Other Chicago & General Sports Thread LVII: Bulls draft Carter & Hutchison

[piteus]

Yeah...I don't think we expected a playoff contender. But some of the things they did well last year like fundamentals....they're gone this year.

It's early, so I don't want to panic. But if they go and lose 105 games this year, good luck getting any free agent to come here next winter (barring a big overpay)

The Sox have to find some hitters. Moncada (exit velocity is very good and willing to take walks) and Jimenez are keepers. You should re sign Abreu. Other than that, trade Garcia when he still has some value. The others are all expendable. Seriously, most of the Sox hitters are free swinging non power hitters. It's a bad combination.

The Sox saving Grace is their starting rotation:

* Giolito
* Lopez
* Kopech
* Rodon

It appears to be a strong core. Through Sox have to pray some of their htting prospects in the minors pay off. Apart from Jimenez, Rutherford might be a start.

 

[piteus]

Watching the NBA playoffs, it's even more apparent the traditional center is dead. Anthony Davis and Joel Embiid aren't centers, they are freaks of nature. They can do guard like things as a 7 footer. While Karl Anthony Towns is a great talent, if he can't improve his perimeter game ... he'll continue to be irrelevant in the playoffs.

New Orleans effectively took Nurkic out the series with Davis and Mirotic's ability to space the floor. Will Portland even try to re sign Nurkic to a big contract? Zach Collins, an athletic / potential stretch 5, looks like the future. That said, props to Mirotic. While he's still not the greatest defender, he's showing that he can be a rim protector with Davis. And Mirotic's ability to space the floor with his size made him a core piece with Davis. New Orleans could be a better team without Cousins.

The new NBA center is either: A) the stretch 5; B) rim protector/athlete/finish at the rim. Capella is a great example of option B. Paxson suggested Markkanen can also be that stretch 5. Hence, the need for more athletic wings. It also proves Portis is part of our future as a stretch 5 off the bench.

IMO, while Bamba and Ayton are intriguing, the new NBA kind of makes them risky investments. I don't think they'll ever become great shooters. They'll need to be rim protectors / mobile / explosive around the rim. Can they become the next Capella? Jaren Jackson and Marvin Bagley might fit better with the new NBA at center. Wings like Porter (IF back is okay) and both Bridges are better equipped to star in the NBA.

That also leads to guard play in the playoffs. Small guards are fine in the regular season, but they struggle in the playoffs (unless a freak shooter like Curry). Lillard is being manhandled by the bigger Holiday. IF Dunn learns to shoot a bit better, he'll be great. LaVine has potential but he needs to get a LOT stronger. He gets pushed around. Unless Trae Young is a freak shooter, Sexton is probably the better draft pick at guard.

BOTTOMLINE: The Bulls need athletic wings who can shoot. The best fits for the Bulls are Doncic, Porter (if back is okay), both Bridges, and Jackson. Doncic is either going to become the next Harden or Hezonja. We shall see.

 

[Sarava]

The Sox have to find some hitters. Moncada (exit velocity is very good and willing to take walks) and Jimenez are keepers. You should re sign Abreu. Other than that, trade Garcia when he still has some value. The others are all expendable. Seriously, most of the Sox hitters are free swinging non power hitters. It's a bad combination.

The Sox saving Grace is their starting rotation:

* Giolito
* Lopez
* Kopech
* Rodon

It appears to be a strong core. Through Sox have to pray some of their htting prospects in the minors pay off. Apart from Jimenez, Rutherford might be a start.

Micker Adolfo and Rutherford have had an awesome start this year. We'll see where that goes. Luis Robert has amazing potential. Him and Eloy need to stop getting all these small injuries, though.

I feel pretty good where they sit for potential hitters. Every guy doesn't need to be an all-star. If you can find 2 or 3 of them, and compliment them with a few guys you sign, plus guys like Yolmer Sanchez to round out the roster- I think that could work out great.

I wouldn't be surprised if they used the #4 pick in the coming draft on an arm. I think at this point most major needs are filled in the organization. Maybe the biggest need is a potential impact middle infielder prospect? Of course, many will bust, get injured, etc. So you just keep stocking up with the BPA and let the chips fall.

