Player Discussion: Patrik Laine Part VII: Eliitti! - Mod Warning Post #79

[Ippenator]

Balancing your offense is a good thing, you just have to find a way to keep his minutes up

Otherwise a pretty good approach, but it’s also good to remember that if you have a world class shooter in your team, you should try to make it sure that this shot can be used as well as possible. Which would mean that he would get to play with a very well playmaking offensive minded center. Little is definitely not that kind of a center, at least at the moment. Maybe Roslovic could be a center like that in addition to the obvious Scheifele. But we will probably never know, as long as Maurice is the coach...

 

[csk]

Otherwise a pretty good approach, but it’s also good to remember that if you have a world class shooter in your team, you should try to make it sure that this shot can be used as well as possible. Which would mean that he would get to play with a very well playmaking offensive minded center. Little is definitely not that kind of a center, at least at the moment. Maybe Roslovic could be a center like that in addition to the obvious Scheifele. But we will probably never know, as long as Maurice is the coach...

I don' disagree, I was more responding to the notion that 1st liners have to play on the 1st line

 

[Festinator]

Everyone should watch this video (when they get the time) from the 10 minute mark (I've timestamped it so it should start there):


To the 11:00 mark of this video


This encompasses the time last season where ELL got put together for the first time, and it's the period of time everyone seems to forget about. As you can see from these videos, they make many good passes to each other and establish zone time frequently, both on 5 on 5 and on the PP (trigger warning, this was when Laine was on "PP2"). If they did it before for an extended period of time, they should be capable of doing it again. So saying things like "Ehlers and Laine have no chemistry" or "Little can never find Laine" are simply not true. They have done it before plenty of times, but for whatever reason are not doing it now. They need to go back to what they were doing here.

Also x2, later on in the second video also shows how well Perreault-Scheifele-Laine performed as a line. They were dominant to the levels that CSW are right now.

Also shoutout to Hoikinaittii for all the work he does on youtube. These videos are great for looking back on.

 

[grieves]

Everyone should watch this video (when they get the time) from the 10 minute mark (I've timestamped it so it should start there):

This encompasses the time last season where ELL got put together for the first time, and it's the period of time everyone seems to forget about. As you can see from these videos, they make many good passes to each other and establish zone time frequently, both on 5 on 5 and on the PP (trigger warning, this was when Laine was on "PP2"). If they did it before for an extended period of time, they should be capable of doing it again. So saying things like "Ehlers and Laine have no chemistry" or "Little can never find Laine" are simply not true. They have done it before plenty of times, but for whatever reason are not doing it now. They need to go back to what they were doing here.

Also x2, later on in the second video also shows how well Perreault-Scheifele-Laine performed as a line. They were dominant to the levels that CSW are right now.

Also shoutout to Hoikinaittii for all the work he does on youtube. These videos are great for looking back on.

The problem with highlights is that it does not really give the full picture. I think this might, at least a pretty decent picture.

It's not really even a question of if Little is good with Laine or not (he's not, except defensively). It is a question of having the Holy Grail Of Hockey in your hands with a duo out of this world, but then kind of preferring mom's old coffee mug. The Holy Grail was overhyped anyway and really the holy water should create it's own cup I mean seriously I think it's kind of stupid that we need a certain chalice to make certain water. I want holy water from my tap, and it should not be that much to ask.

And I mean this in the most lighthearted way possible

 

[Festinator]

The problem with highlights is that it does not really give the full picture. I think this might, at least a pretty decent picture.

It's not really even a question of if Little is good with Laine or not (he's not, except defensively). It is a question of having the Holy Grail Of Hockey in your hands with a duo out of this world, but then kind of preferring mom's old coffee mug. The Holy Grail was overhyped anyway and really the holy water should create it's own cup I mean seriously I think it's kind of stupid that we need a certain chalice to make certain water. I want holy water from my tap, and it should not be that much to ask.

And I mean this in the most lighthearted way possible

Okay, but look at them this season. Can't you make the same argument for CSW this season as you are for ESL? Poor Corsi, but scoring a lot. ELL is actually doing far better Corsi wise than CSW (probably due to Little and Laine being better than Scheifele and Connor defensively), and basically in everything else except actually scoring goals. It's not too crazy to believe that the scoring will eventually come, seeing as it did last season.

And yes, I understand the allure of the Scheifele-Laine combo (or Holy Grail as you call it ). I want it too, but idk. Call me a dreamer, I still wanna believe ELL can work.

