Out of Town (where games matter)

Status
Not open for further replies.

PaulD

Time for a new GM !
Feb 4, 2016
28,755
15,808
Dundas
People being on both sides on an argument, doesn’t mean there’s an actual debate. Some argue for the sake of arguing. And then some actually go to lengths to prove their point.

It’s a sports team. Some people don’t ever want to see the negative that exists.

IMO, they are not so close. One is superior in the way the NHL is played today. The other is Weber.
Exactly. Thats your opinion.
Are you seriously saying those that have a different opinion than yours are just "arguing for the sake of it" Everyone that agrees with your opinion is right. lol :laugh:
I need this guy working for me.
Like the confidence.
 

Laurentide

Registered User
Mar 24, 2018
3,249
3,414
Edmonton, Alberta
Yes I seem to remember that.
Gretz has the famous one in Edmonton.
Stajan actually cried at the end of a fight while playing for leafs. o_O
And Subbans debacle in Montreal.
Bobby Orr choked up a bit when he had to retire at the age of 30. I cried along with him.

With Gretzky, what I remember most is when he acted like a baby after the Habs won the 93 Cup. He went on HNIC after the game and hinted at retirement, which then became a bigger story than the Habs winning, which I thought was an a-hole-ish move on his part, especially considering that he didn't retire for another 6 years.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PaulD

PaulD

Time for a new GM !
Feb 4, 2016
28,755
15,808
Dundas
Bobby Orr choked up a bit when he had to retire at the age of 30. I cried along with him.

With Gretzky, what I remember most is when he acted like a baby after the Habs won the 93 Cup. He went on HNIC after the game and hinted at retirement, which then became a bigger story than the Habs winning, which I thought was an a-hole-ish move on his part, especially considering that he didn't retire for another 6 years.

Hey I forgot about that, but Gretz did talk about retiring after the Habs kicked his ass. :nod: Ahh. 93. What a great spring and summer that was. :partytime:

Retirement tear or two from anyone, athlete or not gets a pass.
 

EdAVSfan

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Aug 28, 2009
7,325
4,321
Exactly. Thats your opinion.
Are you seriously saying those that have a different opinion than yours are just "arguing for the sake of it" Everyone that agrees with your opinion is right. lol :laugh:

No, that’s not what I’m saying at all. Not sure why you’d think that. Have any of my posts come off that way?

I’m simply saying that just because there’s a different point of view from the other side, doesn’t qualify it as an actual debate.

People need to bring actual facts into their discussionand back up what they’re saying. Most don’t.

Or am I supposed to read, “Weber is a better defenseman in every conceivable way,” as proof that there’s logic coming from the other side? That’s not a debate. That’s just nonsense.
If 5 people told you Drouin is more skilled than McDavid, but don’t back it up, is that an actual debate? Does that kind of statement affirm what you previously said that, “and they are so close the debate ifs going on two years now. If it was so one sided there would be no debate.”

Just because there’s a disagreement, doesn’t mean one side or the other actually has merit.

I’m more than happy to discuss. But bring something to the table.
 

PaulD

Time for a new GM !
Feb 4, 2016
28,755
15,808
Dundas
No, that’s not what I’m saying at all. Not sure why you’d think that. Have any of my posts come off that way?

I’m simply saying that just because there’s a different point of view from the other side, doesn’t qualify it as an actual debate.

People need to bring actual facts into their discussionand back up what they’re saying. Most don’t.

Or am I supposed to read, “Weber is a better defenseman in every conceivable way,” as proof that there’s logic coming from the other side? That’s not a debate. That’s just nonsense.
If 5 people told you Drouin is more skilled than McDavid, but don’t back it up, is that an actual debate? Does that kind of statement affirm what you previously said that, “and they are so close the debate ifs going on two years now. If it was so one sided there would be no debate.”

Just because there’s a disagreement, doesn’t mean one side or the other actually has merit.

I’m more than happy to discuss. But bring something to the table.
 

PaulD

Time for a new GM !
Feb 4, 2016
28,755
15,808
Dundas
I have brought something to the table. Not the example you just quoted however. The EXTREME example you use "Weber is better in every conceivable way" is probably shared by ONE GUY.
You wanna argue that point as if thousands are saying it go ahead.

