Major League Baseball considering expansion, radical realignment

[rkhum]

https://sports.yahoo.com/major-league-baseball-considering-expansion-164737396.html


1. Baseball easily has enough talent for 32 teams if football does and hockey has 31 teams.

2. Montreal deserves a team, but I'd rather see Vancouver than Portland.

3. We should have 4 8 team divisions NOW...with the two best non-division winners getting WCs, no WC play in game.

4. Expand the playoffs...too many regular season games.

Click to read more...

 

[Acesolid]

Expansion: yes, that's a great idea for sure.

Stopping the concept of separate leagues?!! Hell no. The NL needs no DH, and the AL needs a DH. This is part of the identity of Baseball! Why not 4 divisions.... but still split into two leagues? Wouldn't that be easier?

Sure, maybe some teams would have to switch leagues, but it's not the end of the world, the Astros just did not long ago.

Or maybe 4 teams divisions like the NFL?

 

[End on a Hinote]

2. Montreal deserves a team, but I'd rather see Vancouver than Portland.

Agreed. Ive always felt Vancouver has been the most ripped off city for pro sports.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Basically they want to modernize. The NL/AL thing is neat for historic purposes but it makes little sense in terms of running a unified league. The MLB playoffs leave a TON of good action on the table by including so few teams.

This pretty much comes down to, are you an old-school purist or are you a fan of how sports leagues do things nowadays?

 

[cutchemist42]

If be fine with the rule split disappearing. It's artificially kept in place as the leagues aren't separate entities. I personally think the whole "NL is a smarter game" is bull too, as the moves made are obvious to anyone.

I think from what I've seen posted here and elsewhere that Vancouver doesnt stomach losing teams well, based on the Canucks attendance problems.

Losing seasons in the NBA and MLB are even more dreadful, so I question Vancouver.

 

[garnetpalmetto]

Expansion: yes, that's a great idea for sure.

Stopping the concept of separate leagues?!! Hell no. The NL needs no DH, and the AL needs a DH. This is part of the identity of Baseball! Why not 4 divisions.... but still split into two leagues? Wouldn't that be easier?

Sure, maybe some teams would have to switch leagues, but it's not the end of the world, the Astros just did not long ago.

Or maybe 4 teams divisions like the NFL?

Basically they want to modernize. The NL/AL thing is neat for historic purposes but it makes little sense in terms of running a unified league. The MLB playoffs leave a TON of good action on the table by including so few teams.

This pretty much comes down to, are you an old-school purist or are you a fan of how sports leagues do things nowadays?

Beyond what THH points out, the "Leagues" are little more than conferences. I posted it in the thread in the Baseball forum but holding onto the AL/NL split as if it means anything beyond which league has the DH and which doesn't is an anachronism. The MLB has already knocked down most of the differentiations between the two - both League offices have been abolished and the powers of the League presidents absorbed into the office of the Commissioner. Separate umpiring staffs have been consolidated into a single umpiring staff. Interleague play has been instituted and made a regular occurrence throughout the season. Teams have been moved between League to suit the needs of realignment. The days of MLB being one organization composed of two separate Leagues is long over.

 

[BattleBorn]

I like the no DH because of the wrinkle it adds to pitching and lineups. I think losing it altogether would be a net negative for the league.

However, I'm a fan of an NL team, so I get if people disagree.

 

[PCSPounder]

A similar article teased Portland last month. If only there was an active ownership group to galvanize a city council or Metro or a county.

There's people whispering about a "silent" ownership group waiting in the wings. The same was done when Portland was supposedly competing for the Expos. Chuckle.

 

[cutchemist42]

If MLB went into Portland, is it still big enough to absorb the NHL and have all franchises healthy?

 

[PCSPounder]

If MLB went into Portland, is it still big enough to absorb the NHL and have all franchises healthy?

I highly doubt it.

Considering that the University of Oregon's somewhat pre-eminent sports marketing department didn't think Portland could handle MLB and NBA 14 years ago, I highly doubt they think differently now. They do hold some sway around here.

 

[garnetpalmetto]

I like the no DH because of the wrinkle it adds to pitching and lineups. I think losing it altogether would be a net negative for the league.

However, I'm a fan of an NL team, so I get if people disagree.

