Pat Roy's shutouts

[arrbez]

I was just looking over the all-time shutout list, and I was very surprised that Roy wasn't even in the top 10. He's actually #14. I realize some players are there because of the era they played in, but Roy isn't even really close to his contemporaries like Belfour or Brodeur, and trails Hasek who's played nearly 400 less games.

Here's the link

I just found it odd that the leader in wins and games played wasn't even really close in shutouts. What do you make of it? Just luck?

Click to read more...

 

[Hyped]

I was just looking over the all-time shutout list, and I was very surprised that Roy wasn't even in the top 10. He's actually #14. I realize some players are there because of the era they played in, but Roy isn't even really close to his contemporaries like Belfour or Brodeur, and trails Hasek who's played nearly 400 less games.

Here's the link

I just found it odd. What do you make of it? Just luck?

Half his games were played during the high-flying 80's and early '90s. Hasek never came into his own until the league became a defense orientated one. Same can be said for Belfour, Brodeur, etc...

 

[Sens Rule]

Roy is however the alltime leader in playoff shutouts at 22.

http://www.hhof.com/html/r&rPSO.shtml

 

[Hasbro]

The contemporaries ahead of him played for trapping teams too.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

I just found it odd that the leader in wins and games played wasn't even really close in shutouts. What do you make of it? Just luck?

Era.

 

[KOVALEV10*]

Era.

How come Roy being on much better teams then Hasek had way less shutouts then the dominator in the 90-s and early 2000-s then?

 

[Draft Guru]

How come Roy being on much better teams then Hasek had way less shutouts then the dominator in the 90-s and early 2000-s then?

Trap.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

How come Roy being on much better teams then Hasek had way less shutouts then the dominator in the 90-s and early 2000-s then?

Era.

Am I not saying it right, or are you not reading it right?

 

[KOVALEV10*]

Era.

Am I not saying it right, or are you not reading it right?

Sorry but you dont make any sense. SINCE HASEK PLAYED DURING THE SAME ERA AS ROY COULD YOU EXPLAIN THE LARGE GAP BETWEEN THE TWO? WHAT'S ERA GOT TO DO WITH IT?

 

[Hasbro]

Sorry but you dont make any sense. SINCE HASEK PLAYED DURING THE SAME ERA AS ROY COULD YOU EXPLAIN THE LARGE GAP BETWEEN THE TWO? WHAT'S ERA GOT TO DO WITH IT?

2 is a large gap?

 

[KOVALEV10*]

2 is a large gap?

From 1993-94 where Hasek became a starting goalie until 01-02 when both goalies were in the league at the same time here are the number of shutouts both goalies got.

From 93-94 to 01-02
Roy: 42 shutouts
Hasek: 60 shutouts


So yes it is a huge gap!

 

[arrbez]

well, my oppinion on the matter is that Hasek was just the better goalie.

I'm surprised that Belfour is so far ahead of Roy though. They did essentially play in the same era and are the exact same age. If you take the shutouts from Belfour's rookie year ('91) to Roys retirement ('03), it's 65 to 54 for Belfour.

It's just weird to me. Roy may go down as the most clutch goalie of all time, but it looks like he may have been a little more vulnerable to the softie from time to time...<insert Grant Fuhr quote>

 

[Hasbro]

ASlot of it has to do with Roy playing for a higher scoring team and Belfour and Hasek playing for teams predicated on defense.

 

[KOVALEV10*]

ASlot of it has to do with Roy playing for a higher scoring team and Belfour and Hasek playing for teams predicated on defense.

Well the sabres d was nothing to talk about and they used to get cough on breakaways and odd man rushes almost every game.

 

[Adriatic]

Roy didn't care about shutouts or regular season stats..he was more worried about playoff success. When you win a stanley cup and a Conn Smythe by the age of 20 your priorities tend to change when the regular season comes along. Goalies like Hasek and Belfour never won cups until they were in their mid or late 30's, they had to do well in the regular season.

And can you imagine if from '86 to 94 would have been as defensive oriented as the mid and late 90's was..his career shutout total would have been drastically different.

 

[arrbez]

Roy didn't care about shutouts or regular season stats..he was more worried about playoff success. When you win a stanley cup and a Conn Smythe by the age of 20 your priorities tend to change when the regular season comes along. Goalies like Hasek and Belfour never won cups until they were in their mid or late 30's, they had to do well in the regular season.

So...Roy just decided not to play his best?

That's a bit of an insult to Roy, and I find it hard to believe

 

[BM67]

From 1993-94 where Hasek became a starting goalie until 01-02 when both goalies were in the league at the same time here are the number of shutouts both goalies got.

From 93-94 to 01-02
Roy: 42 shutouts
Hasek: 60 shutouts


So yes it is a huge gap!

