Owners considering a new league...

[YellHockey*]

You may want to look up the definition of "hockey fan" and try studying it.

"Hockey fan" != "NHL fan"

If more people had Vincent the Great's attitude towards the NHL there wouldn't be a lockout.

 

[txpd]

Hmmm... A SuperLeague maybe? There are probably 10 teams that will say screw you if an attempt to handcuff them with a salary cap is part of the equation. I see 2 leagues forming from the remnants of the NHL-- A superleague with the money teams and better players, and a league that is a step between the AHL and the Super League, kinda like a WHA of the 70s. This league will likely disappear and some teams may be absorbed by the Super league.

a 10 team league would never survive outside of Canada. there would be enough Canadian teams to keep them on TV there and outside of that hockey would be local only in the USA.

the 2nd league you mention would also be only local and would be marginally better than the AHL. that league would not have the financial clout to attract elite european players and would fall much closer to what the AHL looked like a few years ago when there were more veteran players in it. it would be a minor league.
a lot of the current franchises in the NHL that you invision being in that second league would rather fold up shop than participate in a minor league.

 

[txpd]

Are you sure about that?

The NHL is not the rightful owner of the Stanley Cup.

well...ask yourself, if the toronto maple leafs and montreal canadiens are in this new league who would withhold the stanley cup from competition for them?

 

[Lionel Hutz]

Are you sure about that?

The NHL is not the rightful owner of the Stanley Cup.

Are you sure about that? I may be wrong, but I was pretty sure it was in fact NHL property.

 

[WrightOn]

why are you guys so surprised by this? what tradition will be lost should the owners fold the NHL and start a new league?

You are serious.

Tradition is more than the physics that you listed.
Let's cancel Christmas and revamp it ...calling it Jesusday!!!! And we'll celebrate in the summer, with different families than our own!
No loss of tradition, right?

 

[thestonedkoala]

Uhhh isn't it called the WHA and isn't it failing? Seriously...

Hey! The WHA just started up, why don't we make another league so we have three professional leagues...

Why don't the owners just take over the WHA?

 

[djhn579]

Are you sure about that? I may be wrong, but I was pretty sure it was in fact NHL property.

Here is a thread discussing the ownership of the cup...


http://www.hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=82976&highlight=Stanley+cup+possesion+ownership

 

[Hold the Pickles]

The NHL is a business (a franchisee)... nothing more... The owners can shut down operation - start a new league - and buy, or be transfered, whatever is remnents of the NHL shell at any time... The lawyers will work out the details... The existing obligations outlined by the CBA has been met... The NHLPA and the owners do not have a contract...

It's called how to break a union...

This is what I was thinking... The players better watch out. It's unfortunate but Hockey is just not as lucretive as the other major sports and players salaries should reflect that fact. Now If I were in the union, I be pushing more for a temporary comprimise with much more emphasis on increasing the popularity of the sport so that maybe, someday, the NHL could become lucretive enough to support the desired salaries. By all means don't cave in, but a prolonged stoppage now can only hurt both sides. If you hurt the owners too much, they're not going to be as willing to sign big checks and may force them to do something as drastic as create a new league.

I just recently returned from a cross-country road trip and discussed Hockey some with people not in Hockey markets (New Mexico, Oklahoma and such). Amazingly, the objection to hockey I heard most was that the rules were confusing and because of this they didn't understand what was going on (We all know how untrue that is, but obviously there is a need for some education). Next in line was that they had trouble following the puck, and I truely believe HD will eventually help with this aspect.

The NHL obviously realized this problem when they pushed for expansion but I feel they haven't done enough to popularize the sport. Hockey has a good balance of everything that most North Americans love in sports, and now with rollerblades, even people in the desert can even enjoy playing a game that used to be only for those who live in colder climates.

 

[DownFromNJ]

Guys you don't understand.

There will be no new league. Owners say they'll ditch the union if the union refuses to sign a better CBA. Union knows that this would be the union would be useless, so union is willing to compromise.


The owners could easily start a new league. Its not that tough when you own everything.

 

[WrightOn]

Guys you don't understand.

There will be no new league. Owners say they'll ditch the union if the union refuses to sign a better CBA. Union knows that this would be the union would be useless, so union is willing to compromise.

Come on!! Let us keep foaming at the mouth for a little while longer before reason sets in!

DownformNJ with the reality serum!