I'm also (primarily) a fan of an NL team and much prefer DH and I think if it came down to brass tacks that's the way MLB would go, in part to keep MLBPA happy. In terms of gameplay, though, I prefer not having an almost automatic out when the pitcher comes up, I abhor double switches, and I'd point out that even with NL farm systems, pitchers don't get to bat until Double-A and even then it's only when their team plays another NL farm team.

I highly doubt it.

Considering that the University of Oregon's somewhat pre-eminent sports marketing department didn't think Portland could handle MLB and NBA 14 years ago, I highly doubt they think differently now. They do hold some sway around here.

I'd also wonder if there'd be some enmity in baseball circles for Portland having chosen to effectively kick out the Beavers in favor of the Timbers a few years ago and causing that franchise to have to relocate.

 

[PCSPounder]

I'd also wonder if there'd be some enmity in baseball circles for Portland having chosen to effectively kick out the Beavers in favor of the Timbers a few years ago and causing that franchise to have to relocate.

None whatsoever.

That stadium, as a ballpark, killed baseball. It was too big, baseball already had enough fits and starts in that stadium since the 1950s when Vaughn Street was closed and the Beavers moved, and the PCL made absolutely no effort to thwart Merritt Paulson at the time the MLS issue came to the fore. Heck, the PCL owned the Beavers in 2004 and into 2005; they KNEW the numbers. They know a new ballpark is needed if AAA is the goal.

With the money recently pouring into town, we'll see if someone wants to induce public money to be spent for MLB (the state has a standing law authorizing $100 million or so for MLB). Thing is, I absolutely expect the city to not offer further public funds and therefore the effort dies.

 

[rent free]

montreal and Indianapolis should get teams

 

[KevFu]

I'm a "Traditional Realist" in sports.

I realize the DH is a polarizing issue. As an NL fan I hate it, but I accept that it's going to be universal. There's no reason to fight the union to abolish the DH. The rules should be the same. So I think "Why are we delaying this?").

I also hate the notion of "radical realignment" of MLB so it's like NHL/NBA (I think the NHL/NBA would be smarter to go the MLB route!). However, I do understand the TV start time issue (And people's misconceptions about travel).


As a Traditionalists/Realist, here's my compromise for the DH.
- DH in both leagues, but the DH applies ONLY to the starting pitcher. When the SP is out of the game, so is the DH.

- DH is listed separate on the lineup card. Manager gets to choose if he wants the DH to enter when the SP spot comes up to bat (or after the SP reaches base!). If the DH does NOT appear in the game before the SP leaves the game, the player listed as DH is returns to the list of available bench players.

So now we have late-game NL style strategy with the pitcher's spot. That's what's entertaining. No one really makes a "let the pitcher bat here?" Decision anymore. IT's automatic in the NL. But double-switches to move the pitcher's spot in the lineup, and managing your bullpen around the batting order IS entertaining and thought-provoking

And don't eliminate dwindling NL strategy, we add a NEW strategy with this DH:
- Whom to list at DH (you might not have him to hit later)
- Where to put the pitcher's spot in the lineup?
- When to let the SP hit/bunt for himself and try and save the DH for later.

We protect the expensive starting pitchers from having to hit/run the bases unless they're qualified to do so.
We don't eliminate the possibility of good-hitting pitchers ever batting, but we drastically reduce the bad hitting pitchers.

I'd expect pitcher ABs to drop from 4500 to about 500. RPs account for 150 to 200 ABs per season (Tough to tell exactly how many because of "swing man" SP/RP guys). This would probably double with the AL long men jumping in there.

 

[KevFu]

Now the realignment part. Personally, I don't think very many fans want the AL/NL to disappear. What we want is FAIR pennant races with lots of teams in the race for a long time. We don't want playoffs like the NBA, where half the league makes it.

As a realist, I understand that making balanced schedules is at odds with the modern TV start time problem. So here's my "Traditionalist" Radical Realignment concept.
I do NOT "favor" this radical realignment to a 16-NL, 16-AL, two divisions of 8 each. But I understand that an eight team division probably isn't going to happen; and this is my compromise if MLB is hell bent on joining the West together:

American League: BAL, BOS, NYY, CLE || DET, CWS, MIN, KCR
National League: CHC, STL, MIL, COL || CIN, PIT, PHI, ATL
Pacific League: SFG, LAD, SDP, ARZ || SEA, OAK, LAA, Portland
Continental League: TEX, HOU, MIA, TBR || NYM, WAS, TOR, Montreal

18 against your league (126 games)
36 games interleague games - 1 (three-game) series against each team in three of the other six divisions per year. (Play the whole league home/away every 4 years).

