Our Bottom 6 needs change, thoughts

[JGaudreau]

Was at the game yesterday and some things seemed apparent;

1. Our bottom 6; especially Stajan, Glass, Versteeg, Ferland and Bennett struggled. At this point I’d advocate for giving our young players any of these players spots. Bennett sitting will probably help. He was sulking so badly it noticeably dampened the mood in the Dome, looked like he was ready to cry. Needs to sort his head out.

2. Our offense consisted of stopping at the half-boards and trying to start a cycle. Carolina picked up on it about 5 minutes into the game and we became entirely too predictable. Too afraid to pass between d-men.

3. Only Gaudreau and Jagr can consistently produce offensive chances. We should split up the offensive lines so that there’s a producer on all of the top 3 lines that can create opportunities. Give Jankowski and Dube a chance, see if we can create lines that are tougher to defend against. With the offense as is we basically rely on Gaudreau to do everything and it won’t work in the long run, he can’t gain entry into the zone effectively enough to be the one driving the play all the time. It’s amazing watching the smallest guy consistently be the one driving the play and the possession, and a bad sign that our forwards are lacking.

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[Janks]

I don't think you're wrong here. After our first 7, our top 6F and 4D are +10 combined. The bottom 6F and 3D is a combined -22. Not saying they're all our problems, but they are getting burned badly.

Stats taken from /r/flames for reference

 

[JGaudreau]

It seemed like it was their reaction time more than anything. Jagr while slower to accelerate had much faster reaction time than our bottom 6. All of them have comparatively slow reaction times and were consistently behind the play, that was how we were beat. Brouwer seems to have a lot better reflexes than any of the other bottom 6 guys so there's a silver lining I guess.

Carolina was so fast on the forecheck and with their decision making it was classic suppression tactics that essentially crippled our north south transitions because our bottom 6 couldn't receive a pass.

 

[Dack]

The entire team is really poor forcheckers I've noticed. The start of the season has lead to me watching other teams play and you guys might be surprised to hear this but I've noticed that just because the other team forces a dump in doesn't mean it need to be an automatic turnover. I don't know if it's a systematic thing or just a thing these players as a whole struggle with but they cannot seem to force the other teams defence into a turnover.

Also what's with the defense conceeding the blue line no matter who is coming down on them. It could be one 4th line plug with no other player in sight and our defense would still let him enter the zone easily.

Then there is our breakouts and break ins which are terrible and that's on the coach. I kind of wish I had NHL TV or something so I could watch them try and breakout and really figure out what the problem is. It's not something I pay that close of attention to in the middle of the game.

 

[Fig]

I'm blaming system more at this point (due to new one being learned), bad chemistry so far isn't helping either. Personally, I'm looking closer to game 10 or 15 before I comment. Look, it's not dire situation right now. Think for a second, OP didn't mention Brouwer. Is this an issue with the above players? Easy scape goats? Or what?

A single goal in 3 losses is a team issue. Not just a bottom 6 issue. The common point is the system these players all play in. One that is currently being tweaked to include Smith's puck handling facet. We also have not seen the system with Lack in net. We know this team can score. But I honestly believe the team on occasion over focuses on defense while learning the system.

Time will tell, but IMO, I don't have an issue with the roster yet. Except Glass. Didn't like that signing, even more annoyed that there's little evidence that a kid should have played above him after preseason. He earned that PTO, no kids stepped up at the time. That's cut and dry. I hope a kid forces management's hand and make Glass the next Grossman.

 

[Baxterman]

I didn't mind the 4th line coming into the season because if the top line is the top line and the 3M line is producing like last year I thought there would be enough offense from the defense and 3rd line that having a 4th line that wouldn't hurt you and could match-up against any line and survive would be fine.

The problem so far this year is that outside of Monahan and Gaudreau nobody up front has provided any offense. The 3M line doesn't have the offensive magic from last year and while they are still an effective line the lack of offense hurts. The 3rd line has been a disaster partially because of the players and partially because of the constant shuffling guys in and out.

I think we have seen enough early on that changes should be made. Glass, Brouwer, Stajan is too slow and there is no creativity to be a line together. The problem is none of the 3 should be playing up in the line-up either. I like Glass and think that he has played as well as expected but there just might not be a spot for him on this team through no real fault of his own of his play.

