OT: Other Sports aka #Broncos #SellRockiesSell #Nuggets

[Bonzai12]

Fat's number should have been up there a long time ago

I do wonder if they will retire Carmelo's; odd situation since he asked to be out of here.

 

[ABasin]

A quick shout out to Ivan and Bonzai:

Check out the article in the Denver Post today. Good read. Lots of information around the current state of NFL offensive lines today. We've discussed a number of these points in the past - spread QB play in college, talent disparity between OL/DL in college, etc. But a few new points in there I hadn't considered.

Offensive lines of Broncos, others in the NFL are facing their biggest obstacles in years

 

[Bonzai12]

thanks for sharing that definitely is a great article

I don't know how I feel about the OL coach statements - Alex Gibbs never played OL and was a great coach but he's probably the exception not the norm.

The 5/7 step drops in college though - that's a super legitimate point. They really do need to bring back NFL Europe or some form of developmental league. The NCAA is just way too dumbed down.

 

[famicommander]

The Nuggets (tied with the Celtics and Spurs) have the best home record in the NBA at 10-2. 3-7 on the road, though.

If they can tread water until Millsap gets back in February I think they're going to be a playoff team still. Jokic should be back in a few more games so that's not long term.

The team responded well on defense when Richard Jefferson got into these last couple games. If you watch the games on TV you can actually hear him yelling out instructions to the younger guys and it makes a big difference. Guys like Murray, Barton, and Juancho manage to get themselves out of position on defense pretty often and Jefferson corrected it on the fly.

 

[ASmileyFace]

I turned the game on and we immediately give up a safety. Don't torture yourself with Broncos football today.

 

[BobRossColton]

So have we been rooting for Giants and 49ers?

 

[Bonzai12]

Jimmy G looks good today. Hope the 49ers have found their man.

 

[ASmileyFace]

I'm not much of a College Football guy but how did Bama get into the playoffs without winning their conference and the team they lost to losing in that same championship?

 

[VikingAv]

I'm not much of a College Football guy but how did Bama get into the playoffs without winning their conference and the team they lost to losing in that same championship?

The names "Alabama" and "Nick Saban" is a huge reason. Also, the loss to Auburn was their only one. With the Championship-loss, Auburn had 3 losses total, no way they were getting in.

In addition, last year the committee picked Ohio St over Penn St when the exact same situation happened, so there was precedent.

Ironically, the 4th spot this year was between Alabama and Ohio St, but the latter had two losses, one of which was a really, really bad one.

 

[famicommander]

I'm not much of a College Football guy but how did Bama get into the playoffs without winning their conference and the team they lost to losing in that same championship?

Ohio State lost 2 games, one of which was by 31 points to Iowa. And they got blown out by Oklahoma. Big Ten Champion or no, they got blown out twice.

And Clemson lost to a 4-8 Syracuse team.

Oklahoma lost at home to a 7-5 Iowa State team.

Alabama lost one game, to the team that finished #7, on the road, in a rivalry game. The same team that gave Georgia their only loss.

Alabama and Georgia have the "best" loss of the top teams by far.

If Alabama had lost their one game at the beginning of the season nobody would question them being in the playoff. A loss at the end of the season counts against you more, for whatever reason. It shouldn't be easier to recover from losing to Syracuse at midseason than it is to recover from losing to Auburn at the end of the year.

 

[Bonzai12]

Do you think it’s possible that coaches may be directed to put their team in bad situations in order to intentionally lose games?

Players are always going to play their hearts out in order to cash in on their next contract. And good coaches put their players in the best position to win.

Is it possible that coaches deliberately put their players in bad positions so that the team will lose? The player can still give maximum effort but maybe the coach deliberately tells the player to rush a gap or position himself in the field where the coach knows they won’t have an impact and the defense/offense will fail?

I gotta think it happens.

 

[JWK]

I'm not much of a College Football guy but how did Bama get into the playoffs without winning their conference and the team they lost to losing in that same championship?

Because of their brand

Bama has 0 quality wins, I didn't think they should have been 4th based on resume but they're in because they're Bama and the Clemson vs. Bama for 3rd straight year was something the CFB committee couldn't pass on. That said, OSU can't blame anyone but themselves. Can't lose to Iowa (it's at Kinnick and all but) by 31 points. USC should have gotten more talk for the 4th seed, they had the higher SOS and more wins against the top 40 teams than Bama and OSU.

Auburn got hosed because of the conference championship game too. Georgia, Auburn and Bama were all 7-1 inside the conference, and Auburn beat both Georgia and Bama in the regular season, but was penalized for losing an extra game.

 

[Pokecheque]

Do you think it’s possible that coaches may be directed to put their team in bad situations in order to intentionally lose games?

Players are always going to play their hearts out in order to cash in on their next contract. And good coaches put their players in the best position to win.

