OT Kapernick files grievance against NFL for collusion

[Riptide]

He's probably not wrong, but it's hard to prove his side of this. At this point, he's a good back-up and a decent stop-gap QB.

Since he's more of a dual-threat guy, it limits the teams that would be interested in him. It would be difficult if he were a back-up to a pocket passer because his strengths in case that guy goes down are completely different. So that narrows the teams.

Then when you look at those teams, you have to decide whether he's that much better than the next option.

And on top of all of that, teams are likely to deal with some sort of backlash politically.

I doubt you can prove collusion here.

Owners/GMs not signing him isn't collusion. Collusion is 2+ teams getting together and agreeing to both not sign him - not because they came up with it on their own, but because of reason X. Go and read the SI article, specifically points 1 & 2.

I honestly doubt that multiple teams, or a team and the league got together or discussed him to the point that a team decided not to sign him based on whatever reason they were fed by the other party. Again, a team choosing to go in a different direction (even signing a lesser player) because they're cheaper or because they're less of a distraction is not collusion - even if multiple teams do the same thing.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/10/15/colin-kaepernick-collusion-lawsuit-against-nfl

 

[byrath]

Rightly or wrongly, any team that signs him is going to seriously piss off a sizable number of their fans. It's not hard at all to imagine that no team would be interested.

 

[stator]

I was trying to find how much his union, NFLPA, is supporting this. Apparently, not so much.

 

[swimmer77]

Cannot think of a reason why owners would want to even consider "colluding" against him. I understand the reasoning behind some owners not hiring him but as others have already pointed out those are independent decisions.

What would they have to possibly gain by "colluding"? I mean a group of owners, hypothetically, over a couple of martinis decided for the sake of the league's image "let's not sign Kaepernick". Just wonder what the justifiable evidence may be for Kaepernick to pursue this.

 

[Riptide]

Cannot think of a reason why owners would want to even consider "colluding" against him. I understand the reasoning behind some owners not hiring him but as others have already pointed out those are independent decisions.

What would they have to possibly gain by "colluding"? I mean a group of owners, hypothetically, over a couple of martinis decided for the sake of the league's image "let's not sign Kaepernick". Just wonder what the justifiable evidence may be for Kaepernick to pursue this.

I think we're going to find out that he's just seriously butt hurt over not playing/getting signed by anyone - especially as he is better then a bunch of the guys who are signed/playing, and is now swinging for the stars.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Football wise he is asking for a minimum 8 million and most teams have their rosters set. QB's need months some years to understand a new offense, build chemistry with his teammates, and control the offense. Why would anyone sign him now since the season has already started? He had chances in both Seattle and Baltimore, and ruined them for various reasons. It's not like he's a linebacker a freaking QB rarely changes team with success.

The 8 mil ask is not really proven and even if it was, it may not have anything to do with whether collusion happens. As for chances in both Seattle and Baltimore, none of those were actually proven to be legitimate chances either. As for why anyone would sign him now, why don't you ask why anyone would sign Brandon Weeden? The answer is the same. Need. You can say what you want about Kaepernick's effectiveness as a starter or as a QB in general. He's miles better than Brandon Weeden. The only people buying that his political stances are a distraction are fans and management but it's not for legitimate reasons.

 

[TOGuy14]

The 8 mil ask is not really proven and even if it was, it may not have anything to do with whether collusion happens. As for chances in both Seattle and Baltimore, none of those were actually proven to be legitimate chances either. As for why anyone would sign him now, why don't you ask why anyone would sign Brandon Weeden? The answer is the same. Need. You can say what you want about Kaepernick's effectiveness as a starter or as a QB in general. He's miles better than Brandon Weeden. The only people buying that his political stances are a distraction are fans and management but it's not for legitimate reasons.

Again there are many dimensions that need to be evaluated.

Is Kap better than Weeden? Maybe, it's probably close though.

The key thing is Weeden signed for 750K. How much does Kap want?

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Again there are many dimensions that need to be evaluated.

Is Kap better than Weeden? Maybe, it's probably close though.

The key thing is Weeden signed for 750K. How much does Kap want?

Maybe? No, it's not even close. Kap is miles better than Weeden. If you can't even acknowledge that, you're not trying to have an authentic conversation. And it is unknown what Kap wants in salary.

 

[Wingsfan 4 life]

All those players followed a movement.

He instigated it. Martin Luther King instigated a movement and got murdered for it. Many others just participated with minor to no consequences.