 

[grieves]

Okay, but look at them this season. Can't you make the same argument for CSW this season as you are for ESL? Poor Corsi, but scoring a lot. ELL is actually doing far better Corsi wise than CSW (probably due to Little and Laine being better than Scheifele and Connor defensively), and basically in everything else except actually scoring goals. It's not too crazy to believe that the scoring will eventually come, seeing as it did last season.

And yes, I understand the allure of the Scheifele-Laine combo (or Holy Grail as you call it ). I want it too, but idk. Call me a dreamer, I still wanna believe ELL can work.

I'm getting the exact same web address from your link as I posted on mine?

 

[Festinator]

I'm getting the exact same web address from your link as I posted on mine.

Lol oops lemme edit that.
Fixed it.

 

[grieves]

View media item 745
View media item 743
(My god, uploading a screenshot is a nightmare.)

Here are what we are talking about for easier access. Let me digest what you said Festinator and get back to you after I don't murder kittens after this ordeal. And here we go ->

ESL were actually not killed in corsi near as bad as the current first line. So to say that ESL were worse defensively is actually quite obviously just the opposite. They were quite even in corsi instead of getting killed. What they did was score very much ABOVE what is expected of them on average, and couple that with being even in corsi, what more can you ask.

If someone more knowledgeable wants to break down the xGoals numbers then for sure go ahead because I'm not knowledgeable. I only know that Laine is producing double the goals that his own personal xGoals number is showing.

The current ELL line is a shutdown line and they are accomplishing their mission no questions asked. It is up to the first line to deliver, but with that corsi the whole situation is almost like a bad joke. Or a strategy.

Legend:

GP = Games Played
TOI = Time On Ice

CF = Corsi For
CA = Corsi Against
C+/- = Corsi plus-minus
CF% = Corsi For percentage
Rel CF% = Relative Corsi For percentage

GF = Goals For
GA = Goals Against
G+/- = Goals Plus-minus
GF% = Goals For percentage
Rel GF% = Relative Goals For percentage

xGF = Expected goals for
xGA = Expected goals against
xG+/- = Expected goals plus-minus
xGF% = Expected goals percentage

PENT = Penalties taken
PEND = Penalties drawn

 

[YWGinYYZ]

(My god, uploading a screenshot is a nightmare.)

OT, but thought I'd let you and others know there's an easier way to deal with screenshots:

Just CTRL+C on your computer (CMD+C if it's a Mac), and CTRL+V into the message. Voila. No upload necessary. I just took a screen shot of your message and I'm pasting it here:

 

[grieves]

OT, but thought I'd let you and others know there's an easier way to deal with screenshots:

Just CTRL+C on your computer (CMD+C if it's a Mac), and CTRL+V into the message. Voila. No upload necessary. I just took a screen shot of your message and I'm pasting it here:

Thanks for the tip. I did not kill anything luckily during my frustration as I know that violence is only a tool for the weak. (Too dumb to talk you down)

 

[Hockeyisl1fe]

He didn't get an assist for Lowry's goal, the f***?

 

[grieves]

He didn't get an assist for Lowry's goal, the ****?

He will.

In ice hockey, an assist is attributed to up to two players of the scoring team who shot, passed or deflected the puck towards the scoring teammate, or touched it in any other way which enabled the goal, meaning that they were "assisting" in the goal. There can be a maximum of two assists per goal. The assists will be awarded in the order of play, with the last player to pass the puck to the goal scorer getting the primary assist and the player who passed it to the primary assister getting the secondary assist.[1] Players who gain an assist will get one point added to their player statistics.[2]

 

[Channelcat]

He will.

In ice hockey, an assist is attributed to up to two players of the scoring team who shot, passed or deflected the puck towards the scoring teammate, or touched it in any other way which enabled the goal, meaning that they were "assisting" in the goal. There can be a maximum of two assists per goal. The assists will be awarded in the order of play, with the last player to pass the puck to the goal scorer getting the primary assist and the player who passed it to the primary assister getting the secondary assist.[1] Players who gain an assist will get one point added to their player statistics.[2]

Well apparently someone doesn't know the rules. Hard to make a better pass than that, what a high skill play.

 

[Festinator]

View media item 745
View media item 743
(My god, uploading a screenshot is a nightmare.)

Here are what we are talking about for easier access. Let me digest what you said Festinator and get back to you after I don't murder kittens after this ordeal. And here we go ->

ESL were actually not killed in corsi near as bad as the current first line. So to say that ESL were worse defensively is actually quite obviously just the opposite. They were quite even in corsi instead of getting killed. What they did was score very much ABOVE what is expected of them on average, and couple that with being even in corsi, what more can you ask.