#1 - We get the West for TV purposes that the West needs.
#2 - Each division has THE EXACT SAME schedule.
#3 - Each LEAGUE has a schedule that's at maximum 24 games different. As of right now, it's 57 games different.

#4 - We do it with limited damage to the AL/NL structure. It's based on "revisionist history." Back in 1957, you had two eight-team leagues playing 154 games against each other, winner to the World Series. The Pacific Coast League was an open league with 8 teams doing the same thing. Instead of the Dodgers/Giants/Athletics' moving west and destroying the PCL, I'm just pretending they "joined it" and make it a third major league. The proposed Continental League becomes the "fourth major league."


In Baseball America's radical plan, there's a combined 2128 seasons of each city's team being in their current league totally wiped out.
In this concept, we're only changing ONE QUARTER of the combined tenure (568 seasons).

The top 12 teams by tenure in their city & league do not leave the AL or NL. 14 of the top 17 teams remain in their current league.

The remaining NL teams have an average of 99 seasons in their city in the NL.
The remaining AL teams have an average of 96 seasons in their city in the AL.
The PCL has only 41 years AVG in their AL or NL city (326 seasons)
The CBL has only 30 years AVG in their AL or NL city (242 seasons)


The most radical changes are obviously the PCL and CBL. The PCL would go from 110 games in the PTZ/MTZ to 126. No Central Time Zone teams in their division (AL West). Rivalry games with SF-OAK, LAA-LAD, LAA-SD, PORT-SEA.


The CBL includes six of the nine shortest tenures in their current city in their current league (including the bottom three).

HOU (5 AL Seasons) - just switched leagues. Stays with Texas. No longer in the AL West (win for them).

WAS (13 NL Seasons) - "just arrived" from Montreal. Washington baseball history was two versions of the American League Senators until 1973.

TB (20 AL Seasons) - is a one of the newest four franchises. They are 968 miles from their closest AL East "Rival" (BAL) and 1167 miles from NYY.
In this model, TB gets Miami and Washington (Closer than BAL), Houston and Texas (closer than NYY). The Mets instead of the Yankees (about the same), keeps Toronto.

MIA (25) is a one of the newest four franchises. They get Tampa as a rival. They keep former NL East foe NYM, and WAS, and MON.

MON (36) was in the NL from 1969-2004. They're coming back so it's almost at zero. They now have a division rivalry with Toronto, face Washington (who took their team), and the Mets who were their very first opponent in 1969.

TOR (41) Going to have an easier time winning their division by leaving the Yankees/Red Sox. Keeps a NY rival. Gains Montreal as a rival. Adds TEX as a rival, which is odd, but they've had a couple heated encounters the last few seasons, so that could go "Red Wings-Avalanche" style.

Texas (46) has never liked being in the West anyway for TV and travel reasons.

You have three pairs who've always been geographically isolated by distance or culture: HOU-TEX, MIA-TB, MON-TOR.


You may now lose your minds.

 

[patnyrnyg]

https://sports.yahoo.com/major-league-baseball-considering-expansion-164737396.html


1. Baseball easily has enough talent for 32 teams if football does and hockey has 31 teams.

2. Montreal deserves a team, but I'd rather see Vancouver than Portland.

3. We should have 4 8 team divisions NOW...with the two best non-division winners getting WCs, no WC play in game.

4. Expand the playoffs...too many regular season games.

When I first saw the thread title I thought I would hate it. Reading the article, I would LOVE it! Would love to see the Mets and Yankees in the same division. We would have Rangers-Isles in baseball, and probably a more intense rivalry than Rangers-Isles.

 

[cutchemist42]

Now the realignment part. Personally, I don't think very many fans want the AL/NL to disappear. What we want is FAIR pennant races with lots of teams in the race for a long time. We don't want playoffs like the NBA, where half the league makes it.

