Ovechkin v Heatley

Discussion in 'NHL Draft - Prospects' started by Peter Sidorkiewicz, Dec 8, 2004.

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  1. Peter Sidorkiewicz

    Peter Sidorkiewicz Devils Army

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    The Ovechkin V Kovalchuk comparision has been done to death with the general consensus that Ovechkin has the better upside due to be able to play better D than Kovalchuk.

    I like to know what people think about who has the better upside between Ovechkin and Heatley disregarding the legal situation hanging over Dany's head at the moment. I've seen Heatley a lot a he is pretty much a complete player offensively - strong skater, great shot and a good passer. He also skates back in his own zone and works diligently in defence.

    Basically I like to know how Ovechkin stacks up.
     
  2. hockeyfan125

    hockeyfan125 Registered User

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    When he gets back to full form, I would take Dany Heatley.
    I just hope he can get back there..
     
  3. Captain Conservative

    Captain Conservative Registered User

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    If we're disregarding the injuries he suffered and the legal problems he incurred in that accident, I'd take Heatley. He was a definite top 10 forward in the NHL previous to that incident, perhaps even a top 10 player, depending on who you ask. With those two problems factored in though, i'd take Ovechkin.
     
  4. velimiiro

    velimiiro Guest

    Dany Heatley!
     
  5. CapsCrazyX17

    CapsCrazyX17 Registered User

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    Ask me again once Ovechkin has actually played an NHL season and we can make a somewhat fair comparison...
     
  6. EroCaps

    EroCaps Registered User

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    It's so easy to argue for a known entity. I'll say this much, on potential alone- Ovechkin.
     
  7. Vatican Roulette

    Vatican Roulette Baile de Los Locos

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    on potential, Ovechkin.
    On the proven player, Heatley by far.
     
  8. Vlad The Impaler

    Vlad The Impaler Registered User

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    Even if I forget Heatley's troubles, I'd still go with Ovechkin, unproven and all...
     
  9. Chimaera

    Chimaera same ol' Caps

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    Being a gambling man, I'd take Ovechkin.


    While he is unproven in the NHL, his potential's beyond Heatley's in some ways.

    I'd bank on the RSL/WC numbers. But would want to see how he looked in camp/few games of the NHL before I passed completely judgement.

    Heatley could still be one of the top 20 players now, but... I think Ovechkin's ceiling could be higher than that.
     
  10. ChemiseBleuHonnete

    ChemiseBleuHonnete Registered User

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    If Heatley can overcome his problems, it's him by far! Heck, he was a top5 player in the league before his troubles.
     
  11. Dr.Sens(e)

    Dr.Sens(e) Registered User

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    I'm not sure how Ovechkin's potential is higher. Heatley's potential is that of a perennial Art Ross contender who scores 50 goals and 100 points annually and takes home a few Hart trophies.

    I also don't agree that Ovechkin's potential is higher than Kovalchuk's. Kovalchuk is much more dynamic an offensive player and has the potential to score 60+ goals a year with multiple Rocket Richard trophies.

    Both Heatley and Kovalchuk have already proven these respective upsides are only a hair away, as Kovalchuk already has one Richard trophy, and Heatley has been top player at two World Championships, has an allstar MVP and scored 89 points in his last full season.

    Ovechkin is a safe prospect and potential franchise player with a very good upside, but he is much further away from achieving that upside than the other two, and less dynamic offensively than either of the other two IMO. You can't go wrong with any of the three, but Ovechkin would be third on that list for me.
     
  12. EroCaps

    EroCaps Registered User

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    Um, no.

    Safe player? Less dynamic? Potential franchise player? Heatley "by far"? You kidding?

    How soon you forget how highly rated Ovechkin was/is before the draft. He was touted as the most dynamic player to come along since Lindros. He can do it all.
     