I don't really consider Kaepernick the instigator for the protests this year. IMO, those protests were more a middle finger to Trump than it was a show of support to Kaepernick and his reasons for it. Where were they all last year, when Kaepernick first started doing it?

 

[Gnashville]

Owners/GMs not signing him isn't collusion. Collusion is 2+ teams getting together and agreeing to both not sign him - not because they came up with it on their own, but because of reason X. Go and read the SI article, specifically points 1 & 2.

I honestly doubt that multiple teams, or a team and the league got together or discussed him to the point that a team decided not to sign him based on whatever reason they were fed by the other party. Again, a team choosing to go in a different direction (even signing a lesser player) because they're cheaper or because they're less of a distraction is not collusion - even if multiple teams do the same thing.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/10/15/colin-kaepernick-collusion-lawsuit-against-nfl

Agreed I don’t think he is being blackballed and is playing up to the Social Justice people that worship him

Maybe? No, it's not even close. Kap is miles better than Weeden. If you can't even acknowledge that, you're not trying to have an authentic conversation. And it is unknown what Kap wants in salary.

You just don’t get it Weeden was signed to a practice squad and NOT as the back up! Kaepernick wants a chance to be a starter and wanted to be paid like it. He turned down the back up role in Seattle and 8 million a season reportedly. Titans were looking for a cheap option for the Practice Squad. The fact that far left wingers at ESPN , Rolling Stone and others went crazy and claimed Kaepernick should have been signed because they support his political statements, without looking at the Titans actual need. Floyd Reese was called horrible things for an actual realistic analysis of Kaepernick and why he doesn’t fit here. He is the only GM in NFL history with 3 starting black QB’s and he was called a Klansman for telling the truth. As a Titans fan I had to hear it for a week and he’s not a fit. Yes he’s probably better than Weeden but why hire and pay a CEO when all you need is a middle manager?

 

[TOGuy14]

Maybe? No, it's not even close. Kap is miles better than Weeden. If you can't even acknowledge that, you're not trying to have an authentic conversation. And it is unknown what Kap wants in salary.

Miles better? Hardly.

Both aren't very good players at their positions. Kaepernick may get an advantage because Weeden hasn't played recently, but when both were on the field at the same time they put up similar numbers...

 

[Pinkfloyd]

You just don’t get it Weeden was signed to a practice squad and NOT as the back up! Kaepernick wants a chance to be a starter and wanted to be paid like it. He turned down the back up role in Seattle and 8 million a season reportedly. Titans were looking for a cheap option for the Practice Squad. The fact that far left wingers at ESPN , Rolling Stone and others went crazy and claimed Kaepernick should have been signed because they support his political statements, without looking at the Titans actual need. Floyd Reese was called horrible things for an actual realistic analysis of Kaepernick and why he doesn’t fit here. He is the only GM in NFL history with 3 starting black QB’s and he was called a Klansman for telling the truth. As a Titans fan I had to hear it for a week and he’s not a fit. Yes he’s probably better than Weeden but why hire and pay a CEO when all you need is a middle manager?

There is no definitive proof that shows that Kaepernick wants a chance to be a starter and be paid like it at this point. Maybe it will come out but I'm not going to go off of rumors when it comes to an issue of collusion. There are many different levels of nuance to something like this and that's certainly debateable. What is not debateable is saying that Weeden is at all comparable to Kaepernick in terms of being an effective QB. Nobody can make a legitimate fact-based claim to that end but people have tried to actually equate the two in effectiveness and it's pure baloney.

Miles better? Hardly.

Both aren't very good players at their positions. Kaepernick may get an advantage because Weeden hasn't played recently, but when both were on the field at the same time they put up similar numbers...

Miles better. If you believe otherwise, you simply don't care to actually research the two and how they're vastly different. Kaepernick is a legitimate starter in the NFL and his numbers reflect that. Weeden can barely be a 3rd string QB anywhere and his numbers reflect that as well. The last time that Weeden was a legitimate starting QB in the NFL, he had more picks than TD's. Kap had a 4:1 TD-INT ratio last season something that Weeden has never come remotely close to accomplishing.

 

[TOGuy14]

There is no definitive proof that shows that Kaepernick wants a chance to be a starter and be paid like it at this point. Maybe it will come out but I'm not going to go off of rumors when it comes to an issue of collusion. There are many different levels of nuance to something like this and that's certainly debateable. What is not debateable is saying that Weeden is at all comparable to Kaepernick in terms of being an effective QB. Nobody can make a legitimate fact-based claim to that end but people have tried to actually equate the two in effectiveness and it's pure baloney.



