Other Chicago & General Sports Thread LVII: Bulls draft Carter & Hutchison

[LDF]

I wonder if Darvish re signs with the Dodgers? Does he go back to the Rangers?

interesting to be brutally honest, i really don't know.

i am not sure if he really like the Rangers org, i guess that will be a major plus in addition to the salary.

 

[Rooh]

Nwaba is a keeper for the Bulls man is a ball of energy..perfect role player. Dunn has also been terrific his last 10 games, shot is much improved compared to last year.

The team has a lot of high motor players that can run..player like Bagley would fit in great imo.

 

[HeisenBaez]

I wonder if Darvish re signs with the Dodgers? Does he go back to the Rangers?

Since Jerry DiPoto was so desperate to get Ohtani, it would not surprise me if he(DiPoto) goes full boat on trying to get Darvish. So, my guess would be Seattle.

 

[HeisenBaez]

Stanton to the Yankees, presumably is nearing completion. That takes the Cubs biggest challengers for Bryce off the table. Still have to worry about Washington/Philly (they are itching to spend), S.F., LA (this will be tough because Kershaw can opt-out after 2018, which means the Dodgers will be focusing on making him a Dodger 4 life), for Harper.

 

[LDF]

Stanton to the Yankees, presumably is nearing completion. That takes the Cubs biggest challengers for Bryce off the table. Still have to worry about Washington/Philly (they are itching to spend), S.F., LA (this will be tough because Kershaw can opt-out after 2018, which means the Dodgers will be focusing on making him a Dodger 4 life), for Harper.

the yanks and marlins have agree in principal on a trade, now awaiting for Stanton to approve.

i thought it might be the yannks, they have the prospects to offer.

 

[Easy E]

Poor Starlin.... He gets traded from a crappy Cubs team that wins the World Series to crappy Yankees team that soon makes a run deep in playoffs to a soon to be terrible Marlins team.

 

[Sarava]

Poor Starlin.... He gets traded from a crappy Cubs team that wins the World Series to crappy Yankees team that soon makes a run deep in playoffs to a soon to be terrible Marlins team.

While I agree with this, I suspect he will be flipped to another team. They probably don't want to pay him either.

 

[piteus]

Stanton to the Yankees, presumably is nearing completion. That takes the Cubs biggest challengers for Bryce off the table. Still have to worry about Washington/Philly (they are itching to spend), S.F., LA (this will be tough because Kershaw can opt-out after 2018, which means the Dodgers will be focusing on making him a Dodger 4 life), for Harper.

The Cubs still have to figure what to do with Heyward before they go all in with Harper.

 

[Sarava]

The Cubs still have to figure what to do with Heyward before they go all in with Harper.

I don't think there's anything they can do with Heyward. No team will touch that contract with a ten foot pole.

 

[hawksrule]

Oh ... most of us in Manhattan are dbags. I don't disagree. I don't think most New Yorkers would. Of course, most people who live in Manhattan are transplants. You go to the outer boroughs ... they are even meaner. That's no joke.

Load of crap. Personally I find Chicagoans to be much less friendly and dbaggery than New Yorkers. Buy it’s dumb to generalize 8m people.

 

[piteus]

I don't think there's anything they can do with Heyward. No team will touch that contract with a ten foot pole.

That's a big problem. The Cubs have to pray Heyward rebounds next year. If he can hit .290 / 25HRs, it will be easier to trade him. That said, it's a big IF and the Cubs would still have to eat part of that contract if Heyward opts in.

 

[Easy E]

That's a big problem. The Cubs have to pray Heyward rebounds next year. If he can hit .290 / 25HRs, it will be easier to trade him. That said, it's a big IF and the Cubs would still have to eat part of that contract if Heyward opts in.

If he hits .290/25hrs, why trade him? Not to mention, he is a defensive stud.

Fingers crossed he can turn it around.

 

[piteus]

If he hits .290/25hrs, why trade him? Not to mention, he is a defensive stud.

I just wish his swing wasn't completely pathetic.

Braves Home Run:

Cubs Home Run:

Doesn't look like he changed his approach that much... Braves swing looked a little bit quicker and more violent. His stances looks slightly different as well.

Fingers crossed he can turn it around.

