owners looking at a "third option"

[Mr Sakich]

according to peter mahr (play by play guy for the flames), the owners are not seriously looking at declaring an impasse or waiting for a deal with the players. They spent most of their time yesterday talking about a "third way"

The details are still sketchy but it appears the nhl will try to divide the union by offering contracts to the guys making less than a million and then filling the rosters with guys from europe and recent retired guys. The lockout ends this summer and the nhl will just refuse to offer big contracts. I would think that existing contracts will have to be honored.

I don't understand how this is not collusion but the nhl is working towards this agreement. The details will start to come out over the next few days.

Click to read more...

 

[Hasbro]

Oh dear god! Not the bomb!

 

[ColoradoHockeyFan]

I don't understand either. Is this not blatant collusion? Are we maybe missing some details? Can any of the more legally-trained posters comment on the feasibility of this plan or anything similar?

Where was this interview, by the way, and is it archived anywhere?

 

[Drury_Sakic]

Is that not colusion(sp)?

Which is illegal..

and a waste of time?

And what the hell do they propose to do about the CBA?


could the NHL as a whole offer contracts to players.. then disperse them among the teams, meaning the NHL owns the rights to ALL the players, and disributes them via a draft?

That might actually be legal?

:lol

Honor current contracts...then let the NHL sign all players to contracts whenever players become FA, and each year distribute them through a draft each summer?

HA!

 

[djhn579]

Wasn't there a little blurb in an article somewhere where it mentioned that the NHL was looking for a ruling that the players were independent contractors? Could this possibly be what they are considering?

 

[X0ssbar]

Many had suggested the NHL has something up its sleeve. I am sure more details will surface about this "third option" in the coming days.

 

[thinkwild]

I wonder what would happen regarding labour law if the owners hired players on personal services contracts. Or some sort of commercial contract.

Such blatant union busting. Tsk, tsk. But looking at the NHLs actions, rather than their doublespeak, they are going to be quite transparent about it. And hope their lawyers can away with it for them.

 

[vanlady]

I don't understand either. Is this not blatant collusion? Are we maybe missing some details? Can any of the more legally-trained posters comment on the feasibility of this plan or anything similar?

Where was this interview, by the way, and is it archived anywhere?

Not only is it collusion, the NLRB would have a STOKE. For owners to negotiate directly with players is coerision and if you would like the legal precedents I will be happy to provide them.

Well at least I now know the NHL's plan B. Royally screw up, get taken to the NLRB have a per se ruling put in place and start next season under the old CBA. Sorry but the contractor thing has been tried and the courts have ruled that since there was a CBA the NHL has voluntarily recognized the union, thus that statagy is all smoke and mirrors.

 

[Phanuthier*]

Peter Mahr is one of the most respected men in hockey, forget the media.

As far as I know, in his long career, he has never spewed out the crap Bruce Dohbeggin, Al Strachan or any of those other clowns spew out on a weekly basis.

Could they "pick and choose" their players? I wouldn't be surprised. I know Darryl Sutter has been talking to many of the Flames players.

 

[dakota]

hmmm I wonder what this is all about?

 

[Icey]

I know Darryl Sutter has been talking to many of the Flames players.

Really??? Management is suppose to have no contact with any of the players during the lock-out. The only exception was the week before the season was called off and Bettman lifted the no contact rule, but I understand that rule has been re-instated.

 

[guymez]

I know Darryl Sutter has been talking to many of the Flames players.

Really.....and how exactly do you know this?

 

[dakota]

are there any links to this?

 

[Michalek]

Really.....and how exactly do you know this?

Thats true , I heard that on Fan 960 few days ago. They were saying that Sutter has contacted all of his players , and he is confident that most of "his" guys would cross. I havent heard that from the Sutter mouth but they mentioned this on the radio few times.

 

[Phanuthier*]

Really.....and how exactly do you know this?

Darryl Sutter said it on the radio, FAN 960.

He wouldn't specify names, but he said alot of players have been going to him seeking advice for their career, ie. if they should go to Europe or whatever. Many expressed concern over not only theri career, but their family as well. He also alluded to the fact that some of the older player have been going to him, asking what to do as they are getting on in the years. While he didn't state names, you can guess those would include Martin Gelinas and Roman Turek. Rhett Warraner is also another contender for that guess. Dave Lowry would make sense if he were healthier/younger, but it seems like he's basically done and all but assist coach with the Flames when Sutter moves up to the GM chair and Playfair takes over as coach.

I also believe (unless my unfallable memory fails me ) that the alluded (but did not say directly) that his players would do what he says, ie. they put their faith more into Sutter then their deadbeat leader Bob Goodenow. After all, early on in the lockout, Flames players seemed to be the most vocal against the union (Andrew Ference, Mike Commodore are two that come to mind). Jamie Tardif also went on record in a interview with calgarypuck.com saying if given the choice, he would play in a replacement-player league.

If I were to run through the names of players I think would cross, they would include: Gelinas, Kobasew, Simon, Lowry (mabye), Yelle, Clark, Dono, Regehr, Phaneuf, Weimer, Ference, Commodore, Montador, Warraner, Kiprusoff, Turek, Krahn.

 

[guymez]

Darryl Sutter said it on the radio, FAN 960.

He wouldn't specify names, but he said alot of players have been going to him seeking advice for their career, ie. if they should go to Europe or whatever. Many expressed concern over not only theri career, but their family as well. He also alluded to the fact that some of the older player have been going to him, asking what to do as they are getting on in the years. While he didn't state names, you can guess those would include Martin Gelinas, Dave Lowry and Roman Turek.