Is it possible that coaches deliberately put their players in bad positions so that the team will lose? The player can still give maximum effort but maybe the coach deliberately tells the player to rush a gap or position himself in the field where the coach knows they won’t have an impact and the defense/offense will fail?

I gotta think it happens.

I don't think a coach would ever do something to purposely jeopardize his job. The closest thing I can think of is the Giants intentionally benching Eli for a completely unproven rookie, but I just think that's them somehow convincing themselves they have a better chance of winning, not tanking outright.

What happens more than likely is that the front office strips the roster down to the point where the coach simply can't win, but I can't imagine a coach purposely spiking a game.

 

[chet1926]

Committee got it wrong, Alabama had no right to be in the final 4. They've got to make sweeping changes to how the teams can even qualify for the final 4.

There has to be a very distinct, if you don't win your conference you can't even be qualified for the final 4. Period. None of this, but they're a good team crap. If you aren't good enough to win your conference, you aren't good enough to compete for a national championship. Period.

The only teams that should have been considered for the final 4 were the champs for each conference:
Big 12: Oklahoma
Big 10: Ohio St
ACC: Clemson
SEC: Georgia
Pac-12: USC
maybe consider an independent school like Notre Dame had they been a 1 loss or undefeated team.
to a lesser extent:
all the champs of the lesser conference, but lets be real one of these schools would have to do somehting other-worldly to have a chance.

So basically this year it should have been Clemson, Oklahoma, Georgia and then a debate between USC or Ohio St, where I'd say USC would have been the better choice.

But instead you have a school who made it in the final four who didn't win their division, let alone a championship. They basically made it in to the final 4 based on reputation.

I can't wait for Clemson to beat the living hell out of them, and show the committee that they were just wrong on this one.

 

[Bonzai12]

I can’t imagine it either but as close as Joseph is to Elway I wonder if Elway’s given him direction to not win games. Obviously he’d have to also give him a promise that he’s going to stick around.

 

[chet1926]

Because of their brand

Bama has 0 quality wins, I didn't think they should have been 4th based on resume but they're in because they're Bama and the Clemson vs. Bama for 3rd straight year was something the CFB committee couldn't pass on. That said, OSU can't blame anyone but themselves. Can't lose to Iowa (it's at Kinnick and all but) by 31 points. USC should have gotten more talk for the 4th seed, they had the higher SOS and more wins against the top 40 teams than Bama and OSU.

Auburn got hosed because of the conference championship game too. Georgia, Auburn and Bama were all 7-1 inside the conference, and Auburn beat both Georgia and Bama in the regular season, but was penalized for losing an extra game.

College football's system is very flawed and Auburn did get the shaft for having to play an extra game. If I was Auburn, I'm sitting there saying I have wins over Georgia and Alabama and only lost by one score to Clemson on the road but they're all in the final four and we're not.

Alabama got in solely based on reputation, like you said they haven't won a big game all season. Their best wins are against #3 Florida St who went on to have a terrible season at 6-6 and finished way outside the top 25, and #19 LSU at home. Compared to Ohio St who beat #2 Penn St, #12 Michigan St, # 4 Wisconsin sure it had a bad loss to Iowa but at least they beat some good teams as well.

 

[chet1926]

I can’t imagine it either but as close as Joseph is to Elway I wonder if Elway’s given him direction to not win games. Obviously he’d have to also give him a promise that he’s going to stick around.

Highly unlikely, no one ever instructs their coach to purposely lose at the NFL level. At this point we can't out tank the Browns, so we can't get #1, no point to tank.

VJ is just a terrible coach that hasn't had his team ready to compete since week 2. It really pathetic to watch a coach that is as ill-prepared as VJ, his guys are simply just not ready to compete, you can tell by all the mistakes that are made on a game by game basis.

If Elway wants to win, VJ has to go, it's very simple.

 

[ASmileyFace]

While I think Joseph has become the catch all scapegoat for a terrible team (much like Bednar was last season) he has to go after this season.

In my eyes the CFBP committee chose Bama because that Clemson v. Bama game is too hard to pass up. That game is going to be gooooood

 

[ABasin]

While I think Joseph has become the catch all scapegoat for a terrible team (much like Bednar was last season) he has to go after this season.

In my eyes the CFBP committee chose Bama because that Clemson v. Bama game is too hard to pass up. That game is going to be gooooood

Honestly, I don't have a huge problem with Alabama being in there. They lost one game to the same team that Georgia lost their one game, and Alabama was down by but one score in the 4th quarter. They didn't have many awesome wins, but the didn't have any bad losses either. Clemson, Georgia, Ohio State all had bad losses (either to a lame team, or a total blowout loss).

In the end, I would have been OK with either Alabama or Ohio State getting in. But I'm not up in arms about it.

