Prospect Info: Patrick Harper, C, Avon Old Farms, 138th Overall

[Flgatorguy87]

They won because of speed. I haven't really seen anyone say differently. Poile said specifically that was the case.

Why because something use to be a big part of the game does it mean that it will be a continued part of it? The game sure looks to be speeding up to me, things change, just ask the NFL, NBA, NCAA, or any other major sport.

 

[thecloser]

Eckholm and Grandberg will never utter a peep at somebody who runs Rinne or wrecks Forsberg. Rinne got bumped all over the place in the playoffs. Sharks didn't let anybody do that to Jones. Height doesn't matter all the time, other than it would be nice to not specialize in / fixate on 5'7" - 5'11" guys.

Your Yonkman thing is old....about 10 years lol. Though when he was available to the Preds and Scott Walker or Scott Nichol were our tough guys.....he would have been useful.

Ekholm quite often stands up for his teammates.

 

[triggrman]

Yup.

 

[Adz]

Ekholm quite often stands up for his teammates.

Yes, he's quite the hothead. I like that about him.

 

[desmondtootoo]

Hey, I like Eckholm. He is a very good defensive Dman, and get down there on O too. He may also get upset when somebody is mean to a Pred. But his 44 PIM's do not a "peacemaker" make.

Yeah, the traditional enforcer / fighter has been weeded out.

But guys who will still "do something about it" are are still out there. Granted, they're about 50 pounds smaller and better skaters than they used to be. But they're still out there, and we don't have any. And this makes a difference in the playoffs, and the IR during the season.

It's why the Oilers go out and sign Lucic. To stop the mistreatment of their young guns.

 

[thecloser]

Hey, I like Eckholm. He is a very good defensive Dman, and get down there on O too. He may also get upset when somebody is mean to a Pred. But his 44 PIM's do not a "peacemaker" make.

Yeah, the traditional enforcer / fighter has been weeded out.

But guys who will still "do something about it" are are still out there. Granted, they're about 50 pounds smaller and better skaters than they used to be. But they're still out there, and we don't have any. And this makes a difference in the playoffs, and the IR during the season.

It's why the Oilers go out and sign Lucic. To stop the mistreatment of their young guns.

so who is out there that you suggest we go out and get? The problem is, the guys that are available that play that role are available because 1.) they can't skate or keep up with today's NHL. 2.) can't score to save their life, even if that means putting 7-8 pucks in the net a year. 3.) are they worth taking a roster spot away from the guys we have that are NHL ready?

That's why we re-signed Cody Bass. To play that role. And he is about as incompetent a goal scorer and not the greatest skater we can afford to ice without taking too many games away from other guys.

 

[PredsV82]

don't bother using logic or reason with ColdChi.. I mean desmond...

Weber was tough but was never a "don't screw my teammate of I'll kill you" type, because he was to valuable too use as a goon.

Nystrom was the type of player he thinks we need, but he became such a liability that it was worse to put him out there than it was to take our chances with less grit.

As you mention, you can really only afford to ice one guy like that on a given night and we have Bass for nights when we will obviously need someone like that and Austin Watson is likely going to also show that role when he gets his chance in the lineup.

There are only so many Lucic types in the league. Most teams have a Cody Bass type and thats pretty much it.

We are no better or no worse than the rest of the league. We had a relatively injury free year this season but it wasn't because we hd a squad of tough guys protecting our players. We had the same big guys back in the lockout season of 12-13 and we were decimated by injures. Any attempt to correlate lack of injuries with the presence of tough guys is anecdotal at best.

 

[desmondtootoo]

The Oilers signed Lucic for a reason. That is all.

You can excuse away the fact that it's still important in hockey, in 101 creative ways.

I don't purport to know more than the Oilers front office, and neither should any casual fan on the internet.

The league still employs Dorsett, Neil, Wilson, Simmonds, McLeod, Roussel, Abdelkader, Martin, Kassian, Borowiecki, Bollig, Tootoo, Prout, White, Farnham, Petrovic, Maroon, Rinaldo, Hendricks, Thorburn, Z Smith, Lucic, Malone, Manson, and a lot more. And they don't do it because they know it's totally unnecessary, as some guys on the internet would tell them.