Well...I hope there is some truth to this. If it is true, it isn't a reach to think that many other teams have had this same experience.
On the other hand one could argue that it may be only 1 or 2 players and Sutter is just using an exagerated scenario to create the perception of a weakening union.

 

[nomorekids]

Oh no, Bill Houlder and Vitali Yachmenev might once again be Preds?

I like the replacement player plan better, personally.

 

[Phanuthier*]

On the other hand one could argue that it may be only 1 or 2 players and Sutter is just using an exagerated scenario to create the perception of a weakening union.

It'll be a cold day in hell when Darryl Sutter doesn't tell the truth.

(Well, actually, according to physics, with the number of souls going to hell, hell must expand, thus according to the -and I use this very loosly - conservation of energy, if the volume expands and the energy of the system goes down, thus the temperature goes down... ah never mind. )

Anyways, back on topic (sorry, got too caught up in my homework) I doubt that list would "only" include one or two. All of the players I listed above either have a great friendship and deal of respect for Darryl Sutter, have said they'll play in a replacement player league (tongue in cheek, that is) or have something great to lose if replacement players start taking their jobs away.

 

[Phanuthier*]

Oh no, Bill Houlder and Vitali Yachmenev might once again be Preds?

I like the replacement player plan better, personally.

Hey, Sutter favourite Jeff Shantz might become a Flame again, so be thankful.

 

[shakes]

If I were to run through the names of players I think would cross, they would include: Gelinas, Kobasew, Simon, Lowry (mabye), Yelle, Clark, Dono, Regehr, Phaneuf, Weimer, Ference, Commodore, Montador, Warraner, Kiprusoff, Turek, Krahn.

Well, according to law only the Canadian players would be able to play for them, so you could cross a few of those players off your list... like your goalies for instance.

 

[Phanuthier*]

Well, according to law only the Canadian players would be able to play for them, so you could cross a few of those players off your list... like your goalies for instance.

I could be wrong, but I believe Roman Turek has dual citizenship (including Canadian citizenship). Thus, Kiprusoff would be the only one that would be scratched off the list - not a few.

 

[shakes]

I could be wrong, but I believe Roman Turek has dual citizenship (including Canadian citizenship). Thus, Kiprusoff would be the only one that would be scratched off the list - not a few.

sorry, my mistake.. not a few.. though I'm sure that you would rather have a few from your list not playing instead of your starting goaltender.

 

[me2]

Darryl Sutter said it on the radio, FAN 960.

He wouldn't specify names, but he said alot of players have been going to him seeking advice for their career, ie. if they should go to Europe or whatever. Many expressed concern over not only theri career, but their family as well. He also alluded to the fact that some of the older player have been going to him, asking what to do as they are getting on in the years. While he didn't state names, you can guess those would include Martin Gelinas and Roman Turek. Rhett Warraner is also another contender for that guess. Dave Lowry would make sense if he were healthier/younger, but it seems like he's basically done and all but assist coach with the Flames when Sutter moves up to the GM chair and Playfair takes over as coach.

I also believe (unless my unfallable memory fails me ) that the alluded (but did not say directly) that his players would do what he says, ie. they put their faith more into Sutter then their deadbeat leader Bob Goodenow. After all, early on in the lockout, Flames players seemed to be the most vocal against the union (Andrew Ference, Mike Commodore are two that come to mind). Jamie Tardif also went on record in a interview with calgarypuck.com saying if given the choice, he would play in a replacement-player league.

If I were to run through the names of players I think would cross, they would include: Gelinas, Kobasew, Simon, Lowry (mabye), Yelle, Clark, Dono, Regehr, Phaneuf, Weimer, Ference, Commodore, Montador, Warraner, Kiprusoff, Turek, Krahn.

I'm not sure of the legality of this but here goes (wetcoaster?)......

The Flames organisation leaves the NHL collective. The Flames players could then tell Goodenow and the NHLPA to accept the Flames offer on behalf of the Flames players (now seperate from the other NHLPA members). Goodenow might be compelled to accept. If he chooses not, despite being ordered to, the players would then vote to cut the NHLPA as their union elect a new union. Both sides negotiate a CBA they are happy with and get on with it. If a few more teams do the same and we start getting a season.

So rather than needing 50.1% of the entire union teams would only need 50.1% of a that team's players. A much, much easier task. You could get quite a few teams playing with while most of the union is against a deal.

 

[dakota]

I'm not sure of the legality of this but here goes (wetcoaster?)......

The Flames organisation leaves the NHL collective. The Flames players could then tell Goodenow and the NHLPA to accept the Flames offer on behalf of the Flames players (now seperate from the other NHLPA members). Goodenow might be compelled to accept. If he chooses not, despite being ordered to, the players would then vote to cut the NHLPA as their union elect a new union. Both sides negotiate a CBA they are happy with and get on with it. If a few more teams do the same and we start getting a season.

So rather than needing 50.1% of the entire union teams would only need 50.1% of a that team's players. A much, much easier task. You could get quite a few teams playing with while most of the union is against a deal.

so the individual team rosters would have to vote and those that vote to accept would be able to play in the new NHL and those that do not continue to sit out and watch.... interesting...

 

[Snap Wilson]

I don't understand how this is not collusion but the nhl is working towards this agreement. The details will start to come out over the next few days.

It's B.S. The owners can't offer players contracts until they either end the lockout or an impasse is declared, because the CBA is the framework for all contracts, and no CBA has been agreed upon. And yes, agreeing to limit salaries among each other is collusion.