Parise vs Pouliot + Jacques

[Traktor*]

In 2003 Edmonton traded it's first pick 17th overall to New Jersey for the Devil's
22nd pick and 63rd pick.

New Jersey traded up to draft Zach Parise
Edmonton used the 2 picks to draft Marc-Antoine Pouliot and Jean-Francois Jacques

I know it's still early, but who won this trade? If this has already been discussed I'm sorry but I'm new and couldn't find anything related using "Search"

Click to read more...

 

[misfit]

Finally...something that hasn't been discussed!

Just kidding. There have been lots of discussions on this subject, and I aplaud you for actually trying to search for the topic before hand. Very rare for a new member.

Oh, and welcome to HFBoards.

 

[Debrincat93]

sarcasm, funny...

anyway

id pick pouliot and jaques.. i think MAP will still come out to be a very good player, maybe not a offensive dynamo but solid player

 

[rigger]

I think this season Pouliot will pass Parise in points and ability. He is a very well put together hockey player, like Horcoff with more ability and upside. JFJ will turn into a 10-15 goal scorer in the NHL and be a big time hitter and momentum guy, he is a good skater and is a freight train.

I think edmonton won the trade.

 

[Powdered Toast Man]

I think this season Pouliot will pass Parise in points and ability. He is a very well put together hockey player, like Horcoff with more ability and upside. JFJ will turn into a 10-15 goal scorer in the NHL and be a big time hitter and momentum guy, he is a good skater and is a freight train.

I think edmonton won the trade.

I admit I do not know much about ether Pouliot or Parise but I am pretty sure Parise will be seeing a hell of alot more ice time this year than Pouliot will. Pouliot will likely pass 32 points but if you think Parise is not going to improve himself than you are ether stupid or just a huge Oiler homer. You talk about Pouliot being a well put together player and having high upside, but what the hell is Parise? This guy has clearly first line potential despite his somewhat slow year.

 

[crashlanding]

As a NJ fan, I highly approve of this trade.

Parise had a rough start to the season, after a 10 game look centering the second line his minutes were dropped to about 5-8 a night for the next 25 games. Then he was put on possibly the worst second line in the NHL for the next 20...Parise - Brylin - Marshall.

He then finished the season with Gomez and Gionta and he looked like a different player. He got much stronger on the puck and can win battles.

There's no way you can say Pouliot is better than Parise at this point or even for next season. If you compare what they both did in the AHL, with Parise on one of the worst teams, Parise had 58 points in 73 games in the much tougher lockout AHL while Pouliot had 45 in 65 games last year.

Parise has a rather successful NHL season under his belt while Pouliot may have a hard time seeing ice time for Edmonton. When looking at NJ's needs, we don't need another grinder that can score 15 goals, trust me, we are STOCKED with them. What we needed was a top end prospect and Parise is that for us.

 

[Transported Upstater]

I think it was decent for both teams.

 

[s7ark]

Pouliot will get games. He is at worst our 14th forward and more likely our 13th. Injuries always occur.

Pouliot really impressed the Oilers brass down the stretch last year and would have played 4th line C in the playoffs if he didn't get mono. They will get him in for some games for sure.

I would expect 40-50 games for Pouliot in the NHL this year at least.

I don't see him outpointing Parise this year though. Parise should get close to a full season to work with. And with the Gomez rumors persisting, Parise may even see some top line time.

Oh and Pouliot's 45p in 65 games is a bit misleading. The bigger story is that he took 1/2 the season adjusting to the QMJHL/AHL jump and after that put up much better numbers. He was voted MVP of his team in his rookie year even after his poor start.

 

[USC Trojans]

While most of the comparison is focused on Parise vs. Pouliot, don't forget that JFJ will also be an NHLer. Jacques will also get a few games in this season and if he plays well enough, he just might make Ethan Moreau expendable in the next couple of years.

 

[Transported Upstater]

While most of the comparison is focused on Parise vs. Pouliot, don't forget that JFJ will also be an NHLer. Jacques will also get a few games in this season and if he plays well enough, he just might make Ethan Moreau expendable in the next couple of years.