I still like Stajan on this team because I think that he provides some stability on his line and does a lot of the little things needed to help out and cover for mistakes from others. The problem is that he shouldn't have to cover for vets like Glass and Brouwer. I think Stajan and Versteeg could work as Versteeg can provide creativity and puck skills while Stajan will be in the right spot to cover for Versteegs "lapses." Maybe put Ferland there to be the forechecker/puck retriever I think that could work as the 4th line.

I have posted numerous line-ups lately so this probably contradicts them but thinking about it from a bottom 6 perspective what about something like:

Ferland-Stajan-Versteeg
Frolik-Backlund-Brouwer/Jankowski
Gaudreau-Bennett-Lazar
Tkachuk-Monahan-Jagr

I really worry about Gaudreau having to do way too much offensively on that line and a little concerned about the Monahan lines speed and potential for getting killed in transition but it does seem to spread out the creativity a bit and allow for potential offense in every line.

 

[InfinityIggy]

Wacky idea:

Tkachuk - Monahan - Gaudreau
Bennett - Backlund - Jagr
Versteeg - Jankowski - Ferland
Glass - Stajan - Lazar/Brouwer

 

[Baxterman]

Give Jankowski and Dube a chance, see if we can create lines that are tougher to defend against.

Dube is in the WHL he can't some up this year.

 

[Baxterman]

Wacky idea:

Tkachuk - Monahan - Gaudreau
Bennett - Backlund - Jagr
Versteeg - Jankowski - Ferland
Glass - Stajan - Lazar/Brouwer

No Frolik?

 

[Rangediddy]

Wacky idea:

Tkachuk - Monahan - Gaudreau
Bennett - Backlund - Jagr
Versteeg - Jankowski - Ferland
Glass - Stajan - Lazar/Brouwer

Frolik hasn't been that bad...

 

[InfinityIggy]

Frolik hasn't been that bad...

Oops mean't to put him where I have Ferland, and Ferland... somewhere else.

 

[Skobel24]

It won't happen for many reasons, but I'd almost be curious enough to recall the entire Mangiapane - Jankowski - Hathaway line.

For now though;

Gaudreau - Monahan - Jagr
Bennett - Backlund - Versteeg
Tkachuk - Jankowski - Frolik
Ferland - Hamilton - Lazar

I really like the looks of these lines.

- The first line will produce.
- The second line gives Backlund some more offensive players, and takes some weight off his shoulders for taking the tougher minutes.
- Jankowski gets the chance to develop as that strong two-way guy. Frolik and Tkachuk there to back him up, that line could produce at a decent rate too.
- I'm not the biggest Freddie fan, but I'd like to see him get another chance. 4th line becomes a gritty/energy line

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

The first change I would make to our bottom six would not be the bottom six, but rather to swap Matt Bartkowski / Brett Kulak ASAP.

That will change the depth lineups' puck possession. More puck possession will produce more goals and better goal differentials. And it will cause more line changes to be executed in the offensive zone rather than in the defensive zone, allowing the higher lineups to improve their puck possession, in turn allowing the depth lineups to improve their puck possession. Kulak can also hit the net with his point shot.

Everyone will benefit.

Second I would replace Tanner Glass with an actually offensively talented ice hockey player like Mangiapane.

Finally I would put Gaudreau with Bennett and Monahan with Versteeg.

 

[Calculon]

While I think much of the Bennett stuff over the last little bit is hilarious hyperbole, this is exactly why Jankowski should have been on the opening roster, even if yes, it was on the fourth line. It's a lot easier to move Jankowski up the line up when players ahead are struggling then it is to recall him from the minors given all it entails.

It just goes back to the Flames being overly attached to their mediocre veterans. Stajan should not be an everyday player. Same for Glass. Same for Versteeg given how hot/cold he is. And like Glencross, Jones, Wideman, etc.. before them, these players will also struggle to get NHL deals the moment they become free agents. Which frankly, just shows the shoddy state of affairs in Calgary.

