Parise/Zajack Vs. Carter/Richards...

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TJF

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zeker said:
I have to say that I think Carter is probably the most overrated prospect in the game.

I know everyone loves him and all, but when you look at the hard stats, his offensive numbers since being drafted simply do not project to first line numbers in the NHL. You can dismiss the numbers all you want - but it's a simple fact that his actual production since being drafted simply has not been where it was expected to be. His junior numbers of around 35gls/70pts were certainly impressive for a 17 year old yet to be drafted.....but the fact is those numbers have stayed at the same level as a 18 and 19 year old, and he has fallen behind the pack in terms of offensive production.

Personally, while I think they are similar prospects, I'd take Richards over Carter myself.

That being said, Parise and Zajac are nothing to go crazy about either, and I'd probably take the philly pair.

I think the chances of any of these players becoming legit first liners is probably pretty small.

Carter's numbers have been bad because he's been stuck on a bad team, he really doesn't have much offensive help in Sault Ste Marie. But if those number scare you I recomend you take a look at Rick Nash's junior numbers who like Carter didn't play for the greatest team and look what Nash did this season.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php3?pid[]=55239
 

adurn

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In Carter's defense, he really doesn't play with anyone relatively close to his talent level with the Greyhounds. The next leading scorer after Carter(74 pts) is Tyler Kennedy at 57 points in 61 games.

To accurately gauge Carter's potential, I think you should look at how he has performed at the World Juniors. I think he's the second leading Canadian goal scorer behind Lindros.

Stats in the CHL are not the most important thing when projecting a player's future. If it was, Brad Moran would have become a perennial all-star in the NHL based on his WHL stats alone.
 

Asiaoil

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zeker said:
I have to say that I think Carter is probably the most overrated prospect in the game.

I know everyone loves him and all, but when you look at the hard stats, his offensive numbers since being drafted simply do not project to first line numbers in the NHL. You can dismiss the numbers all you want - but it's a simple fact that his actual production since being drafted simply has not been where it was expected to be. His junior numbers of around 35gls/70pts were certainly impressive for a 17 year old yet to be drafted.....but the fact is those numbers have stayed at the same level as a 18 and 19 year old, and he has fallen behind the pack in terms of offensive production.

Personally, while I think they are similar prospects, I'd take Richards over Carter myself.

That being said, Parise and Zajac are nothing to go crazy about either, and I'd probably take the philly pair.

I think the chances of any of these players becoming legit first liners is probably pretty small.

One of the most level-headed 9th posts in living memory. Really - Carter may indeed turn into a player - but there is nothing in his junior performance that indicates he will be top line scoring center - nothing at all. Pretty much agree with the rest of it - but Richards was probably the best pick in that he has come the furthest and could potentially have 2nd line upside.
 

Asiaoil

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adurn said:
Stats in the CHL are not the most important thing when projecting a player's future. If it was, Brad Moran would have become a perennial all-star in the NHL based on his WHL stats alone.

Having big stats certainly does not mean a prospect will turn into a great pro player - far from it - but it's a damn rare for a player to put up middling numbers in junior and then light up the pros.
 

DARKSIDE

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Seems like some of you are a bit anti-college. Although, eveyone is entitled to their opinion, some posters stating "Not Even close," sounds a little prejudicial to me. I kind of agree with my Flyer foe and in reality it will be a few more years before we truly know the outcome! Don’t forget that Parise helped the USA win a Gold at the WJC last year and took home the MVP award playing against the Worlds top prospects, icluding Richards and Carter! :D
 

mazmin

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I don't think it's that far off. I'd take the Flyers if I was a GM but both Zajac and Parise have proven themselves as elite players in superior leagues to the OHL this year. Richards and Carter could have both scored A LOT more in their last year in the OHL... but didn't. I think a lot of the Carter hype (that makes people say goofy things like 'Carter = Sundin' is based on his WJC play where he was a man among boys both physically (6'4 200lbs) and literally (oldest in the tourney).

Like I said, I too would take the Flyer kids... but too many people might have to eat crow in a few years by being so damn sure of themselves. MMMMMM crow :rolly:
 

John Flyers Fan

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I've never seen Zajac play, so I won't comment on him, but I certainly wouldn't trade Carter/Richards for Parise/Zajac.