As a realist, I understand that making balanced schedules is at odds with the modern TV start time problem. So here's my "Traditionalist" Radical Realignment concept.
I do NOT "favor" this radical realignment to a 16-NL, 16-AL, two divisions of 8 each. But I understand that an eight team division probably isn't going to happen; and this is my compromise if MLB is hell bent on joining the West together:

American League: BAL, BOS, NYY, CLE || DET, CWS, MIN, KCR
National League: CHC, STL, MIL, COL || CIN, PIT, PHI, ATL
Pacific League: SFG, LAD, SDP, ARZ || SEA, OAK, LAA, Portland
Continental League: TEX, HOU, MIA, TBR || NYM, WAS, TOR, Montreal

18 against your league (126 games)
36 games interleague games - 1 (three-game) series against each team in three of the other six divisions per year. (Play the whole league home/away every 4 years).

#1 - We get the West for TV purposes that the West needs.
#2 - Each division has THE EXACT SAME schedule.
#3 - Each LEAGUE has a schedule that's at maximum 24 games different. As of right now, it's 57 games different.

#4 - We do it with limited damage to the AL/NL structure. It's based on "revisionist history." Back in 1957, you had two eight-team leagues playing 154 games against each other, winner to the World Series. The Pacific Coast League was an open league with 8 teams doing the same thing. Instead of the Dodgers/Giants/Athletics' moving west and destroying the PCL, I'm just pretending they "joined it" and make it a third major league. The proposed Continental League becomes the "fourth major league."


In Baseball America's radical plan, there's a combined 2128 seasons of each city's team being in their current league totally wiped out.
In this concept, we're only changing ONE QUARTER of the combined tenure (568 seasons).

The top 12 teams by tenure in their city & league do not leave the AL or NL. 14 of the top 17 teams remain in their current league.

The remaining NL teams have an average of 99 seasons in their city in the NL.
The remaining AL teams have an average of 96 seasons in their city in the AL.
The PCL has only 41 years AVG in their AL or NL city (326 seasons)
The CBL has only 30 years AVG in their AL or NL city (242 seasons)


The most radical changes are obviously the PCL and CBL. The PCL would go from 110 games in the PTZ/MTZ to 126. No Central Time Zone teams in their division (AL West). Rivalry games with SF-OAK, LAA-LAD, LAA-SD, PORT-SEA.


The CBL includes six of the nine shortest tenures in their current city in their current league (including the bottom three).

HOU (5 AL Seasons) - just switched leagues. Stays with Texas. No longer in the AL West (win for them).

WAS (13 NL Seasons) - "just arrived" from Montreal. Washington baseball history was two versions of the American League Senators until 1973.

TB (20 AL Seasons) - is a one of the newest four franchises. They are 968 miles from their closest AL East "Rival" (BAL) and 1167 miles from NYY.
In this model, TB gets Miami and Washington (Closer than BAL), Houston and Texas (closer than NYY). The Mets instead of the Yankees (about the same), keeps Toronto.

MIA (25) is a one of the newest four franchises. They get Tampa as a rival. They keep former NL East foe NYM, and WAS, and MON.

MON (36) was in the NL from 1969-2004. They're coming back so it's almost at zero. They now have a division rivalry with Toronto, face Washington (who took their team), and the Mets who were their very first opponent in 1969.

TOR (41) Going to have an easier time winning their division by leaving the Yankees/Red Sox. Keeps a NY rival. Gains Montreal as a rival. Adds TEX as a rival, which is odd, but they've had a couple heated encounters the last few seasons, so that could go "Red Wings-Avalanche" style.

Texas (46) has never liked being in the West anyway for TV and travel reasons.

You have three pairs who've always been geographically isolated by distance or culture: HOU-TEX, MIA-TB, MON-TOR.


You may now lose your minds.

I really do love your insightful posts.

I personally love the layout. I think Montreal is a lock in an expansion. What if Mexico City/Monterey/San Antonio was the other team?

 

[BattleBorn]

As much as I think hockey/baseball/football whatever international expansion seems like an awesome idea, the currency issues that come up in the NHL world as well as the MLB/NBA are even greater when considering Mexico.

They're still going to pay in US Dollars, and they're going to collect revenue in Pesos. I'm thinking we've got a long way to go before that's even an option.

 

[Kitsune]

If the expansion fee is 1 billion.... how is Montreal a lock? Dont know who would put up the 2.25 billion cad (1.25 cad expansion fee + 1 billion for stadium) required for a Montreal baseball team.