I have said the two number one D are close close. (Probably 50 times since the trade). Im happy with either one on my team. If it was a horse race I would predict a photo finish. Subban by a nose.
I also stated many times because of the age difference, Habs should have got a second round pick (at least) with Weber. Strictly for the 4 year difference in youth on PKs side. But Biff Bergy is a moron but their are 500 other threads for that piece of common knowledge.

I don't think fans of either PK or Shea can be considered outrageously offside for picking one over the other.
They are the two best D to play for Montreal since Chris Chelios.

Its a who do you like better? Beatles or Stones scenario .

PK is the Beatles. Weber is the Stones. ;)
 
Last edited:

EdAVSfan

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Aug 28, 2009
7,325
4,321
I have brought something to the table. the EXTREME example you use "Weber is better in every conceivable way" is probably shared by ONE GUY.
You wanna argue that point like thousands are saying it go ahead.

I have said they are close. Im happy with either one. If it was a horse race I would pick Subban by a nose. I also have stated many times because of the age difference Habs should have got a second round pick at least with Weber.

I dont think fans of either star player are outrageously offside for picking one over the other.
They are the two best D to play for Montreal since Chris Chelios.

Its a Beatles or the Stones scenario ? ;)

But see, if you’ve read my actual posts concerning the two, I share your sentiment. I think they’re somewhat close as well. But I believe Subban is clearly ahead. To you it’s a nose, to me, it’s a full head.

Again, I’m not basing my opinion on that one poster. I take most habs fans opinions less than more neutral fans. Simply because, many of them could have more bias behind their decisions, especially because of the anti and pro Bergevin position.

And I wasn’t talking to you specifically when I said bring something to the table. It wasn’t about you. It was a general thought to anyone trying to argue that Weber is more effective than Subban. I have no problem with difference of opinion. I welcome it. But I’m going to ask anyone to back it up.

The issue is, you came into a discussion that I was having with that ONE GUY, arguing about how there’s a debate. I’m pretty sure you weren’t validating his opinion. But your timing was not good. It came off as you giving validation to that type of reasoning, which IMO, is utter nonsense. “Better in every conceivable way, PK fanboys, millennial, etc”

If you’ve read the thread, you’d see I’m more than welcoming to discuss differences of opinions. Ive has several discussions with 417 on several different topics we disagree on. Yet it’s still a cordial discussion with actual content.

It seems more people are interesting in delivering a hot one-liner, and escaping, rather than actually believing and defending what they’re saying. (Again, this is a general thought)
 
Last edited:

Grate n Colorful Oz

Hutson Hawk
Jun 12, 2007
35,310
32,163
Hockey Mecca
Again, for me, two excellent Dmen who both have flaws preventing them from belonging to the absolute elite tier of Dmen in the NHL.


They all have flaws ffs.

Doughty, Karlsson, Burns, Hedman... whoever. None of them is Lidstrom. People are jerkin off to Hedman, but most of the time he doesn't need to look that much for an open pass. He gathers points on the backs of two amazing offensive players. Not that Hedman is a chump offensively, but he's not as creative as guys like Subban or Karlsson. Same with the others. Doughty loses the puck often and can make bonehead plays just as much as PK. Burns is not a strong puckhandler. Piet is a good at everything overall, but isnt top notch at anything except maybe passing.
 

PaulD

Time for a new GM !
Feb 4, 2016
28,755
15,808
Dundas
But see, if you’ve read my actual posts concerning the two, I share your sentiment. I think they’re somewhat close as well. But I believe Subban is clearly ahead. To you it’s a nose, to me, it’s a full head.

Again, I’m not basing my opinion on that one poster. I take most habs fans opinions less than more neutral fans. Simply because, many of them could have more bias behind their decisions, especially because of the anti and pro Bergevin position.

And I wasn’t talking to you specifically when I said bring something to the table. It wasn’t about you. It was a general thought to anyone trying to argue that Weber is more effective than Subban. I have no problem with difference of opinion. I welcome it. But I’m going to ask anyone to back it up.

The issue is, you came into a discussion that I was having with that ONE GUY, arguing about how there’s a debate. I’m pretty sure you weren’t validating his opinion. But your timing was not good. It came off as you giving validation to that type of reasoning, which IMO, is utter nonsense. “Better in every conceivable way, PK fanboys, millennial, etc”

If you’ve read the thread, you’d see I’m more than welcoming to discuss differences of opinions. Ive has several discussions with 417 on several different topics we disagree on. Yet it’s still a cordial discussion with actual content.