I'm not sure if any team has two prospects that I'd trade Carter/Richards for.
 

mooseOAK*

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John Flyers Fan said:
I've never seen Zajac play, so I won't comment on him, but I certainly wouldn't trade Carter/Richards for Parise/Zajac.

I'm not sure if any team has two prospects that I'd trade Carter/Richards for.
The over-hyping of those two has just reached its zenith with that statement.
 

Garp

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Here
Bowmeester+Horton
Malkin +MAF
Ovechkin + semin
Suter + Weber
...
Fact: at least 5 or 6 teams have a better duo than the flyers
 

John Flyers Fan

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Garp said:
Bowmeester+Horton
Malkin +MAF
Ovechkin + semin
Suter + Weber
...
Fact: at least 5 or 6 teams have a better duo than the flyers

I don't consider J-Bo to be a prospect at all. He's a proven NHL player. I'd also list Horton and Semin as NHL players.

The Flyers aren't in need of a top-flight goalie prospect in Fleury.

The Flyers need the two centers more than the two defenseman in Nashville.


I didn't say they were the best duo out there, but the best duo considering the Flyers needs.
 

Mess

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Jason MacIsaac said:
Or if you match them the way they should be:

Parise > Richards
Carter >>>>> Zajac
Its interesting that you took Parise and paired him against the lesser of the two Flyers at this stage to get to be able to say that ..
 

mooseOAK*

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John Flyers Fan said:
Name me a team that has two prospects, that also fit the Flyers needs better than those two.
Carter isn't an especially strong player physically which will be a handicap in a conference that has a lot of physical play. When there was a thread comparing Carter to Getzlaf I preferred the latter for that reason.
 

John Flyers Fan

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mooseOAK said:
Carter isn't an especially strong player physically which will be a handicap in a conference that has a lot of physical play. When there was a thread comparing Carter to Getzlaf I preferred the latter for that reason.

I see that you didn't come up with a pair for me.
 

mooseOAK*

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John Flyers Fan said:
I see that you didn't come up with a pair for me.
You haven't even told me what need it is that Carter and Richards address that others couldn't.
 

zeker

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ut if those number scare you I recomend you take a look at Rick Nash's junior numbers who like Carter didn't play for the greatest team and look what Nash did this season.

Rick Nash put up more impressive numbers as a 17 year old than Carter did as a 19 year old.

Carter = Sundin

Right now I'd have to say it's more likely that Carter=Linden.
 

Gags1288

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zeker said:
Rick Nash put up more impressive numbers as a 17 year old than Carter did as a 19 year old.



Right now I'd have to say it's more likely that Carter=Linden.
Watch him play a little more instead of simply looking at his OHL numbers. This is a kid that was the Phantoms best player last year in the AHL playoffs. A kid that is tied for the all-time lead in goals scored by a Canadian in the WJC. So what that he didn't put up 150 points in junior or even 100, he has no one to play with. People like him so much because he's 6-4, he's got great speed, and really good hands. He'll get stronger and at that point, he'll pretty much possess every attribute needed in a top line center. That doesn't necessarily mean he'll be a #1 center in the league, but I think he has a good chance to be.

As for these prospects, they seem to be a very safe group of prospects. I think that Richards is the safest prospect out there in that no matter how his offensive game develops, he'll always have a place in the NHL. I think that Carter and Parise are also very safe guys, Carter because of his size and speed, and Parise because of his vision and hockey sense. I don't know much about Zajac, so I won't really comment on him. And i'd take the flyers prospects at center easily over anyone else in the league.
 

CharlieGirl

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zeker said:
Rick Nash put up more impressive numbers as a 17 year old than Carter did as a 19 year old.

Come again? Not to take anything away from Nash, but that was a stupid comment.

Nash
GP G A PTS +/- PPG
2001-2002 54 32 40 72 -16 1.33
2000-2001 58 31 35 66 -18 1.14


Carter
GP G A PTS +/- PPG
2004-2005 55 34 40 74 20 1.35
2003-2004 57 36 30 66 4 1.16
2002-2003 61 35 36 71 -5 1.16
2001-2002 63 18 17 35 1 0.56
 
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