 

[piteus]

Micker Adolfo and Rutherford have had an awesome start this year. We'll see where that goes. Luis Robert has amazing potential. Him and Eloy need to stop getting all these small injuries, though.

I feel pretty good where they sit for potential hitters. Every guy doesn't need to be an all-star. If you can find 2 or 3 of them, and compliment them with a few guys you sign, plus guys like Yolmer Sanchez to round out the roster- I think that could work out great.

I wouldn't be surprised if they used the #4 pick in the coming draft on an arm. I think at this point most major needs are filled in the organization. Maybe the biggest need is a potential impact middle infielder prospect? Of course, many will bust, get injured, etc. So you just keep stocking up with the BPA and let the chips fall.

Luis Robert is an interesting prospect. Perhaps they construct a competent outfield in the future.

They really need to find some decent infielders. Abreu is a DH. Moncada has a lot of upside. The others are meh. I should add that I like Delmonico. Perhaps he can play first base?

I never liked Fulmer. I always thought he was overrated at Vandy.

 

[DPHawk]

 

[Sarava]

I didn't realize it was so serious for Farquhar. Best of wishes to him. That is scary.

 

[Sarava]

Luis Robert is an interesting prospect. Perhaps they construct a competent outfield in the future.

They really need to find some decent infielders. Abreu is a DH. Moncada has a lot of upside. The others are meh. I should add that I like Delmonico. Perhaps he can play first base?

I never liked Fulmer. I always thought he was overrated at Vandy.

Yeah as for Fulmer, if I'm the Sox I see if you can salvage a middle reliever out of him. I don't see much more hope than that.

But I am going to disagree if you're saying Tim Anderson is meh. I like his potential and I feel comfortable at this point with him as our SS of the future. So while I think we're in good shape for the future in the middle infield. Those guys can be moved a lot of places and I wouldn't be bothered if the Sox targeted that in the coming draft.

That leaves the two corners. The Sox have many potential first basemen (Burger, Sheets, Demonico) and it's one of the easiest positions to fill with free agency. So I'm not worried there

Third base is the biggest concern. Will Jake Burger recover 100% from his injury. And even if he does, most projected him to move to 1st or DH.

This is where a lot of Sox fans wanted Manny Machado. That is unless he insists with the team he signs with that he play SS. They could give him a $350 mil contract and still have a low payroll. But I think most expect Machado to sign with the Yankees.

The Sox should have some kind of plan for an impact bat at 3B. Maybe via trade if Machado isn't going to happen.

 

[Sarava]

Here's one last name as a possible first basemen of the future....Seth Beer. A year ago he was an expected #1 pick in the 2018 draft. He regressed from his historic freshman campaign. The latest mock I saw had him going in the 3rd round.

If he is available for the Sox 2nd round pick, I think they might have a tough time passing on him. Rick Hahn let it out more than a year ago that his son was running a fantasy White Sox team and his fantasy team had both Luis Robert and Seth Beer on it. Where we do we think his young son is hearing these names from? Luis Robert was later signed by the Sox.

 

[Sarava]

Giolito down 8-0 in the 2nd inning now.

 

[TLEH]

Darvish imploding in the 5th.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Sox should have traded Garcia when his value peaked

A massive failure by Hahn to not trade him

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

* Giolito
* Lopez
* Kopech
* Rodon

It appears to be a strong core. Through Sox have to pray some of their htting prospects in the minors pay off. Apart from Jimenez, Rutherford might be a start.

Rodon looks meh at this point and his ceiling is alot lower then people said it would be. I see him as at best a #3 at this point

And nothing to be excited about while Gioltio looks absolutely awful at this point

 

[Sarava]

Sox should have traded Garcia when his value peaked

A massive failure by Hahn to not trade him

Nah. Everyone kept saying his year was a fluke because his BABIP was absurdly high. Other teams knew that too. There likely wasn't much of a market for him.