18 goals over 9 years is not that huge. The difference between their GAA over that time is about 111 goals (based on Hasek's minutes), Hasek 2.17, Roy 2.39. The difference between their ENG totals is 14, Roy 38, Hasek 24.

 

[David Puddy]

How come Roy being on much better teams then Hasek had way less shutouts then the dominator in the 90-s and early 2000-s then?

Because Hasek was a much better goalie during that period.

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

well, my oppinion on the matter is that Hasek was just the better goalie.

I'm surprised that Belfour is so far ahead of Roy though. They did essentially play in the same era and are the exact same age. If you take the shutouts from Belfour's rookie year ('91) to Roys retirement ('03), it's 65 to 54 for Belfour.

It's just weird to me. Roy may go down as the most clutch goalie of all time, but it looks like he may have been a little more vulnerable to the softie from time to time...<insert Grant Fuhr quote>

Watching Roy for years something he seemed to do a lot more in the regular season that you didn't see a lot of in the playoffs is Roy wondering. I'm not saying this is the reason Roy has such a small amount of shutouts compared to his piers, just that I think it's a big reason why Roy was a better playoff goalie, he did less wondering and more goaltending.

St. Patrick also wasn't the greatest at holding shutouts, it would almost seem as if once it came close to shutout time a weak goal would go in, or the defense would completely implode, the Avs were a brutal shutout squad even back in the day.

 

[hockeyfan125]

Because Hasek was a much better goalie during that period.

ding ding ding!
We have a correct answer.

 

[Cake or Death]

I was just looking over the all-time shutout list, and I was very surprised that Roy wasn't even in the top 10. He's actually #14. I realize some players are there because of the era they played in, but Roy isn't even really close to his contemporaries like Belfour or Brodeur, and trails Hasek who's played nearly 400 less games.

Here's the link

I just found it odd that the leader in wins and games played wasn't even really close in shutouts. What do you make of it? Just luck?

I do not know what to make of the shutouts, but it just never struck me as something that was important to Roy. The bottom line is, he won. Winning seemed foremost on his mind and he is WAY OUT THERE ahead of the pack:

1. Roy - 551 wins
2. Belfour - 456
3. Sawchuk - 447
4. Plante - 435
5. Brodeur - 431

That is a gigantic gap. Insane.

I've watched Roy since day one when he carried the Habs on his back to a Stanley Cup. They Habs didn't have a terrible team or anything that season, but they had no business winning the Cup that year. Roy was beyond spectacular in the playoffs, and that was the single most unreal goaltending performance I have ever seen in my life. I have the games on tape, and I still watch them in awe. Roy won the Conn Smythe that year and went on to win two more (the only three-time winner in NHL history). So again, I am not sure what to make of the shutouts with Roy, but I'm not sure it matters. Roy won, and he won often.

The sick thing is, as far as ahead of everyone in wins Roy was when he retired, he could still play. In his final season he had 35 wins and a 2.18 goals against. The grotesque thing about that is, if he played another two seasons he would have, in all likelihood, eclipsed 600 wins.

What does one even say to that?

 

[arrbez]

Watching Roy for years something he seemed to do a lot more in the regular season that you didn't see a lot of in the playoffs is Roy wondering. I'm not saying this is the reason Roy has such a small amount of shutouts compared to his piers, just that I think it's a big reason why Roy was a better playoff goalie, he did less wondering and more goaltending.

St. Patrick also wasn't the greatest at holding shutouts, it would almost seem as if once it came close to shutout time a weak goal would go in, or the defense would completely implode, the Avs were a brutal shutout squad even back in the day.

hmmm...never noticed that bit about wandering out of the crease

maybe even he knew he was brutal at playing the puck and decided to only take adventures in the regular season, lol

 

[KOVALEV10*]

I do not know what to make of the shutouts, but it just never struck me as something that was important to Roy. The bottom line is, he won. Winning seemed foremost on his mind and he is WAY OUT THERE ahead of the pack:

1. Roy - 551 wins
2. Belfour - 456
3. Sawchuk - 447
4. Plante - 435
5. Brodeur - 431

That is a gigantic gap. Insane.

I've watched Roy since day one when he carried the Habs on his back to a Stanley Cup. They Habs didn't have a terrible team or anything that season, but they had no business winning the Cup that year. Roy was beyond spectacular in the playoffs, and that was the single most unreal goaltending performance I have ever seen in my life. I have the games on tape, and I still watch them in awe. Roy won the Conn Smythe that year and went on to win two more (the only three-time winner in NHL history). So again, I am not sure what to make of the shutouts with Roy, but I'm not sure it matters. Roy won, and he won often.

The sick thing is, as far as ahead of everyone in wins Roy was when he retired, he could still play. In his final season he had 35 wins and a 2.18 goals against. The grotesque thing about that is, if he played another two seasons he would have, in all likelihood, eclipsed 600 wins.