(I agree)

 

[I in the Eye]

Are you sure about that?

The NHL is not the rightful owner of the Stanley Cup.

If not the NHL, who is the rightful owner of the Stanley Cup? The NHLPA?

As far as I understand, the Stanley Cup is an NHL asset - it is a league award... not an NHLPA award...

But even if the Stanley Cup is owned by the NHLPA, I'm quite sure they'd sell the cup to the new owner's league for their definition of the right amount of $...

_______________________________

BTW: I think this 'new league' alternative is just a threat - a negotiation tactic... I don't think things will get that far...

But it's interesting thinking about

 

[David Puddy]

Are you sure about that?

The NHL is not the rightful owner of the Stanley Cup.

Who is, the Czar of Russia?

Seriously though, I know what saying. Maybe the owners will start up the Pacific Coast Hockey Association again, and they will get the Stanley Cup.

 

[x-bob]

Guys you don't understand.

There will be no new league. Owners say they'll ditch the union if the union refuses to sign a better CBA. Union knows that this would be the union would be useless, so union is willing to compromise.


The owners could easily start a new league. Its not that tough when you own everything.

I agree too but making a new NHL isn't a bad idea. If the Union caves in then they sign a new CBA and everythings ok but if they don't then they just make a new NHL with all the same teams and in a couple of years, it's gonna be as popular as the NHL.

 

[Guest]

I guess I kind of question the journalistic value of the article considering it was short enough to write on a napkin and without a reputable source and details.

If it's true, it's genius, and the NHLPA would fold like a house of cards. Sure the star players might keep the NHLPA's company line, but all the young players who are trying to make a living playing hockey would jump to NHL2 in a heartbeat, and you'd also see other fringe players that can't hold on doing the same. If there is enough of a current going into NHL2, then the stars would follow as well and it'd be a lost game for the NHLPA.

That's all if the story has an ounce of validity.

I'd be curious to see an NHLPA versus NHL league and to see where the players would go, and what players would go where. It'd only work if the overall number of teams remained the same or even a slightly smaller total of team. Obviously the talent would divide out to still have roughly 30 teams as today, possibly even two leagues of 16 teams for 32.

 

[djhn579]

If not the NHL, who is the rightful owner of the Stanley Cup? The NHLPA?

As far as I understand, the Stanley Cup is an NHL asset - it is a league award... not an NHLPA award...

But even if the Stanley Cup is owned by the NHLPA, I'm quite sure they'd sell the cup to the new owner's league for their definition of the right amount of $...

_______________________________

BTW: I think this 'new league' alternative is just a threat - a negotiation tactic... I don't think things will get that far...

But it's interesting thinking about

You could probably get a good start on a new league for, I don't know, $300M?

 

[Guest]

It actually makes me go back to the post I had recently talking about splitting the NHL into two leagues, the spenders (NHLPA backed) and the rest of the teams that want a cap. Two different leagues where the owners could go where they felt they were best served, you could fit in some intra-league games so they meet once a season at home each, or not, and then the best of the two leagues meet for the Cup final.

Have a read

 

[Habitantpeasoup]

No. Some of the owners have venues. The NHL has the team names and the TV contracts, not the owners' new league.

Do you think TSN or CBC is going to pay the same for some new unestablished league as it would for a league with decades of history and with another unestablished league offering a similiar product? The owners wouldn't get nearly as much from its contracts.




But the owners are starting a new league to try and prevent the players from getting the money.

There are plenty of arenas around North America that are NHL calibre and aren't owned by an NHL owner. Saddledome, Rexall Centre, Rose Garden, Houston's new arena, and Arrowhead Pond to name some of them. They could also go into arenas are that are almost NHL calibre like the new Winnipeg arena, Copps Coliseum, Ottawa Civic Centre, Toronto's AHL arena, etc.

The fans would rather watch the best players in the less desireable buildings then the less desireable players in the best buildings.

The players also know if they stick together they can beat the owners' new league and get their buildings from them for a song.

It all depends on who you side with the owners or the players. I side with the owners, NHL players are to ****** greedy and want on par money that the other leagues players get,in which their is
only one problem! the NHL doesn't generate a fraction of the money the other leagues make. 76 % of all NHL revenue comes from the gate where as its around 50 % for the other leagues plus we don't have the TV revenue. When are the players going to wake up & realize they been getting paid way to much in accordance with what this league generates. If the 2 sides do form their own leagues all watch the owners, screw the NHLPA & their greedy ways.