Take a wild guess who I thought of in that sentence...

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Pouliot has still got a ways to go, however some see Jacques as a 2nd line power forward. If we can get 2 2nd liners out of the deal, and one that can run people through the boards, I think that we did pretty well. Pouliot will likely not get into as many NHL games this season as Parise did last year, because un-like Parise, he has to contend with Schremp and Thoresen for a spot on the roster. The Oilers are insanely deep up the middle, so IMO it's not a fair comparison. That said, as an Oilers fan, I am also very happy with this deal.

 

[hfboardsuser]

He then finished the season with Gomez and Gionta and he looked like a different player.

I think even my grandmother could look good between those two.

 

[HFNHL Canadiens]

Jacques himself will turn into a more valuble asset than Parise will. Offensively, probably not but all around, I think so. Then add Pouliot, I think Edmonton has one this deal, sure they didn't get the most offensive guy but they more than made up for it with all-around ability IMO.

 

[crashlanding]

I think even my grandmother could look good between those two.

How would your grandmother look with Brylin and Marshall?

Why should Pouliot get special attention for his growing pains? Parise had to adjust to a tougher AHL and had an all-star season during the lockout when guys like Staal and Spezza played. Parise can also play wing so he probably would have cracked Edmonton's lineup last year.

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

Parise gets really short changed by some of these Oilers homers. Saying Pouliot and JFJ will be more valuable players then Parise is disrespecting on all levels. Pouliot hasn't produced up untill this point at the NHL level, JFJ hasn't produced at the NHL level, untill one of both start doing that I don't see how the Oilers can say they won this trade.

 

[Cerebral]

Parise gets really short changed by some of these Oilers homers. Saying Pouliot and JFJ will be more valuable players then Parise is disrespecting on all levels. Pouliot hasn't produced up untill this point at the NHL level, JFJ hasn't produced at the NHL level, untill one of both start doing that I don't see how the Oilers can say they won this trade.

How exactly has Parise performed at the NHL level? He put up 32 points last season which left him only tied for 25th in rookie scoring. It's not like he had some monumental campaign that left the two Oilers prospects in the dust.

Pouliot hasn't really gotten a shot at the NHL level but he put up very similar numbers in the AHL to what Parise put up without the help of veterans like MacAmmond and Rheaume (Pouliot was voted the MVP of the Hamilton Bulldogs). Likewise, Pouliot is almost a full year younger than Parise so he put up his numbers in the AHL at a younger age. We should be comparing the numbers Pouliot puts up this year to what Parise did in his first year in the AHL but I doubt Pouliot spends a full season in the minors making it impossible. Add in the fact that Jacques performed very well in Hamilton and Oilers fans have a lot to be happy about.

However, I tend to agree that it's unfair to pick a winner at this point. We won't really know until both Jacques and Pouliot have had their shot at an NHL roster spot. Pouliot has a great chance at making the Oilers this year but he likely won't get the icetime/linemates that Parise got for portions of last season so he likely won't put up big numbers.

However, I still stand by my opinion that I've stated in about one million Parise vs Pouliot + JFJ threads: Parise reminds me a lot of Mike York. I think he'll be a great 2nd line centreman in the league with a solid two-way game but he'll never be a true first liner. He'll be a consistent 60 - 70 point guy but I don't see the 85+ points potential that a lot of people see. I still see Pouliot developing into a Horcoff-like player (with slightly less defence and a bit more in the way of offence) and I see Jacques turning into a very similar player to Mike Grier (hopefully without shoulder problems).

I still believe the Oilers will win this trade (like I did on draft day) but we won't truly know for a number of years.

 

[hfboardsuser]

How would your grandmother look with Brylin and Marshall?

Coudln't do much worse than 20 points and a -15.

Why should Pouliot get special attention for his growing pains?

Shoot, I don't know, because he's a year younger?

Parise gets really short changed by some of these Oilers homers. Saying Pouliot and JFJ will be more valuable players then Parise is disrespecting on all levels. Pouliot hasn't produced up untill this point at the NHL level, JFJ hasn't produced at the NHL level, untill one of both start doing that I don't see how the Oilers can say they won this trade.