 

[ponder719]

American League: BAL, BOS, NYY, CLE || DET, CWS, MIN, KCR
National League: CHC, STL, MIL, COL || CIN, PIT, PHI, ATL
Pacific League: SFG, LAD, SDP, ARZ || SEA, OAK, LAA, Portland
Continental League: TEX, HOU, MIA, TBR || NYM, WAS, TOR, Montreal

I completely get the reasoning, but I hate the division you've given the Phillies. I can't envision a scenario where I have a reason to care about the Reds, the Braves are the rivals I least like caring about, and the Pirates... well, OK, that one makes sense. They're the team that we miss most in our division. Can't say I'm a fan of having regular trips to Denver in there, but c'est la vie.

For personal preference, I'd want to switch Atlanta and Washington, but that's because Washington's my wife's team, and I want them to be division rivals. Logically, switching the Braves and the Mets makes more sense to me. Atlanta is closer to Florida and Texas, which improves travel within the Continental League, while New York is closer to Ohio and Philadelphia. They're also a traditional rival in a way the Braves aren't really; we only hate the Braves because of the way the 90s played out. If you made that swap, I'd deal with the Reds, for Pittsburgh's sake.

 

[Bjorn Le]

Does the OP mean that MLB should go back to having only eight teams make the playoffs from the second point? If they did that, it would be the worst move a major sports league has made in North America ever. By far. Baseball has benefited tremendously from additional playoff spots, from the first Wildcard 22 years ago, and from the second five years ago. It makes September much better.

In this setup, they'll go from 10 teams making the playoffs to 12. I don't like the BA writer's suggestion however. Baseball has been walking a fine line with their knockout wildcard games since 2012, but has been insulated by the fact there has been no occasion where a clearly better team has been bested by someone in the one game playoff. If they go to eight "wild card" spots, you will probably have an upset every year.

Really, baseball should go to a 16 team playoff, similar to the NHL, where the top 3 in each division make the playoffs and the next top 2 as wildcards who play the division winners (#7 plays the division winner with the lower winning %, and #8 plays the division winner with the higher winning %). Then the "wildcard series" can be a three game series, and if the top team losses out they can't blame it on one game bad luck. If they do drop down to 156 games, there is plenty of time to add in two extra games.

I like the no DH because of the wrinkle it adds to pitching and lineups. I think losing it altogether would be a net negative for the league.

However, I'm a fan of an NL team, so I get if people disagree.

I get the argument, but how many pitchers have been injured hitting because they simply don't do it anymore? The answer is too many. Even 20 years ago, most pitchers at least hit sometimes in college, and every single one of them played a position in high school in addition to pitching. Today, only fringe prospects who played both because they weren't good enough to specialized as a hitter or pitcher play both. Sometimes, those guys end up as stars in college and get drafted high (ex. Stroman for the Jays) but that's few and far between. I never want to see a pitcher get hurt running the bases again. Two-side threats like Shohei Otani notwithstanding.

A similar article teased Portland last month. If only there was an active ownership group to galvanize a city council or Metro or a county.

There's people whispering about a "silent" ownership group waiting in the wings. The same was done when Portland was supposedly competing for the Expos. Chuckle.

It's not that hard to believe. A silent ownership group was all but confirmed in Montreal when it came out that Bronfman hired the largest architecture firm in Quebec to draw up plans for a modern baseball stadium.

Now, I think there's at least two markets better than Portland (Vancouver, BC and Monterrey, Mexico), but I don't think it's far-fetched at all that Portland has a silent prospective ownership group.

If the expansion fee is 1 billion.... how is Montreal a lock? Dont know who would put up the 2.25 billion cad (1.25 cad expansion fee + 1 billion for stadium) required for a Montreal baseball team.

Because the silent ownership group likely behind recent moves in Montreal to bring back a team includes Stephen Bronfman and Bell Canada. Potentially the Molson family as well. Bell Canada could do it alone, but with a MLSE style setup, Bronfman and BCE Inc. can easily afford an expansion fee and private side costs for a stadium. They won't be building it with entirely private funding anyway.

 

[IU Hawks fan]

American League: BAL, BOS, NYY, CLE || DET, CWS, MIN, KCR
National League: CHC, STL, MIL, COL || CIN, PIT, PHI, ATL
Pacific League: SFG, LAD, SDP, ARZ || SEA, OAK, LAA, Portland
Continental League: TEX, HOU, MIA, TBR || NYM, WAS, TOR, Montreal

You've posted this idea a few years back I believe, and I really like it compared to the scrapping the NL and AL altogether.