What does one even say to that?

Wins are great and all but it doesn't consider the teams they were on, the defense in front of them as well as the offense. If Hasek were on the same teams as Roy dont tell me he wouldn't have won as much. Their win per game ratio is almost the same yet Hasek played on bad teams most of his career. All Roy fans know how to support their hero is by always bringing up wins. Hasek owns him in GAA and Save % in both season and playoffs and judging by that if he were on Roy's teams his teams woul'dve won by an even larger gap! Roy's career is overrated. People only remember the good about him but fail to realise that he was a bad 5 hole goal allowing machine and had some brutal seasons. Ever since Hasek started as a starter he has never had a brutal since and every year almost lead the league in save % and won the vezina. He has also done something no other goalie has done and that's win two hart trophies and pearson trophies and he did it 2 years in a row. I truly believe Hart and Pearson trophies for a goalie are way harder to win then the Conn Smythe. Only 2 goalies in the last 25 years have won a Hart and none has won a pearson. (Theodore is the other one who won) To win the Hart and Pearson you have to be the best player or a much longer stretch then 20-25 games. You have to be great for 65-70 games and you're competing with a lot more great players who have a chance at it then just 2 or 3 players that are left in the finals. Also the only reason Hasek didn't win a cup was that his teams just couldnt score a freakin goal. In 99 playoffs where he got them to the finals, any game where he allowed 2 goals or more they lost. If that's not unbelivable then I dont know what is. That's why Roy comes in at number 2 for but I agree that shutouts dont mean jack.

Sorry for the long post.

 

[Cake or Death]

Wins are great and all but it doesn't consider the teams they were on, the defense in front of them as well as the offense. If Hasek were on the same teams as Roy dont tell me he wouldn't have won as much. Their win per game ratio is almost the same yet Hasek played on bad teams most of his career. All Roy fans know how to support their hero is by always bringing up wins. Hasek owns him in GAA and Save % in both season and playoffs and judging by that if he were on Roy's teams his teams woul'dve won by an even larger gap! Roy's career is overrated. People only remember the good about him but fail to realise that he was a bad 5 hole goal allowing machine and had some brutal seasons. Ever since Hasek started as a starter he has never had a brutal since and every year almost lead the league in save % and won the vezina. He has also done something no other goalie has done and that's win two hart trophies and pearson trophies and he did it 2 years in a row. I truly believe Hart and Pearson trophies for a goalie are way harder to win then the Conn Smythe. Only 2 goalies in the last 25 years have won a Hart and none has won a pearson. (Theodore is the other one who won) To win the Hart and Pearson you have to be the best player or a much longer stretch then 20-25 games. You have to be great for 65-70 games and you're competing with a lot more great players who have a chance at it then just 2 or 3 players that are left in the finals. Also the only reason Hasek didn't win a cup was that his teams just couldnt score a freakin goal. In 99 playoffs where he got them to the finals, any game where he allowed 2 goals or more they lost. If that's not unbelivable then I dont know what is. That's why Roy comes in at number 2 for but I agree that shutouts dont mean jack.

Sorry for the long post.

When you say, "All Roy fans know how to support their hero is by always bringing up wins," what are you talking about exactly? I am not a Roy fan, he is egotistical as all hell and I find him annoying. Also, that 1986 playoff run that I referred to, he eliminated my team in it. Even still, I give credit where it is due and the guy was a great goalie.

Anyway, you are assuming a lot man. This thread is about Roy, and I responded directly to that. Nothing more to it really. What you are bringing up Hasek for, I have no clue. He is another great goalie for sure. But last I checked, this thread wasn't about him.

I mean do your thing, by all means. But don't start attacking me and saying "All Roy fans know how to support their hero is by always bringing up wins" when I am a Ranger fan.



And when you say Roy comes in number two, I dunno. For me, though, number one all-time is Jacques Plante or Terry Sawchuk.

 

[Caseus]

All Roy fans know how to support their hero is by always bringing up wins. Hasek owns him in GAA and Save % in both season and playoffs and judging by that if he were on Roy's teams his teams woul'dve won by an even larger gap! Roy's career is overrated.

What-ifs and coulda-beens are not a valid basis to determine how good a player was. Results are what matters most. Based on the insane number of awards Hasek got, over such a long period, I'd have to say he was overall the better goaltender.

Based on his performance in the playoffs, Roy is as good or better than any goaltender that ever lived, including Hasek.

Think about it: in the entire history of the National Hockey League, with all the incredible players that have been a part of this great game, only Roy has been the MVP of the playoffs three times. Gretzky didn't do it. Lemieux didn't do it. The Rocket, Howe, Orr, none of them have more than 2.

I'm a huge Hasek fan, and I don't think anyone can deny how good he was (still is! <-- obligatory homerism). But Roy's playoff success cannot be understated.