  13. Dr.Sens(e)

    Dr.Sens(e) Registered User

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    I'm not forgetting how highly touted Ovechkin is. But the key word is 'touted'. I'll take a bird in the hand versus two in the bush anyday. After all, I've already seen Heatley undress Scott Stevens and the world's best defensive players on a nightly basis. That is indeed dynamic and something to behold. I've also seen Heatley dominate on the world stage. Perhaps Ovechkin will get there. Perhaps.

    I don't think there is much question about Kovalchuk being a more dynamic goal scorer - at least that's how I see it. And he was certainly touted in the same way Ovechkin was I might add. Whether Ovechkin proves to be the better all-around offensive player is a fair point and argument, but again, Kovalchuk is already proven to be one the world's elite goal scorers.

    I also don't think I'm alone in thinking Ovechkin is less dynamic - but take that statement in it's proper context. I'm comparing him against two of the most proven young dynamic players in the NHL. There is no shame there.

    To your final point, Lindros might have been more hyped, but several of his peers turned out better offensively. Forsberg was less touted in the same draft, but is and was much better offensively. Do you think when someone is thinking of signing Lindros they talk about much he was touted as an 18 year old?
     
  14. HuskyFlames

    HuskyFlames Registered User

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    There shouldn't even be a choice right now. AO has no exidence to show he can be a top player. While he has the potential nothing is certain. Heatly has shown he can be more thana PPG player and even last year he was near that mark after a huge life incident. The guy has just as much potential as AO BUT already has 181 points in 190 NHL games. Not bad at all for his first 3 years. Not many players do that nowadays. I would take Heatly without looking back, unless he goes to jail. That is the only circumstance.
     
  15. EroCaps

    EroCaps Registered User

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    I'd be shocked if Ovechkin became a Lindros, you're warping my point to fit your argument. And fyi, NHL's european scouting has improved leaps and bounds over the last 10+ years. Things changed after Jagr exploded onto the scene.

    I said I'd take Ovechkin on potential alone. I do believe he has more offensive potential than Heatley, and plays a more complete game than Kovalchuck. That to me, makes him more dynamic than either of them. Will he be? Who knows? Heatley will be 24 in a month. Ovechkin is 19.
     
  16. EroCaps

    EroCaps Registered User

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    The same boring Ovechkin vs. Kovalchuck debate.
     
  17. Levitate

    Levitate Registered User

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    call me cynical...but i look at kovulchuk and heatley...two of the most amazing, gifted young players in the NHL...they are already easily among the top forwards in the league at a very young age and with only a few years of NHL experience. these guys are special, they are the "new superstars" of the league...and then you ask me do i think ovechkin is better? no, not at all.

    obviously since we don't have ovechkin playing in the NHL, there is no real valid comparison...but whatever "potential" ovechkin has is completely trumped by kovulchuk and heatley's actual accomplisments. there frankly isn't much higher to go than what those two guys have already done...ovechkin is going to have to be the best player in the league to trump kovulchuk and heatley, and even then...kovulchuk and heatley could easily be right there with him. that's just my opinion...

    i should also add i'm not saying that ovechkin won't be a special player...he could equal heatley or kovulchuk, could even be better...but right now it's ALL hype about him. the other guys have produced results
     
  18. Dr.Sens(e)

    Dr.Sens(e) Registered User

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    You brought up Lindros. I also fail to see why he should be included in this discussion, unless you want to keep talking about 'hype' and being 'touted'.

    Fair enough about potential. Just curious though - what type of offensive potential do you Ovechkin will achieve? Heatley and Kovalchuk have already demonstrated they are 40+ goal, 85+ point players, which means their respective potentials fall easily within the 50 goal, 100 point range - possibly more, as they are already close to that level of production. And you say Ovechkin's potential is higher than that? What do you think he'll produce? 60 goals? 120 points? I'll just have to respectfully disagree.
     
  19. wilka91*

    wilka91* Registered User

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    Well since Ovechkin is better than Kovalchuk, and that Kovalchuk owns Heatley, Ovechkin is better than Heatley.
     