Because you and I know it's a mirage. It would be a one off. If Heyward believed it, he'd opt out too. No way it happens. Furthermore, I'd pay $10mn more per year to have Harper instead. It's a no brainer.

 

[Easy E]

Because you and I know it's a mirage. It would be a one off. If Heyward believed it, he'd opt out too. No way it happens. Furthermore, I'd pay $10mn more per year to have Harper instead. It's a no brainer.

Fair point and very true on the Harper note.

 

[TLEH]

Duke just got shredded on the pick and roll by BC. Bagley looked lost defensively same with Carter

 

[Sarava]

That's a big problem. The Cubs have to pray Heyward rebounds next year. If he can hit .290 / 25HRs, it will be easier to trade him. That said, it's a big IF and the Cubs would still have to eat part of that contract if Heyward opts in.

It's definitely a big if. He hasn't hit more than 14 HR's in the last 5 years, and only hit above .271 once. You're asking for a career year of epic proportions. Sort of like Avi did with the Sox last year. So it's possible.

 

[piteus]

Duke just got shredded on the pick and roll by BC. Bagley looked lost defensively same with Carter

They looked like that on the road against Indiana too. That said, so did Tatum at Duke. Look what he is doing at Boston. Of course, Okafor never learned a lick of defense from K. You just never know with Dookies and defense.

If you think their defense was bad, imagine Doncic, Young, or Sexton.

 

[piteus]

It's definitely a big if. He hasn't hit more than 14 HR's in the last 5 years, and only hit above .271 once. You're asking for a career year of epic proportions. Sort of like Avi did with the Sox last year. So it's possible.

I never said it was realistic. I said I was "praying."

 

[Rooh]

Duke just got shredded on the pick and roll by BC. Bagley looked lost defensively same with Carter

Meanwhile, Doncic dropped 33/6/4 0n 21 shots vs the best defensive team outside the NBA.

Bagley has been an awful defender thus far, he doesn't have much length to play center and his I.Q is pretty weak on that end.

 

[Rooh]

They looked like that on the road against Indiana too. That said, so did Tatum at Duke. Look what he is doing at Boston. Of course, Okafor never learned a lick of defense from K. You just never know with Dookies and defense.

If you think their defense was bad, imagine Doncic, Young, or Sexton.

Tatum did not look bad defensively with Duke he had around a 4.5 DBPM to show for it, while Bagley has one of the lowest DBPMs in a long time for a big prospect even worse defensive numbers than Okafor and this is only the college level. Not to mention Tatum is being coached by a damn genius in Brad Stevens.

Doncic and Young won't hurt a defense as much as Bagley, Bagley is going to be playing PF/C which are vital positions for our team defensively. Might end up with another Towns where he basically puts up a bunch of numbers but is still not franchise player because he is arguably the worst defending big in the league.

Lauri/Bagley defensively long term that could be concerning.

 

[TLEH]

I hate to say it, because I am not a huge fan of unathletic Euros, but I agree with Rooh. I have not been impressed at all by Bagley in terms of basketball IQ or defense. He legit looks lost on the court for long periods of time.


He's just bigger and stronger than everybody else. I was a lot higher on Porter Jr than anybody else in this draft and it sucks he got hurt. I would almost rather take Doncic at this point at 1.


Ayton isn't playing defense that makes me think he's going to be a defensively viable center at the NBA level either. He's massive, can jump, and has a huge wingspan, and he just isn't blocking shots at the college level it doesn't make sense.

 

[Rooh]

I hate to say it, because I am not a huge fan of unathletic Euros, but I agree with Rooh. I have not been impressed at all by Bagley in terms of basketball IQ or defense. He legit looks lost on the court for long periods of time.


He's just bigger and stronger than everybody else. I was a lot higher on Porter Jr than anybody else in this draft and it sucks he got hurt. I would almost rather take Doncic at this point at 1.


Ayton isn't playing defense that makes me think he's going to be a defensively viable center at the NBA level either. He's massive, can jump, and has a huge wingspan, and he just isn't blocking shots at the college level it doesn't make sense.

Yeah basically spot on, Ayton hasn't shown any ability to rim protect and it drives me crazy because it seems like an effort problem. He has all the tools to be a dominant player on both ends..and when he's on he is damn near unstoppable on both ends of the court.