It seems more people are interesting in delivering a hot one-liner, and escaping, rather than actually believing and defending what they’re saying. (Again, this is a general thought)
Very well said.
I stand (slightly) corrected.
I see that my "timing was not good" as I jumped in on your discussion.
 

417

BBQ Chicken Alert!
Feb 20, 2003
51,255
27,464
Ottawa
They all have flaws ffs.

Doughty, Karlsson, Burns, Hedman... whoever. None of them is Lidstrom. People are jerkin off to Hedman, but most of the time he doesn't need to look that much for an open pass. He gathers points on the backs of two amazing offensive players. Not that Hedman is a chump offensively, but he's not as creative as guys like Subban or Karlsson. Same with the others. Doughty loses the puck often and can make bonehead plays just as much as PK. Burns is not a strong puckhandler. Piet is a good at everything overall, but isnt top notch at anything except maybe passing.
Maybe I didn't express myself clearly - I didn't mean the top tier Dmen are flawless.

Just meant that IMO, Subban and Weber's flaws, prevent them from being considered amongst the very select and exclusive group of who I consider to be the best Dmen.

As for Hedman, not sure I agree with your assessment either...probably not a Dman I'd take on my team other than him right now. I think he's the prototype.

Big big Hedman fan
 

PaulD

Time for a new GM !
Feb 4, 2016
28,755
15,808
Dundas
They all have flaws ffs.

Doughty, Karlsson, Burns, Hedman... whoever. None of them is Lidstrom. People are jerkin off to Hedman, but most of the time he doesn't need to look that much for an open pass. He gathers points on the backs of two amazing offensive players. Not that Hedman is a chump offensively, but he's not as creative as guys like Subban or Karlsson. Same with the others. Doughty loses the puck often and can make bonehead plays just as much as PK. Burns is not a strong puckhandler. Piet is a good at everything overall, but isnt top notch at anything except maybe passing.
Hard guy to impress. ha!
If you can find all that wrong with the norris trophy candidates .....i guess the habs Dmen 2 through 8 are flat out dogshit on blades. :sarcasm: All but Weber.
Kidding of course......but I wouldn't disagree all the same.
 

PaulD

Time for a new GM !
Feb 4, 2016
28,755
15,808
Dundas
Maybe I didn't express myself clearly - I didn't mean the top tier Dmen are flawless.

Just meant that IMO, Subban and Weber's flaws, prevent them from being considered amongst the very select and exclusive group of who I consider to be the best Dmen.

As for Hedman, not sure I agree with your assessment either...probably not a Dman I'd take on my team other than him right now. I think he's the prototype.

Big big Hedman fan
I like Hedman too. Doughty and Burns can be dominant when they get serious.

btw Milbury calls PK a clown? Ever take a good look at Burns during warm up/games/and commercials? :laugh:
 

Bryson

#EugeneMolson
Jun 25, 2008
7,113
4,321
Maybe I didn't express myself clearly - I didn't mean the top tier Dmen are flawless.

Just meant that IMO, Subban and Weber's flaws, prevent them from being considered amongst the very select and exclusive group of who I consider to be the best Dmen.

As for Hedman, not sure I agree with your assessment either...probably not a Dman I'd take on my team other than him right now. I think he's the prototype.

Big big Hedman fan

I'm curious what does Hedman bring to the table that Subban does not? What makes Hedman a clear cut tier above Subban? I get it we all have our favorites but to say that they are in different tiers is ridiculous considering they both have about the same number of points keeping in mind that the team's point leader in Nashville is Arvidsson with 58 points meanwhile Tampa is the #1 offense in the league with multiple 50+ point forwards including Kucherov with 96 points!! You don't think that Subban would be racking up tons of points on that team with his buddy Stamkos?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kaperi Spacey

417

BBQ Chicken Alert!
Feb 20, 2003
51,255
27,464
Ottawa
I'm curious what does Hedman bring to the table that Subban does not? What makes Hedman a clear cut tier above Subban? I get it we all have our favorites but to say that they are in different tiers is ridiculous considering they both have about the same number of points keeping in mind that the team's point leader in Nashville is Arvidsson with 58 points meanwhile Tampa is the #1 offense in the league with multiple 50+ point forwards including Kucherov with 96 points!! You don't think that Subban would be racking up tons of points on that team?
Points have very little to do with how I evaluate both players.