Waive Hamilton and send him down. Call up Jankowski. Scratch Glass or Stajan. Run with

Tkachuk-Monahan-Jagr
Gaudreau-Bennett-Ferland
Versteeg-Backlund-Frolik
Stajan-Jankowski-Brouwer/Lazar
Lazar/Glass

If Bennett can't find the scoresheet soon, switch him and Bennett around. Next year, replace guys like Versteeg, Stajan and Jagr with skilled, speedy forecheckers like Dube, Lomberg, Hathaway and maybe look at guys like Grabner and Perron in free agency. Flames need to stop acting like dinosaurs and accept that the modern NHL is based around speedy and/or hungry young players looking to carve out a career for themselves .

Oh and of course, #freeKulak. There's something very wrong with either the drafting, developmental process or management, or maybe all three if there's no one in the system that can beat out Bartkowski for that sixth position. Just some serious ineptitude at every level.

 

[Baxterman]

I guess with the way Smith is playing putting Kulak in wouldn't be as bad as it was in the past. Smith would be much better at saving those grade A chances Kulak creates with his passes to the other team and butter soft defensive play.

 

[Deen]

I don't know why they didn't keep Chiasson over Glass.

 

[JPeeper]

I know it will never happen, but I'd like to see our 4th line as Stockton's current 1st line:

Mangiapane-Jankowski-Hathaway

Would go from having the most expensive and useless 4th line to a fast, young scoring 4th line. Then when they inevitably are overplayed by GG, they score rather than get hemmed in their own zone with Bart and Stone.

Gaudreau-Bennett-Lazar
Tkachuk-Monahan-Jagr
Brouwer-Backlund-Frolik
Mangiapane-Jankowski-Hathaway

Also, holy crap, it took like 6 minutes writing this post with how slow and laggy this site is. What was HF thinking? Let's go back to dial up speeds with our servers?

 

[Janks]

I don't know why they didn't keep Chiasson over Glass.

Truculence

 

[Mobiandi]

Our bottom 6 can't score to save their lives

In an ideal world, we'd run this year with:

Tkachuk-Bennett-Gaudreau
Frolik-Backlund-Jagr
Jankowski-Monahan-Versteeg/Lazar
Versteeg/Lazar-Stajan-Hathaway/Ferland

Brouwer, Glass

There is going to be a mass exodus of forwards in the offseason. I doubt we see Jagr, Stajan, Versteeg, Brouwer, Glass (and maybe even Lazar and/or Hathaway) in a Flames jersey next season, which opens up a lot of spots.

So we'll have the chance to run:

Tkachuk-Bennett-Gaudreau
Jankowski-Backlund-Frolik
Ferland-Monahan-(Lazar/FA/Trade)
Mangiapane-F.Hamilton-(Hathaway/FA/Trade)

 

[Skobel24]

Very safe bet to say Jankowski is 100% in the top 9 next year. Good chance any of Dube, Mangiapane, and Klimchuk would make the team as well. It'll be exciting.

Unless they re-sign guys like Glass and Stajan.

 

[JGaudreau]

I am beginning to think Bennett won't reach the levels most thought. I get that it seems ridiculous at this point but he has serious issues with his game, I'm thinking he rounds out to third line and 1/2 ends up going to Monahan and Jankowski.

I could be wrong and he could end up as an 8 million dollar #1 but I haven't really even seen flashes of it out of him yet at all. We should trade Backlund for a winger that can produce offense if Jankowski proves capable.

 

[Lunatik]

Very safe bet to say Jankowski is 100% in the top 9 next year. Good chance any of Dube, Mangiapane, and Klimchuk would make the team as well. It'll be exciting.

Unless they re-sign guys like Glass and Stajan.

What do Stajan and Glass have to do with players making the top 9? They are 4th liners and have no impact on who is in the top 9. Versteeg is the only re-signing that would impact the top 9

 

[DFF]

Bottom 6 should be competitive with guys fight for jobs

On the Flames, it consists of overpaid vets, nepotism and high draft pick busts that cant be demoted.

Why should any of them need to work that hard?

 

[Skobel24]

What do Stajan and Glass have to do with players making the top 9? They are 4th liners and have no impact on who is in the top 9. Versteeg is the only re-signing that would impact the top 9

Janks is the only one I can see being a clear shot for the top 9. Mangiapane and Klimchuk, I'd guess they start on the 4th line. I like Stajan, but I think the Flames need to move on (unless he was willing to take a very cheap one year deal)

 

[Deen]

Mangiapane is like 4 feet tall, they aren't gonna put him on the 4th line.