 

[NSH615]

The Oilers signed Lucic for a reason. That is all.

You can excuse away the fact that it's still important in hockey, in 101 creative ways.

I don't purport to know more than the Oilers front office, and neither should any casual fan on the internet.

The league still employs Dorsett, Neil, Wilson, Simmonds, McLeod, Roussel, Abdelkader, Martin, Kassian, Borowiecki, Bollig, Tootoo, Prout, White, Farnham, Petrovic, Maroon, Rinaldo, Hendricks, Thorburn, Z Smith, Lucic, Malone, Manson, and a lot more. And they don't do it because they know it's totally unnecessary, as some guys on the internet would tell them.

And the team still has Bitetto, Bass, and even Sissons and Fisher have been known to stand up for teammates. You do not need 5.

 

[Flgatorguy87]

The Oilers signed Lucic for a reason. That is all.

You can excuse away the fact that it's still important in hockey, in 101 creative ways.

I don't purport to know more than the Oilers front office, and neither should any casual fan on the internet.

The league still employs Dorsett, Neil, Wilson, Simmonds, McLeod, Roussel, Abdelkader, Martin, Kassian, Borowiecki, Bollig, Tootoo, Prout, White, Farnham, Petrovic, Maroon, Rinaldo, Hendricks, Thorburn, Z Smith, Lucic, Malone, Manson, and a lot more. And they don't do it because they know it's totally unnecessary, as some guys on the internet would tell them.

Several of those guys were healthy scratches last year or bought out. I don't think those are really helping your argument.

Simmer is a totally different player. Throwing him in with some of those guys is insulting.

 

[Filip Forceberg]

The Oilers signed Lucic for a reason. That is all.

I'm sorry, are you saying David Poile should take notes from an organization that hasn't made the playoffs in a decade?

 

[desmondtootoo]

No, I'm saying that Poile and Trotz traditionally avoided having any toughness, and Poile continues it today. (for a couple of years they did have a tough team, when they had less talent. The "9-fight-game" against DET comes to mind)

And even though the fighting and hitting is way down, it's still part of hockey to have some tough guys to protect your stars, and amp it up in the playoffs. But we're still in the bottom 5 for it.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying !

 

[Filip Forceberg]

No, I'm saying that Poile and Trotz traditionally avoided having any toughness, and Poile continues it today. (for a couple of years they did have a tough team, when they had less talent. The "9-fight-game" against DET comes to mind)

And even though the fighting and hitting is way down, it's still part of hockey to have some tough guys to protect your stars, and amp it up in the playoffs. But we're still in the bottom 5 for it.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying !

Having a heavyweight fighter just really isn't important anymore. Look at the 4 teams who made it to the conference finals this year and tell me who fits your description from those rosters.

 

[King Weber]

apparently Harper just had a 7-point night, including 5 goals. Just an exhibition game, but still impressive nonetheless.

Fabbro had a goal too.

http://dailyfreepress.com/2016/10/01/pat-harper-freshman-class-lead-terriers-win-prince-edward-island/

 

[CMDEADLY]

http://www.silversevensens.com/2014/3/25/5545016/the-anatomy-of-a-cup-contender Outside of the Kings, size has no correlation with winning the Stanley Cup or going far in the playoffs, keep it up with the baseless claims.

 

[nomorekids]

apparently Harper just had a 7-point night, including 5 goals. Just an exhibition game, but still impressive nonetheless.

Fabbro had a goal too.

http://dailyfreepress.com/2016/10/01/pat-harper-freshman-class-lead-terriers-win-prince-edward-island/

Just to point out, this is pretty much the class of NCAA hockey playing a CIS team. Imagine Alabama playing say, ETSU. With that said, even in exhibition, all you can do is play who is in front of you, and Harper scoring 5 goals is better than 0 goals.

 

[RoughEmUp]

Was at this game Saturday night. Total mismatch in talent levels. Nonetheless, Harper is in a great position to put up huge numbers. He looked quick and sure of himself. Very slick. He will be playing with Clayton Keller, Kiefer Bellows, Charlie McAvoy, Dante Fabbro, and a bunch of other NHL draft picks. I'll be interested o see how he holds up against stout defenses from Lowell, Providence, etc.