 

[ginner classic]

It's called collusion, and it's illegal. Major League Baseball got into troube for doing it many years ago.

Time to read the law books again Puddywhacker. What was just described is absolutely not collusion.

 

[Papa Smurf]

Who is, the Czar of Russia?

Seriously though, I know what saying. Maybe the owners will start up the Pacific Coast Hockey Association again, and they will get the Stanley Cup.

Well, the last Tsar has been dead since 1918 so I guess it can't be him. I think it belongs to the Ayatollah's grandson.

*Hides in embarassment from extremely weak joke*

 

[Bicycle Repairman]

Hmmm... A SuperLeague maybe? There are probably 10 teams that will say screw you if an attempt to handcuff them with a salary cap is part of the equation.

I think the key to establishing an Elite NHL would be to place teams in major US markets, capital cities, and other cosmopolitan locations. By limiting markets, you would create a niche sport and higher demand by limiting access to the well-heeled customer.

New York, Boston. Los Angeles, Chicago, Montreal Washington Ottawa, Detroit, Dallas, and Miami.

Toronto would then be the flagship franchise of a Canadian League. They could compete for the Stanley Trophy (sponsored by Stanley Tools naturally) in keeping with their blue-collar image.

 

[Sanderson]

If I'm not mistaken the Stanley Cup belongs to a holding with roughly the same name.
They gave the Cup to the NHL, as it is supposed to be the trophy for the best hockey league in the world. This may have changed a bit, considering the long history of the Stanley Cup being the NHL's trophy. The holding would never seperate them.
If there would be a "new" NHL and it would still be the best league, which would be doable, there is no reason to suspect the holding taking the Cup away.

 

[x-bob]

Well, the last Czar has been dead since 1918 so I guess it can't be him. I think it belongs to the Ayatollah's grandson.

*Hides in embarassment from extremely weak joke*

you better hide :beatup:

 

[I in the Eye]

Time to read the law books again Puddywhacker. What was just described is absolutely not collusion.

I think David was implying that it would be collusion if the NHL owners 'secretly' agreed to a cap system amongst themselves - when the CBA spells out something far different - i.e. the 'free market' status quo that currently exists...

 

[I in the Eye]

It actually makes me go back to the post I had recently talking about splitting the NHL into two leagues, the spenders (NHLPA backed) and the rest of the teams that want a cap. Two different leagues where the owners could go where they felt they were best served, you could fit in some intra-league games so they meet once a season at home each, or not, and then the best of the two leagues meet for the Cup final.

Have a read

IMO, this is great... It's an alternative that a good fan of the game came up with to try and solve the problem (while considering and being compassionate towards both two sides)...

IMO, this is what the real world hockey negotiations need... More possible solutions... less bickering as to which side is right or wrong... Get to know, understand, and have compassion for the other side... and this only comes through dialogue and communication... The more dialogue and communication, IMO, the better...

How many proposals did the league submit to to the NHLPA... 6? How many proposals did the NHLPA submit to the NHL? Probably not even that many...

I say both the NHLPA and the NHL send hundreds of proposals back and forth... from the informal crazy ones sent via e-mail (or over a beer) to the dead serious formal ones sent by Fed Ex... Hell, if there is not going to be a year of hockey - at least have the two sides constantly talking and discussing things over that time - even if it's over crazy ideas (not that your proposal is crazy GoCoyotes... I personally think it's interesting... )

That's the only way progress is going to be made... Not one meeting that takes place in August, one in September... one in December... etc...

IMO, constant communication (and thinking) is needed... Even if both sides are debating the existence of God... C'mon Goodnow... C'mon Bettman... Sometime in October, discuss and laugh over a beer about some crazy idea Milbury had to fix the problem - if the alternative is not talking or discussing at all!

 

[Russian Fan]

I think David was implying that it would be collusion if the NHL owners 'secretly' agreed to a cap system amongst themselves - when the CBA spells out something far different - i.e. the 'free market' status quo that currently exists...

Easier to say than to prove. Petrolium companies agreed together to put the same price on Oil in the cities , it's so obvious that it's collusion but nothing to do about it.

Same with the NHL, NHLPA can claim all they want that there is a collusion , it will be very hard to prove it. In fact there's probably a collusion today regarding UFA - Superstars & no one says anything about it ? because it's hard to prove.