On the VJ front, yeah - the Broncos are almost comical at this point. They are unprepared to play.

 

[Bonzai12]

I want Russell gone, moreso than VJ.

Russell's player personnel decisions have been downright awful and his push for his buddy/college teammate VJ has been a disaster.

I give VJ a little bit of a break because it's his first year, although I firmly believe he was not qualified at all to be a head coach. I'm willing to give him another year. I also believe he should be given full rein to hire/fire whatever assistants he wants. Elway's gotta butt out of that. It seems like 1/2 - 3/4 of the staff were Elways picks, not VJ's. Even as much as I don't think VJ is qualified, to not let a HC hire his own staff on his own accord is just ridiculous.

 

[Hasbro]

I can’t imagine it either but as close as Joseph is to Elway I wonder if Elway’s given him direction to not win games. Obviously he’d have to also give him a promise that he’s going to stick around.

He had to axe some good friends from the Crush like Kieth Bishop and Michael Young with the much lower stakes of Arena Football, so I’d expect cronyism to get Vance only so far.

Intentional or not, losing is the best course for this team.

 

[Ivan13]

A quick shout out to Ivan and Bonzai:

Check out the article in the Denver Post today. Good read. Lots of information around the current state of NFL offensive lines today. We've discussed a number of these points in the past - spread QB play in college, talent disparity between OL/DL in college, etc. But a few new points in there I hadn't considered.

Offensive lines of Broncos, others in the NFL are facing their biggest obstacles in years

Thanks AB, really good read, that touches on some of the more stuff we already discussed (spread, the disparity in athleticism), but also on some of the stuff which isn't that obvious like training. The NFL needs a development league, NCAA might as well be a different sport given the schemes employed there.

 

[Xokkeu]

The Nuggets (tied with the Celtics and Spurs) have the best home record in the NBA at 10-2. 3-7 on the road, though.

If they can tread water until Millsap gets back in February I think they're going to be a playoff team still. Jokic should be back in a few more games so that's not long term.

The team responded well on defense when Richard Jefferson got into these last couple games. If you watch the games on TV you can actually hear him yelling out instructions to the younger guys and it makes a big difference. Guys like Murray, Barton, and Juancho manage to get themselves out of position on defense pretty often and Jefferson corrected it on the fly.

I liked the Jefferson signing. Low risk medium reward. Seems to be happening

 

[Xokkeu]

Honestly, I don't have a huge problem with Alabama being in there. They lost one game to the same team that Georgia lost their one game, and Alabama was down by but one score in the 4th quarter. They didn't have many awesome wins, but the didn't have any bad losses either. Clemson, Georgia, Ohio State all had bad losses (either to a lame team, or a total blowout loss).

In the end, I would have been OK with either Alabama or Ohio State getting in. But I'm not up in arms about it.

On the VJ front, yeah - the Broncos are almost comical at this point. They are unprepared to play.

Ohio state's loss to Iowa still makes no sense. OSU dominated Wisconsin who dominated Iowa who..... dominated Ohio state. Kids these days.

 

[Bonzai12]

Was doing some numbers this am on spotrac

Just running scenarios on some guys -

Talib - cutting or trading Talib would save the Broncos $11M. They could cut him or trade him at any point to save the $11M

Sanders - Cutting Sanders would save the team 5.5M before 6/1, and 8.25M after 6/1

CJ - Cutting or trading CJ saves the team 4.5M and timing is irrelevant

Heurman - Cutting or trading him saves 720k, timing irrelevant

Menelik Watson - pre 6/1 release or trade saves 4.8M, post 6/1 trade/release saves 6.125M

Thomas - DT’s situation is a lot stickier than Sanders. Trading DT before 6/1 saves the team 5M. A post 6/1 trade saves 8.5M. There are no savings on releasing him until 2019.

Lynch - Lynch is also complicated. Releasing him pre 6/1 costs the team 1.8M, Post 6/1 costs 600k. Trading him after 6/1 brings 1.3M in savings.

Stewart - releasing/trading Stewart pre 6/1 saves 1.7M. Post 6/1 releasing/trading him saves 4.5M


Based on this info I expect the following -
1) CJ, Heurman and Talib will all be traded/released between season end and the draft.

2) Broncos will try hard to trade DT, as they already have been. I think their preference is to keep Sanders and get rid of DT but if they can’t pull off a trade then they will cut or trade Sanders after 6/1. DT’s contract is a tough pill to swallow and I could see the Broncos trading him for peanuts to get rid of the contract. It will probably piss off Broncos Nation but it will be because of his contract not DT’s talent.

3) They’ll be looking for a trade partner for Paxton after June. They won’t release him right after the season which will bring up questions but it’s due to his contract.

Stewart and Watson will be interesting ones. We save more money post 6/1 but I think it’s safe to say both of those guys are gone. Just an interesting question of “when”.