 

[Gnashville]

Still got a bad Vesey taste. College kids who excell will likely be choosing their team, not vice versa. He and Fabbro have been drafted, can't be signed and a Preds will have be play outstanding, have openings for their positions and promise ice time at the NHL level to retain them, all while dolling out considerable time and attention to them for up to 4 years. What has happened is a realization by their agents of the considerable advantage this loophole has become. It was virtually ignored for a long time but Vesey case has garnered much attention.
Given comparable performance, Vesey will make mucho more money in NY than in Nashville.

ditto
I could care less about this prospect or any of our other college prospects. It is stupid to draft college kids outside the first round and very risky to even then. If he turns out to be great then he's headed to free agency and if he is a bust then it's a wasted pick either way. Fabbro is the only one that works since he was a Predators' fan but it's only like a 20% chance he signs, but at least we get the 47th pick in 2020. We should focus on the CHL and European kids from now on heck we already signed Girard
so there is no chance of him pulling a Vesey.

 

[RoughEmUp]

Wow, are you guys scarred.
Pretty dumb, imo, to dismiss college prospects. But good luck with that. Euros are much more predictable and dependable.

 

[Roman Yoshi]

Wow, are you guys scarred.
Pretty dumb, imo, to dismiss college prospects. But good luck with that. Euros are much more predictable and dependable.

Kinda are really... at least about the same.

 

[nomorekids]

ditto
I could care less about this prospect or any of our other college prospects. It is stupid to draft college kids outside the first round and very risky to even then. If he turns out to be great then he's headed to free agency and if he is a bust then it's a wasted pick either way. Fabbro is the only one that works since he was a Predators' fan but it's only like a 20% chance he signs, but at least we get the 47th pick in 2020. We should focus on the CHL and European kids from now on heck we already signed Girard
so there is no chance of him pulling a Vesey.

This may be a legit concern for Harper, who is a candidate to stay all 4 years, but Fabbro likely doesn't stay longer than his sophomore year. To use the Vesey situation -- something that happens say, 1 time out of 50...to dismiss NCAA prospects out of hand is short-sighted and ignorant.

 

[Drake744]

Around 30% of NHL players spent time playing in the NCAA. We aren't the only team dealing with the prospect of a college player going the UFA route, and just because we got burned by Vesey doesn't mean we should quit drafting guys heading for the NCAA. A player going to free agency after school is the exception rather than the rule, and it's certainly not some widespread epidemic that some may make it out to be.

 

[Roman Yoshi]

I don't think we should stop drafting college players, but to imply Euro players are somehow less reliable than NCAA players is a bit far fetched.

In fact, I would argue up until 2010, you were probably better off drafting Euros. Now, things have changed a. It recently with Eichel, Gaudreau, Larkin and The Ghost Bear all coming out of the NCAA program. Didn't always used to be that deep and talented.

And yes I know Backes, Toews and Parise went through the NCAA system.

 

[triggrman]

I don't think we should stop drafting college players, but to imply Euro players are somehow less reliable than NCAA players is a bit far fetched.

In fact, I would argue up until 2010, you were probably better off drafting Euros. Now, things have changed a. It recently with Eichel, Gaudreau, Larkin and The Ghost Bear all coming out of the NCAA program. Didn't always used to be that deep and talented.

And yes I know Backes, Toews and Parise went through the NCAA system.

We've been burnt more by Euro's than we have college players. In fact, we've done well with college players.

Suter
Smith
Wilson
Geoffrion
Dougherty

Only Vesey was not signed.

On the flip side, we've lost way more than that to the KHL or other Euro leagues.
And then there's the Radulov, which was way worse than Vesey.

 

[KurtAngle]

I have to agree mostly with desmondtootoo.

I don't have a stat sheet but I don't see how anyone can deny Poile has a thing for small guys, like Blum, Ellis, and so many others. He drafted Seth Jones but I think he just had to at that place in the draft.

I don't think size is everything, but bigger guys who can skate are usually much better than tiny guys. As squirrelly as San Jose is, with their size, when they were on their game it was no match, like in game 7.

This is one of the thing I fear about losing Weber. Even though Subban is more dynamic, Weber was about our only truly physical force since Fisher is basically a part time guy at this point in his career.