If someone more knowledgeable wants to break down the xGoals numbers then for sure go ahead because I'm not knowledgeable. I only know that Laine is producing double the goals that his own personal xGoals number is showing.

The current ELL line is a shutdown line and they are accomplishing their mission no questions asked. It is up to the first line to deliver, but with that corsi the whole situation is almost like a bad joke. Or a strategy.

Legend:

GP = Games Played
TOI = Time On Ice

CF = Corsi For
CA = Corsi Against
C+/- = Corsi plus-minus
CF% = Corsi For percentage
Rel CF% = Relative Corsi For percentage

GF = Goals For
GA = Goals Against
G+/- = Goals Plus-minus
GF% = Goals For percentage
Rel GF% = Relative Goals For percentage

xGF = Expected goals for
xGA = Expected goals against
xG+/- = Expected goals plus-minus
xGF% = Expected goals percentage

PENT = Penalties taken
PEND = Penalties drawn

Oh yeah, and ESL will be even better this year with the improvements Laine has made to his defensive game. Less time spent in the defensive zone = more time spent in the offensive zone creating chances.

Until we get ESL, I think ELL should stay together. They've produced in the past, they can do it again I'm certain, at least more than recently. I couldn't watch tonight's game so idk how they did tonight, but looks like all 3 of them will get a point.

 

[Psych0dad]

Oh yeah, and ESL will be even better this year with the improvements Laine has made to his defensive game. Less time spent in the defensive zone = more time spent in the offensive zone creating chances.

Until we get ESL, I think ELL should stay together. They've produced in the past, they can do it again I'm certain, at least more than recently. I couldn't watch tonight's game so idk how they did tonight, but looks like all 3 of them will get a point.

They were solid defensively and non-existent offensively. Ehlers and Little keep skating into eachother in offensive zone because they are reading entirely different game.

It's sad to watch. Like getting Michelangelo and Dali to paint your fence red.

 

[Ducky10]

He will.

In ice hockey, an assist is attributed to up to two players of the scoring team who shot, passed or deflected the puck towards the scoring teammate, or touched it in any other way which enabled the goal, meaning that they were "assisting" in the goal. There can be a maximum of two assists per goal. The assists will be awarded in the order of play, with the last player to pass the puck to the goal scorer getting the primary assist and the player who passed it to the primary assister getting the secondary assist.[1] Players who gain an assist will get one point added to their player statistics.[2]

Thanks for posting this, I've always wondered what an assist was........

 

[JetsFan815]

He has been given the assist on the Lowry goal in addition to Myers as per the latest boxscore on nhl.com

 

[Ducky10]

They were solid defensively and non-existent offensively. Ehlers and Little keep skating into eachother in offensive zone because they are reading entirely different game.

It's sad to watch. Like getting Michelangelo and Dali to paint your fence red.

Little and Laine had decent games, Ehlers decided to play by himself most of the night. Little was in good spots much of the game, he made a nice cross ice pass right on Ehlers tape that he couldn't handle.

The Lowry goal was started by a good cycle from Laine and Ehlers.

 

[Artorius Horus T]

Laine shouldn't play with Ehlers

1) Ehlers has gotten cocky and too confident
about his goal scoring ability,all he ever does now
is shoot the puck

2) Almost zero chemistry between these two on the ice,
they might be best of buds off the ice,but that doesn't
show on the ice,much

3) Scheifele&Laine has tons of chemistry on the ice

 

[Zhamnov5GoalGame]

Things looked pretty good tonight.
Little had good burst and scored on a self created breakaway.
Laine did great work to create Lowry's goal and handled the puck very well in many tight spots.
He should have had 1 goal and 2 assists.
His pass across to Connor looked like a sure goal if it made it.
Ehlers had a couple of opportunities to set up Laine.

Overall pretty good.
6 game pt streak for our man and another win for the Jets

 

[DoingItCoolKiwi]

Dude needs to get more selfish. He passes almost every time on an oddman rush, and so far the results havent been good

 

[Asiantuntija]

Copp or Lowry to the second line. Ehlers was really bad tonight, way too much one-man show. I don't know what he was thinking. Really bad game.

