Parise for Pouliot, Jacques

Discussion in 'NHL Draft - Prospects' started by elphy101, Apr 8, 2005.

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  1. elphy101

    elphy101 Registered User

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    I just wanted to revisit this trade from two years ago.

    New Jersey moved up in the draft to select Zach Parise who scored 15-39-54 in 66 games in the AHL as a 20 year old. Despite being a smaller player, he has put up great numbers everywhere he has played.

    Trading down allowed the Oilers to select Marc-Antoine Pouliot who scored 45-69-114 in 70 games as a 19 year old in the QJMHL. He put up the 4th most points in the entire CHL.

    With the second round pick included in the deal, the Oilers selected powerforward Jean-Francois Jacques who scored 36-42-78 in 69 games. Good for 15th in the QMJHL. But Jacques is more known as a punishing powerforward measure 6'4 220 pounds. He was the leading scorer on his team the Baie Comeau Drakar and won 3 1st star games selections despite his team losing 6 six games in the first round of the playoffs.

    Anyway, the question is who do you think won this deal?
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2005
  2. Rabid Ranger

    Rabid Ranger 2 is better than one

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    The rule of the thumb in these sort of exercises is who came out with the best player? I maintain that's Parise, so New Jersey came out ahead. That doesn't mean Edmonton fans should be disappointed, but that IMO Parise is one of those players that will be a success anywhere he plays.
     
  3. Jason MacIsaac

    Jason MacIsaac Registered User

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    New Jersey won untill Pouliot proves he can play the pro game and prove he can stay healthy for an extended period of time allthough I feel Pouliot could become a Gagne type player.
     
  4. hfboardsuser

    hfboardsuser Registered User

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    Going with the assumption Parise can put up 30-35 more points than Pouliot, (I think that's a little high, but hey) the Oilers still come out on top. Pouliot is known for his great defensive skills as much as his offensive skills. His EV +/- will always be respectable. Jacques is a 30-35 point guy who destroys the opposition with thundering checks. In the end, adding a (conservative) estimation of 55 points on average from Pouliot with 30 from Jacques makes up 85 total points, around where I think Parise produces. However, what Parise lacks is what those two bring to the table- momentum-changing hits (Jacques) and the defense that wins championships (Pouliot). And while it's not in one player, MAP and JFJ will obviously have a combined TOI that's higher than Parise's, meaning the Oilers get more value out of their acquisitions.

    This doesn't mean I wouldn't like Parise on my team- he's a born offensive dynamo. However, Lowe made a smart trade and even smarter selections that provides two things the Oilers didn't have before by sacrificing a type of player they ended up with anyway (Schremp).
     
  5. Brodeur

    Brodeur Registered User

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    Way, way, way, way too soon to figure out who won this trade. That said, I'm comfortable with giving up that 2nd rounder to secure Parise.
     
  6. Kestrel

    Kestrel Registered User

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    It's not just a matter of who comes out with the better player(s), it's a matter of who fills their needs the best. Jacques and Pouliot are bigger players than Parise - if they fill active duty and play physical, from the point of view of the Oilers, I think they came out FAR ahead.

    I'm not saying Parise can't play well because of his size - he can, and that's not the point. A small player can do quite well - but it's hard to succeed when your WHOLE team is small, or even just all of your centres.

    This isn't to say that NJ lost from their perspective - it IS possible to have a trade that's a win-win situation for both teams. If they've got the physical team to protect small players, then they come ahead by getting the small high end player. Edmonton's not in the best position to do that, so they're better off getting the larger physical players who could potentially become journeymen, or even skilled players in their own right.
     
  7. Big Deaner

    Big Deaner Registered User

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    I agree. This is one of those rare win-win situations. If all 3 players fulfill their potentials I think Edmonton might come out on top of this deal, especially with Jaques who IMO can be a force if his game comes together. Presently however, New Jersey is probably liking the trade more and more as Parise has pretty much proven he can play well at any level of competition.
     
  8. X-SHARKIE

    X-SHARKIE Registered User

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    IMO it's still Parise and New Jersey easily. No question. I still don't by Pouliot. I also don't see Jacques being more then a third liner.
     
  9. gabpas

    gabpas Registered User

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    In the long run Edmonton iwill be a better team with Pouliot and Jacques than with just Parise. I believe this is how Lowe looked at this deal and it was not a question of drafting the BPA. A calculated and smart move by Lowe.
     
  10. Asiaoil

    Asiaoil Vperod Bizona!

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    Parise's production in the AHL this year is very telling - it's pretty good but it looks like he will be a smaller 2nd line player similar to Comrie, York or Briere. History does not suggest that his AHL performance will translate into a top line player - and that's why the trade was made from an Oiler perspective irrespective of McGuire's rants.