I would select MPJ at 2 even with his injury, I think his upside is that much higher than the two bigs that play one end..bad defensive bigs just kill a defense. Hopefully Ayton starts showing more effort and signs of rim protection soon.. he acknowledged his weakness has been rim protection and that he wants to start blocking more shots so that's a good sign. Bagley on the other end just doesn't have any length or I.Q on defense which gives me less hope in Bagley becoming a good defender.

 

[piteus]

Meanwhile, Doncic dropped 33/6/4 0n 21 shots vs the best defensive team outside the NBA.

Bagley has been an awful defender thus far, he doesn't have much length to play center and his I.Q is pretty weak on that end.

Doncic is good, but you always forget to tell entire story.

1. No one thinks Doncic is going to be a good defensive player. NO ONE. They think he can be acceptable with some work ... and that is as a forward. There's no way he can guard other PGs unless it's Lonzo Ball.

2. Doncic scored 33 points in 38 minutes in a game Real Madrid LOST. Do you know who the 2nd leading scorer for Real Madrid was? Jaycee Carroll. A 33 year old from undrafted FA from Utah State. He had a few tryouts and never made the NBA.

3. Do you know the 2nd scorer for Olympiacos? Kotas Papanikolaou scored 22 points. His 2 year NBA scoring average was 3 points. Their leading scorer was a big center and never sniffed the NBA.

4. Kyle Wiltjer plays for Olympiacos. Now you can make an argument he had a good college career but doesn't play in the Euros. That said a lot of G League players star in the Euro Leagues.

=> No one is saying Doncic isn't good. However, the NBA draft is about upside. The Euro League is very different from the NBA. Comparing European basketball to American basketball is silly. You have to see how Doncic's skills translate in America. Everyone thought Mirotic would be some passing / shooting wizard for the Bulls. He's a no defense black hole who can shoot a bit when he gets hot.

Doncic has weaknesses to his game ... just like Bagley. You act like he is a guarantee. He's not.

How does anyone say Trae Young is a good defender? LOL.

Tell the entire story. Stop picking and choosing to push your narrative. Be fair with your analysis. What is your infatuation with Doncic? Even I have my reservations with Bagley and Porter. However, you claimed Doncic will be one of the best PGs in the NBA? How do you know? From his European stats?

Again, Doncic is a 6'6" / 6'7" wing with a high basketball IQ. He's not a PG in the NBA. He's a good shooter and passer. He is a suspect NBA defender due to his foot speed. How many slow footed 6'6-6'7" wings who can shoot are in the NBA? You have to bank on his alleged high basketball IQ. The Bulls thought the same of Denzel Valentine and Doug McDermott. How did that turn out? That's the risk of picking Doncic. 6'11" players who are as athletic / with high post skills don't grow on trees.

 

[LDF]

excellent write up, something i would like to keep when the draft comes around.

 

[piteus]

excellent write up, something i would like to keep when the draft comes around.

I can see why people would like Doncic. He appears like a player. However, in the end, Doncic is a good shooting slow footed 6'6"-6'7" wing with high basketball IQ. Bagley is a long 6'11' athletic forward / center with great inside post skills and high offensive IQ. Both players are suspect defensively. It could be because they are both 18 years. Tony Bennett always said teaching young players post defense / hedging / double teaming is far harder than guarding on the perimeter. In case you don't know who Tony Bennett is ... his father taught Stevens and Butler University his philosophy of defense.

Ultimately, if you like Doncic, it comes down to his basketball IQ. How sure are you that his basketball IQ is off the charts? Will his IQ translate into the NBA? Plenty of high basketball IQ Euros become "stupid" when they face athletic freaks with 7' wingspans. It's why longer / taller Euros fare far better than smaller wings. Markannen is 7'.

Bagley will have to improve his shooting. That's obvious. Doncic has to prove that as a good shooting but 6'6"-6'7" slow footed wing, that his basketball IQ will differentiate him. Who has the better risk / reward profile? What type of prospect is tougher to find? Who has the higher upside? Who's game translate better to the NBA? Those are the questions you have to ask. Heck, Ayton, Bamba, Young, or Porter might have more upside than both. The NBA is about superstars. It's about finding unicorns.