Just like I prefer Subban to Weber...

I prefer Hedman to Subban...

That's going to have to be enough for you, last thing I wanna do is to get into a debate comparing Subban to anyone.

You're not curious about my opinion, you want to get into a silly argument because I have an opinion you don't agree with.

Some things need to be justified...

Preferring Hedman over Subban, isn't one of those.
 

Habsawce

Registered User
Nov 16, 2010
31,299
2,603
Canada
The only thing Hedman has over Subban imo is height. Skill, drive and talent, no. But Hedman has all that length which he uses to his advantage and makes playing on the defensive side of the game naturally easier for him. Credit to him for using it to his advantage; but I can't for the life of me seeing a talent gap.

Maybe I just really like Subban and feel like he needs defending more than others cause of how he's treated. But I also think talent wise he's in the very elite.
 

Bryson

#EugeneMolson
Jun 25, 2008
7,113
4,321
Points have very little to do with how I evaluate both players.

Just like I prefer Subban to Weber...

I prefer Hedman to Subban...

That's going to have to be enough for you, last thing I wanna do is to get into a debate comparing Subban to anyone.

You're not curious about my opinion, you want to get into a silly argument because I have an opinion you don't agree with.

I have very little time or energy for silly arguments. If I can learn something along the way then I'm game. If you come out and say that Hedman is your favorite defenseman then that's fine, no one can argue that.

But if you come out and say that Subban and Hedman are in different tiers like it's a fact then that has to be based on facts not opinion. What Subban did in the playoffs last year was nothing short of Goddamn miraculous, completely shutting down the other teams top offensive players and sweeping the multiple Stanley Cup winning Chicago Blackhawks. That last sentence is a fact. See the difference?
 

417

BBQ Chicken Alert!
Feb 20, 2003
51,255
27,464
Ottawa
The only thing Hedman has over Subban imo is height. Skill, drive and talent, no. But Hedman has all that length which he uses to his advantage and makes playing on the defensive side of the game naturally easier for him. Credit to him for using it to his advantage; but I can't for the life of me seeing a talent gap.

Maybe I just really like Subban and feel like he needs defending more than others cause of how he's treated. But I also think talent wise he's in the very elite.
not sure what you're defending to be honest.

I said I prefer Hedman to Subban.

That's not a knock on Subban

Hit squad out in full effect!
 

417

BBQ Chicken Alert!
Feb 20, 2003
51,255
27,464
Ottawa
I have very little time or energy for silly arguments. If I can learn something along the way then I'm game. If you come out and say that Hedman is your favorite defenseman then that's fine, no one can argue that.

But if you come out and say that Subban and Hedman are in different tiers like it's a fact then that has to be based on facts not opinion. What Subban did in the playoffs last year was nothing short of Goddamn miraculous, completely shutting down the other teams top offensive players and sweeping the multiple Stanley Cup winning Chicago Blackhawks. That last sentence is a fact. See the difference?
It was my opinion....I never presented it as a fact.

Another member of the Subban hit squad flexing lol

I suppose short of thinking that Subban is the best Dman in the world, I have to defend my opinion l

Ridiculous
 

Bryson

#EugeneMolson
Jun 25, 2008
7,113
4,321
It was my opinion....I never presented it as a fact.

Another member of the Subban hit squad flexing lol

Then you're just acting stupid and have no credability. We are all here to discuss sports, if you're going to say that something is better than something else then there has to be a reason or else it's just useless banter and will be duely noted for next time. It's no wonder you get into so many arguments since you pass your opinions has facts and you can't back it up and get stuck having to backpedal so often.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Grate n Colorful Oz

417

BBQ Chicken Alert!
Feb 20, 2003
51,255
27,464
Ottawa
Then you're just acting stupid and have no credability. We are all here to discuss sports, if you're going to say that something is better than something else then there has to be a reason or else it's just useless banter and will be duely noted for next time. It's no wonder you get into so many arguments since you pass your opinions has facts and you can't back it up and get stuck having to backpedal so often.
I swear you think I said Alzner > Subban lol

Look, my opinion is that I think Hedman is not only better than Subban, I think he's the best Dman in the league.

I suspect that MANY people who watch hockey also believe that.

If that makes me (us) stupid...so be it.

Also I never pass this off as fact...I'm sure the person I was debating this with understood that.

It's not my fault you can't understand the difference between an opinion and fact.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->