 

[Sarava]

Rodon looks meh at this point and his ceiling is alot lower then people said it would be. I see him as at best a #3 at this point

And nothing to be excited about while Gioltio looks absolutely awful at this point

That's why you keep stockpiling. Many of these guys will bust or get injured. Don't be surprised if the Sox take a pitcher with the #4 pick.

 

[Illinihockey]

Bryant just got hit in the head with a 96 mph fastball

 

[piteus]

Not that it matters, but people have convinced me that Josh Allen will have issues in the NFL.

1. Allen was always an inaccurate passer. He threw at a 50% clip in high school and junior college. He was pretty much a mid 50% passer at Wyoming too.

2. His arm strength is amazing. However, how many times do QBs throw a 70 yard pass in the air.

3. Today's football is about throwing accurate 10-15 yard passes in the middle of the field. That's Allen's weakness.

Picking QBs is a lottery. However, if accuracy and intermediate passes are the key traits for NFL success (minus defense recognition), Rosen and then Mayfield are the top 2 in the draft. Who knows? I find QB evaluation fascinating. It's a lot like evaluating a goalie.

 

[TLEH]

I think people are going to look back and wonder why Mayfield didn’t go earlier. Accurate and mobile. Two key traits that lead to success. Most accurate passer in FBS history if I remember right.

 

[Rooh]

Watching the NBA playoffs, it's even more apparent the traditional center is dead. Anthony Davis and Joel Embiid aren't centers, they are freaks of nature. They can do guard like things as a 7 footer. While Karl Anthony Towns is a great talent, if he can't improve his perimeter game ... he'll continue to be irrelevant in the playoffs.

New Orleans effectively took Nurkic out the series with Davis and Mirotic's ability to space the floor. Will Portland even try to re sign Nurkic to a big contract? Zach Collins, an athletic / potential stretch 5, looks like the future. That said, props to Mirotic. While he's still not the greatest defender, he's showing that he can be a rim protector with Davis. And Mirotic's ability to space the floor with his size made him a core piece with Davis. New Orleans could be a better team without Cousins.

The new NBA center is either: A) the stretch 5; B) rim protector/athlete/finish at the rim. Capella is a great example of option B. Paxson suggested Markkanen can also be that stretch 5. Hence, the need for more athletic wings. It also proves Portis is part of our future as a stretch 5 off the bench.

IMO, while Bamba and Ayton are intriguing, the new NBA kind of makes them risky investments. I don't think they'll ever become great shooters. They'll need to be rim protectors / mobile / explosive around the rim. Can they become the next Capella? Jaren Jackson and Marvin Bagley might fit better with the new NBA at center. Wings like Porter (IF back is okay) and both Bridges are better equipped to star in the NBA.

That also leads to guard play in the playoffs. Small guards are fine in the regular season, but they struggle in the playoffs (unless a freak shooter like Curry). Lillard is being manhandled by the bigger Holiday. IF Dunn learns to shoot a bit better, he'll be great. LaVine has potential but he needs to get a LOT stronger. He gets pushed around. Unless Trae Young is a freak shooter, Sexton is probably the better draft pick at guard.

BOTTOMLINE: The Bulls need athletic wings who can shoot. The best fits for the Bulls are Doncic, Porter (if back is okay), both Bridges, and Jackson. Doncic is either going to become the next Harden or Hezonja. We shall see.

I'm in on Doncic if we move up (shocker) and if not MPJ/Mikal with #6. I actually really think the Bulls have a good shot at Davis in 2020...plus we have Lopez/Portis for now who can hold their own. Don't see the need to select a big unless JJJ is available.

Ayton has an elite post-up game even so it's a dying breed in today's game he might be freakish enough and good enough at passing out of doubles to make it work. Bagley has some elite skills around the rim as well but both need to expand their shooting. The good thing about the Bulls is they have Markkanen who fits great with any of these inside oriented bigs if we were to draft them.

Idk about you but for the 22nd pick I like Jontay, Mitchell Robinson, Keita-Bates, Jacob Evans or maybe Musa. Rest seem meh to me unless Zhaire or Shai fall.