Parise hasn't 'produced' either, unless you count giftwrapped points he procured playing on the top line from March 19th on. It's interesting to note who was on the ice against him during his best game during that stretch, a 2-goal outing at home against Philly. Both goals were scored against extremely weak even-strength opposition- a line of Umberger-Carter-Dimitrakos for the first and a line of Gagne-Nedved-Savage for the second.

 

[Lowetide]

I think it's one of those deals that will work out for both teams. Parise has a full season in the NHL and although he did struggle it looked like there was improvement over the season. He probably played soft minutes but 21 equal strength points in less than 11 minutes EV time is similar to Vanek (who scored 24 points in about the same EV time). I admit to not knowing how tough the opposition was for Vanek but I'd doubt very much that Ruff would be running him out there against the dominant opposition.

Pouliot had a solid AHL season and should make the NHL team this season (opening night is a possibility). AHL stats suggest he is behind Parise at the same age (Parise is almost a year older) but I do recall Parise playing with guys like McAmmond in his AHL season. Not Patrick Elias but McAmmond was a strong player for the AHL in the lockout season.

Jacques is a wrecking ball and should make up the difference between Parise and Pouliot (the gap isn't clearly established but there does seem to be some clearance).

As an Oilers fan I'd argue that having two quality prospects near the level of Parise is a very nice spot to be in. NJD fans have to feel pretty good about how well Parise stepped into the NHL.

Good trade for both teams. Who won?

Too soon to tell.

 

[crashlanding]

Hey guys, Parise and Pouliot were BOTH the same age when they were in the AHL. Parise may be a year older but he played in the AHL a year sooner.

 

[crashlanding]

Parise hasn't 'produced' either, unless you count giftwrapped points he procured playing on the top line from March 19th on. It's interesting to note who was on the ice against him during his best game during that stretch, a 2-goal outing at home against Philly. Both goals were scored against extremely weak even-strength opposition- a line of Umberger-Carter-Dimitrakos for the first and a line of Gagne-Nedved-Savage for the second.

Wow, congrats, you can read play-by-plays. I hate when people say this, but perhaps you should watch a game instead of reading what nhl.com has to say.

Did you even see the goals in question?

 

[hfboardsuser]

Wow, congrats, you can read play-by-plays. I hate when people say this, but perhaps you should watch a game instead of reading what nhl.com has to say.

Ah yes, this is when I know I'm in for a debate not worth having. Apparently knowing something about the game ironically makes one assume I don't watch it. Really a bizarre leap of logic.

Did you even see the goals in question?

Goal 1: Weird bounce off Parise's skate.
Goal 2: Wrister.

Oooh, what production.

 

[Hockey-Freak]

How exactly has Parise performed at the NHL level? He put up 32 points last season which left him only tied for 25th in rookie scoring. It's not like he had some monumental campaign that left the two Oilers prospects in the dust.

Eric Staal scored 31 in his first season. So what the hell does that say about Parise? Let´s wait and see what he´s able to do in 06/07. Maybe it´s easier to rate his potential after another year...

 

[s7ark]

Eric Staal scored 31 in his first season. So what the hell does that say about Parise? Let´s wait and see what he´s able to do in 06/07. Maybe it´s easier to rate his potential after another year...

Staal was 18 when he broke into the league. Maybe that has something to do with it?

 

[oil slick]

Probably still a little early to tell, but I like the deal from an Edmonton perspective. Parise is basically a full year older than Pouliot, and I am expecting Pouliot to accomplish what Parise did last year, this year. add in Jacques, and I think Edmonton came off fine.

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

The team that ultimatley wins the trade is the team that gets the better player. Oilers didn't like what they saw at that spot so they traded down. New Jersey got their man and the Oilers settles for two players they liked. Leave it at that. Pouliot hasn't done anything at the NHL level yet. To say Parise's points were gifts from Gomez and Gionta...why the hell would a good hockey mind like Lou stick a player like Parise with Gomez and Gionta if he didn't think it would help his team.

Parise's points in the AHL were at the same age as Pouliot and against much much tougher opposition.