 

[Ippenator]

I know that Ehlers fans don’t like this, but unfortunately I have to say that Ehlers is not a very good player, although his skating is really out of this world. But hockey is still so much more than just skating. I honestly don’t see much more than fabulous skating in his game. He is really going like crazy everywhere with and without the puck, but smart things that he does are really honestly very rare. He can use his skating very nicely when he gets some space, but unfortunately that is all the good stuff that I see in his game really.

He seems pretty selfish also, and is not at all really a good playmaker, as even his pass quality is pretty bad when he after all decides to pass, instead of blasting the puck blindly somewhere high or wide. And he is losing still way too much battles. The puck really dies to his stick most of the time and he doesn’t seem capable of doing any real good and creative plays anymore.

Maybe it has to do also with the bad chemistry in ELL, but I’m not really completely buying it, as so far I have seen really no kind of chemistry even between Laine and Ehlers, so it is not just about Little with them. The selfishness and the blinders on his eyes are what are bothering me the most about Ehlers. This kind of player would go well only with a very good playmaking center, whom could feed him to use his speed on the rush constantly, but there is absolutely no use to play him with one of the best shooters in the game, as both, Ehlers’s speed and Laine’s shot become completely misused in this way.

I just simply can’t understand why some people seriously think that Laine and Ehlers have great chemistry on the ice. And I seriously doubt if they are going to have good chemistry in the future even off the ice, if Ehlers keeps playing as selfish way as he has been doing. I think the kid really could use a wake up call.

 

[JetsFan815]

I know that Ehlers fans don’t like this, but unfortunately I have to say that Ehlers is not a very good player, although his skating is really out of this world. But hockey is still so much more than just skating. I honestly don’t see much more than fabulous skating in his game. He is really going like crazy everywhere with and without the puck, but smart things that he does are really honestly very rare. He can use his skating very nicely when he gets some space, but unfortunately that is all the good stuff that I see in his game really.

He seems pretty selfish also, and is not at all really a good playmaker, as even his pass quality is pretty bad when he after all decides to pass, instead of blasting the puck blindly somewhere high or wide. And he is losing still way too much battles. The puck really dies to his stick most of the time and he doesn’t seem capable of doing any real good and creative plays anymore.

Maybe it has to do also with the bad chemistry in ELL, but I’m not really completely buying it, as so far I have seen really no kind of chemistry even between Laine and Ehlers, so it is not just about Little with them. The selfishness and the blinders on his eyes are what are bothering me the most about Ehlers. This kind of player would go well only with a very good playmaking center, whom could feed him to use his speed on the rush constantly, but there is absolutely no use to play him with one of the best shooters in the game, as both, Ehlers’s speed and Laine’s shot become completely misused in this way.

I just simply can’t understand why some people seriously think that Laine and Ehlers have great chemistry on the ice. And I seriously doubt if they are going to have good chemistry in the future even off the ice, if Ehlers keeps playing as selfish way as he has been doing. I think the kid really could use a wake up call.

 

[Patrik Barkov]

I know that Ehlers fans don’t like this, but unfortunately I have to say that Ehlers is not a very good player, although his skating is really out of this world. But hockey is still so much more than just skating. I honestly don’t see much more than fabulous skating in his game. He is really going like crazy everywhere with and without the puck, but smart things that he does are really honestly very rare. He can use his skating very nicely when he gets some space, but unfortunately that is all the good stuff that I see in his game really.

He seems pretty selfish also, and is not at all really a good playmaker, as even his pass quality is pretty bad when he after all decides to pass, instead of blasting the puck blindly somewhere high or wide. And he is losing still way too much battles. The puck really dies to his stick most of the time and he doesn’t seem capable of doing any real good and creative plays anymore.

Maybe it has to do also with the bad chemistry in ELL, but I’m not really completely buying it, as so far I have seen really no kind of chemistry even between Laine and Ehlers, so it is not just about Little with them. The selfishness and the blinders on his eyes are what are bothering me the most about Ehlers. This kind of player would go well only with a very good playmaking center, whom could feed him to use his speed on the rush constantly, but there is absolutely no use to play him with one of the best shooters in the game, as both, Ehlers’s speed and Laine’s shot become completely misused in this way.

I just simply can’t understand why some people seriously think that Laine and Ehlers have great chemistry on the ice. And I seriously doubt if they are going to have good chemistry in the future even off the ice, if Ehlers keeps playing as selfish way as he has been doing. I think the kid really could use a wake up call.

I feel like this a bit of an overreaction based on a few games. Ehlers is the best option to use as Laine's winger IMO. From time to time they show brilliant chemistry. Just need to be more consistent together and rely more on Laine when it comes to finishing the play.