    We will know a lot more after Pouliot and JFJ actually play their first year of pro hockey. They look like they are developing well - but next year is when you will know who won or lost. Could be the deal worked for both sides - and who could have a problem with that. Most Oiler fans would not undo the deal right now - and neither would the NJD crew.
     
  11. DownFromNJ

    DownFromNJ Registered User

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    Ask Edmonton and they'll say they want Parise back if given the opportunity, but it's not like they are feeling spurned here.
     
  12. gabpas

    gabpas Registered User

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    May I ask why and where you got this information?
     
  13. speeds

    speeds Registered User

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    FWIW, I believe Lowe said at the time of the draft that if they hadn't made the move to trade down they'd have taken Pouliot at 17 anyways.

    I'm not sure if that's true or not, but I think that's the gist of what he said when they did the20 second post pick interview on TSN at the 2003 draft.
     
  14. GorillazXL

    GorillazXL Registered User

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    This is probally the reason why this deal was done. At the time Comrie and York were both young healthy centers in the Oilers system, add Marchant into the mix and you've got basically three centremans on the smallish side. In 03 when Lowe was at the podium, he was looking for skill (who wouldn't) but he also wanted size. You can't draft for both without taking some risk, and that's why they picked Pouliot.

    I think they Oilers scouting staff knew of Parise's ability as an offensive player with good hockey sense but they felt he could only help them to a certain extent. Getting two larger bodies (Poluiot and Jacques) would add size and perhaps some skill into the Oilers system.

    GXL
     
  15. Jason MacIsaac

    Jason MacIsaac Registered User

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    You obviously never seen Parise playa since you are comparing him to one dimentional forwards.
     
  16. GorillazXL

    GorillazXL Registered User

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    I don't think its any slant against Parise to say he plays like Mike York.

    GXL
     
  17. elphy101

    elphy101 Registered User

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    York as a one dimensional forward? He reminds me alot of Parise although his top end is probably not as high.
     
  18. Guy Flaming

    Guy Flaming Registered User

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    I have. you're wrong.
     
  19. zamboni

    zamboni Registered User

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    Geez. Talk about getting told. :)

    Sure, Pouliot and JFJ haven't proven anything in the AHL. However, all 3 have yet to prove a thing in the NHL. It will take a few years to see who won this trade.


    As for the Mike York being one dimensional thing, give your head a shake.
     
  20. Dallas

    Dallas Registered User

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    I think York is about the best comparison there is for Parise. I don't see why some people have a problem with that... York is a great player.
     
  21. Aethon

    Aethon 12 Axes

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    "Despite being a smaller player"..........

    Zach Parise Center
    Height 5.11 -- Weight 185

    *****************************

    Joe Sakic Center
    Height 5.11 -- Weight 185

    Steve Yzerman Center
    Height 5.11 -- Weight 185

    Adam Oates Center
    Height 5.11 -- Weight 190

    "Despite being a smaller players" These guys had pretty good careers.



    I wonder why I never heard ONCE heard on these boards despite being a smaller player Crosby is pretty good???

    Sidney Crosby Center
    Height 5.10 -- Weight 175 -- Shoots L
     
  22. Anksun

    Anksun Registered User

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    Actually, arent we hearing about 5 times a week about how Crosby is too small and it could hurt him? I'm pretty sure it's something we do heard a plentora of time...
     
  23. David

    David Registered User

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    I think that young Parise reminds me more of a young Dougie Weight with a touch of Peter Forsberg thrown in there rather than Mike York...
     
  24. Lowetide

    Lowetide Registered User

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    A couple things:

    1. I recall Lowe's comments being pretty much what speeds detailed earlier. We can certainly call it "spin" but the Oilers clearly felt comfortable with Pouliot on draft day.

    2. Parise had a very good AHL season as a 20 year old. igor on the Oiler board has suggested that often a 20 year old with a 1/1 gp/ppg ratio has projects as a top 2 line player at the NHL level (I don't want to misrepresent it but imo that's basically the idea).

    If we give a little extra credit to Parise for playing in a better than normal AHL this season it could reasonably be argued that he projects as a guy who is going to be successful on the skill lines at the NHL level.

    I don't think he's Bobby Clarke gritty or anything but from what little I've seen he isn't a perimeter player either.

    MAP's 20 year old season is straight ahead. If you asked me to bet a fin on Pouliot having better AHL numbers next season than Parise did this season I don't think I would take that bet.

    Still like the deal as an Oiler fan, though.
     
  25. Jason MacIsaac

    Jason MacIsaac Registered User

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    Sorry, I only read the Comrie and Briere then went off since this guy only bashes Parise. I actually think Parise will be a clone of York with more plymaking skills.
     
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