  20. Atlas

    Atlas Registered User

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    Everything here is speculation but I think Ovechkin will be a better hockey player than both Heatley and Kovalchuk. I haven't seen a lot of Ovechkin but everything that I have seen amazes me. He seems to have the rare quality of desire that many superstars don't have. The one thing you keep hearing about Ovechkin is that "he never stops".

    Heatley, I think, has/had the same qualities but I'm skeptical as to if he'll be able to get his head back there again. Kovalchuk strikes me as another Jagr. That's a good thing but it's not a great thing.
     
  21. Chimaera

    Chimaera same ol' Caps

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    Well... the premise of this thread is a bit off.


    I wouldn't take Ovechkin over Kovalchuk anyday of the week.

    I like Ovechkin a whole lot, and I think eventually he could be a more complete player, but... right now Kovalchuk is extremely good. I don't know if he's got the desire to win, the desire to lead and the desire to keep getting better. That's the one thing I don't always see. When I watch Atlanta, I see a guy who hockey has always been easy for, who is probably out-talenting players all around him, even in the NHL, but who doesn't have that fire you'd hope/want for a guy who is going to be your superstar. I mean, he's a guy who on any given night can put in a couple of goals with no problem, and enjoys doing that. But, when he's not putting in goals, he sometimes disappears. He'll take a shift off and not play defense or not hustle back.

    Maybe he just doesn't show it when he plays the Caps.

    From all I've seen and read, and even talking to the guy, I hope Ovechkin is different. Hopefully he wants to lead, has the fire, the passion to make his team and himself better.

    Heatley's really in a tricky situation right now. Prior to the accident, he was probably on the way to being a top 5 player, now, who knows. I'm pretty sure he'd be in the top20, but top10 might be a stretch. How much of Heatley is also playing on a team where other teams are too busy trying to stop Kovalchuk?

    I think for the most part where the divide on Ovechkin/Heatley is, is the potential for Ovechkin to be that game changer that picks up a team and a franchise and carries them on his shoulders. Heatley hasn't been able to show that, for some reason or another (partly youth, partly the injury, partly Atlanta has been just plain bad) and it's a question of whether or not you can get that out of Ovechkin.
     
  22. Epsilon

    Epsilon #TeamHolland

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    People are seriously swallowing THN's kool-aid about Heatley being a top 5 player in the NHL? I'd love to know which out of Brodeur, Forsberg, Lidstrom, Pronger, Iginla, and Naslund he is better than, just for starters.
     
  23. J17 Vs Proclamation

    J17 Vs Proclamation Registered User

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    How is he better than both of them. Personally i'd rather have Kovalchuk as he is the better offensive talent. I'd agree that Ovechkin could be better than Heatley.
    Kovlachuk will be the most dominant player in the NHL in years to come. He has higher upsides than both Heatley and Ovechkin. AO will definitly be the better defensive player but in the league today where scoring is difficult Kovalchuk has the higher value. I'll be very suprised if Ovechkin can do what Kovalchuk has done at his age. Heatley is the oldest out of the trio and is has less room for improvement.
    Kovalchuk>Ovechkin>Heatley
     
  24. jcorb58

    jcorb58 Registered User

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    I keep hearing this Pavol Bure type dynamic player when peaple talk of Kovalcuk and i dont disagree but, When i think Ovechkin i think more Messier. If the going was tough in a heated playoff game id take Mess over Bure. All 3 are world class players. Lets at least see Ovechkin in the bigs. I believe he is as sure to be a dominant player as anyone. My pick right now would be Kovalchuk Heatley than AO. But that will probubly change in a couple years when AO has a chance to prove himself. He plays an NHL type game. Messiers tough game was more responsible for the Oils success against the Islanders then Gretzs finesse. AO is Washingtons Messier.
     
  25. BuppY

    BuppY xGoodwillx

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    I'd Take Healthy Heatley over Kovalchuk anyday.
     
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