My only adjustments would be these:

American League: BAL, BOS, NYY, TOR || DET, CWS, MIN, CLE
National League: CHC, STL, MIL, CIN || NYM, PIT, PHI, ATL
Pacific League: SFG, LAD, SDP, ARZ || SEA, OAK, LAA, Portland
Continental League: TEX, HOU, COL, KCR || MIA, WAS, TB, Montreal

I'm not sure if your 4 team divisions meant anything, but I kept them in tact and adjusted within.

Colorado feels really out of place geographically with the current NL Central. Meanwhile, Toronto fits better in this nearly all northern AL than KC. That group of 4 in the south-central seems to be a good fit for everyone. I'm moving the Mets back up the Phillies, now that the Reds have shifted over and created a spot.

I could also see the Braves and Nats swapping. I understand wanting to keep long-time AL & NL teams in theirs, but the Braves have moved so often they barely feel like a original franchise, despite being the oldest.

 

[Acesolid]

If the expansion fee is 1 billion.... how is Montreal a lock? Dont know who would put up the 2.25 billion cad (1.25 cad expansion fee + 1 billion for stadium) required for a Montreal baseball team.

Oh, there is a large group of very, very, very wealthy people working on it. Including Stephen Bronfman and Mitch Garber, many corporations, etc...

And both Québec and MTL have the money ready and a handshake agreement for a new stadium once a team is given.

Sources are unanimous on this. They just need to recieve the call from MLB.... and the gears will turn very, very quickly. Like Winnipeg or Vegas in the NHL.

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/montreal/montreal-expos-investors-1.4046389

 

[Glacial]

8 team divisions ain't gonna happen. Teams owners aren't gonna like finishing 7th or 8th, with what that'll do for fan attendance & morale. It's just like doing away with the DH- the clock is not going to be rolled back.

And combining AL & NL? That would make for some nastier rivalries (Cubs/White Sox, Giants/As, Yankees/Mets). Each league is a set of associated teams, rivals. It's a lot to erase by tossing into a giant blender, combining both like divisions and peeling off some teams to create a new 4th division out of. Many divisions didn't have perfect balance for many years in the big 4 sports. 5+6+5 5+6+5 might be preferable to 8+8+8+8 for multiple reasons.

MLB seems behind on the expansion front. The groundwork should've been laid within the past few years for a debut between now and 2020. Montreal has often been said, once they get a new stadium deal done, they can get a team. Manfred doesn't want to start expansion til all teams have stadium issues settled (which can be a whack-a-mole topic) but the outstanding issues- A's and Rays, have one mostly solved, the other open (Rays seem unlikely to get a deal done in the Tampa Bay Area). Question becomes, Rays relocate to Montreal, what are the 2 markets? Salt Lake City seems reasonable by size, geographic distance to other teams. Carolina's cities, per posts here, have issues with having a MLB team and logically, Nashville, Raleigh-Durham, Charlotte should have 1 MLB team between them minimum. But each potential market needs a potential owner and a stadium. That takes time to get done.

 

[PCSPounder]

MLB seems behind on the expansion front. The groundwork should've been laid within the past few years for a debut between now and 2020. Montreal has often been said, once they get a new stadium deal done, they can get a team. Manfred doesn't want to start expansion til all teams have stadium issues settled (which can be a whack-a-mole topic) but the outstanding issues- A's and Rays, have one mostly solved, the other open (Rays seem unlikely to get a deal done in the Tampa Bay Area). Question becomes, Rays relocate to Montreal, what are the 2 markets? Salt Lake City seems reasonable by size, geographic distance to other teams. Carolina's cities, per posts here, have issues with having a MLB team and logically, Nashville, Raleigh-Durham, Charlotte should have 1 MLB team between them minimum. But each potential market needs a potential owner and a stadium. That takes time to get done.

I went back to see why the frack a 1.5 million market like SLC (and another one like Charlotte) are listed here... I see where the math geeks let them get to 2.4 million. The problem: both markets are reaching too far out to encompass what are really small towns at more than 30 miles away rather than suburbs. Counting on people to get home from SLC to Provo and Ogden and then turn right back around, good luck with that.

OK, while I think Charlotte's been playing with a bit of fuzzy math themselves, thing is, the 10+ million of the TV market in the Carolinas has always been something on which some MLB honchos have been ready to pounce. Only issue; a new AAA park finally got built in uptown Charlotte in the last few years. That makes the larger investment a little harder to achieve.