 

[Illinihockey]

Not that it matters, but people have convinced me that Josh Allen will have issues in the NFL.

1. Allen was always an inaccurate passer. He threw at a 50% clip in high school and junior college. He was pretty much a mid 50% passer at Wyoming too.

2. His arm strength is amazing. However, how many times do QBs throw a 70 yard pass in the air.

3. Today's football is about throwing accurate 10-15 yard passes in the middle of the field. That's Allen's weakness.

Picking QBs is a lottery. However, if accuracy and intermediate passes are the key traits for NFL success (minus defense recognition), Rosen and then Mayfield are the top 2 in the draft. Who knows? I find QB evaluation fascinating. It's a lot like evaluating a goalie.

Arm strength isn't necessarily about how far you can throw the ball in the air. That said Allen is going to bust.

 

[HawksBeerFan]

Javier Baez is incredible, that is all.

 

[piteus]

Arm strength isn't necessarily about how far you can throw the ball in the air. That said Allen is going to bust.

Of course it is. You're probably arguing exit velocity / release ... that's part of the ingredients of throwing the ball far.

 

[Illinihockey]

Of course it is. You're probably arguing exit velocity / release ... that's part of the ingredients of throwing the ball far.

No, its about how long it takes the ball to get from point A to point B. If you can get the ball to the receiver on a 15 yard out route in a shorter time period, then the defender has less of a chance to make a play on the ball. If you can throw corner route from the far hash and beat the safety because you can throw it on a line instead of an arc, thats arm strength. Arm strength isn't about who can chuck it down the field 60-70 yards.

 

[ChiHawks10]

No, its about how long it takes the ball to get from point A to point B. If you can get the ball to the receiver on a 15 yard out route in a shorter time period, then the defender has less of a chance to make a play on the ball. If you can throw corner route from the far hash and beat the safety because you can throw it on a line instead of an arc, thats arm strength. Arm strength isn't about who can chuck it down the field 60-70 yards.

Agree with this. How often does a QB need to throw it up 50-75 yards? Half a dozen times a season, maybe? Great arm strength will benefit every single pass the QB makes. More zip on the ball is good for both the QB and the receivers, and bad for DBs.

 

[piteus]

No, its about how long it takes the ball to get from point A to point B. If you can get the ball to the receiver on a 15 yard out route in a shorter time period, then the defender has less of a chance to make a play on the ball. If you can throw corner route from the far hash and beat the safety because you can throw it on a line instead of an arc, thats arm strength. Arm strength isn't about who can chuck it down the field 60-70 yards.

That's called a quick release / technique. That has nothing to do with a "strong arm." I guarantee if a QB can throw a ball on a rope from one hash to other hash, he's going to be able to throw it 60 yards in the air.

Some of the quickest releases in the game include Vick, Marino, Moon, Rodgers, and Favre ... and they also have strong arms. If you have to throw 15 yard outs with loft, you don't have a strong arm.

It's simple physics. If the ball exit velocity is high off the hand ... it's going to travel far. Just look at the NFL skill competitions. The QBs with the fartherest throws are known to have the strongest arms. And I understand the idea of the body / running javelin throw. They are not QBs.

 

[Illinihockey]

That's called a quick release / technique. That has nothing to do with a "strong arm." I guarantee if a QB can throw a ball on a rope from one hash to other hash, he's going to be able to throw it 60 yards in the air.

Some of the quickest releases in the game include Vick, Marino, Moon, Rodgers, and Favre ... and they also have strong arms. If you have to throw 15 yard outs with loft, you don't have a strong arm.

It's simple physics. If the ball exit velocity is high off the hand ... it's going to travel far. Just look at the NFL skill competitions. The QBs with the fartherest throws are known to have the strongest arms. And I understand the idea of the body / running javelin throw. They are not QBs.

You are just wrong. You really think when scouts are talking about a big arm they are talking about how many 50 yard passes the guy is going to throw . Yes guys that throw hard can also throw far, but that isn't what scouts are talking about when discussing arm strength. They aren't talking strictly about throwing super deep passes.