Miles better. If you believe otherwise, you simply don't care to actually research the two and how they're vastly different. Kaepernick is a legitimate starter in the NFL and his numbers reflect that. Weeden can barely be a 3rd string QB anywhere and his numbers reflect that as well. The last time that Weeden was a legitimate starting QB in the NFL, he had more picks than TD's. Kap had a 4:1 TD-INT ratio last season something that Weeden has never come remotely close to accomplishing.

He throws a lot of short passes which gives him a good P% and few interceptions, it also means he doesn't gain much yardage or throw for many total touchdowns.

His best ever passing season was 4 years ago and he finished 20th in total yardage, 31st in yards per game, and 17th for total passing TDs

Not really arguing that Weeden is a good QB, just that Kaepernick isn't good either.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

He throws a lot of short passes which gives him a good P% and few interceptions, it also means he doesn't gain much yardage or throw for many total touchdowns.

His best ever passing season was 4 years ago and he finished 20th in total yardage, 31st in yards per game, and 17th for total passing TDs

Not really arguing that Weeden is a good QB, just that Kaepernick isn't good either.

You're not arguing that Weeden is a good QB. You're arguing that Weeden is close to Kaepernick when that is an absurd statement to make. Your words imply that Kaepernick is no better or marginally better than Weeden. That is also an absurd statement to make. You did only half of what you needed to do to actually try and justify those statements. Now do the other half which is to actually compare him to Weeden but I doubt you will do that because when you find out what Weeden has done, you will realize how ridiculous it is to believe that it's close between Weeden and Kaepernick. It's not remotely near close. You can have plenty of justifiable criticisms of Kaepernick as a QB. He's got plenty of them but to try and frame it as if he's as bad as Weeden is horrifyingly inaccurate to the point that one would think it's being done to suit an agenda more than actually make a legitimate point.

 

[TOGuy14]

You're not arguing that Weeden is a good QB. You're arguing that Weeden is close to Kaepernick when that is an absurd statement to make. Your words imply that Kaepernick is no better or marginally better than Weeden. That is also an absurd statement to make. You did only half of what you needed to do to actually try and justify those statements. Now do the other half which is to actually compare him to Weeden but I doubt you will do that because when you find out what Weeden has done, you will realize how ridiculous it is to believe that it's close between Weeden and Kaepernick. It's not remotely near close. You can have plenty of justifiable criticisms of Kaepernick as a QB. He's got plenty of them but to try and frame it as if he's as bad as Weeden is horrifyingly inaccurate to the point that one would think it's being done to suit an agenda more than actually make a legitimate point.

Considering Kaepernick's best season was in 2013 and that in 2012 Weeden significantly outplayed him I don't know why you keep trying to make an argument that there is some sort of chasm between their skill sets.

I already conceded Kaepernick may be more game ready right now considering Weeden hasn't played recently, but when they are both "on" I don't think there is much discernible difference between them at this point really. Both would be "game manager" types that you put out there with the hope they won't lose the game for you and your defence can generate some turnovers.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Considering Kaepernick's best season was in 2013 and that in 2012 Weeden significantly outplayed him I don't know why you keep trying to make an argument that there is some sort of chasm between their skill sets.

I already conceded Kaepernick may be more game ready right now considering Weeden hasn't played recently, but when they are both "on" I don't think there is much discernible difference between them at this point really. Both would be "game manager" types that you put out there with the hope they won't lose the game for you and your defence can generate some turnovers.

Are you comparing Weeden's 2012 season to Kap's 2012 season or to Kap's 2013 season? I mean both are ridiculous but I'd like clarification before I get into it.

As for differences in skill sets and the type of QB's they'd be, they're pretty far off for anyone who has seen both play. Just because Kap can game manage doesn't mean that's all he is. He has game-breaking athletic ability that Weeden simply doesn't have.

 

[Gnashville]

There is no definitive proof that shows that Kaepernick wants a chance to be a starter and be paid like it at this point. Maybe it will come out but I'm not going to go off of rumors when it comes to an issue of collusion. There are many different levels of nuance to something like this and that's certainly debateable. What is not debateable is saying that Weeden is at all comparable to Kaepernick in terms of being an effective QB. Nobody can make a legitimate fact-based claim to that end but people have tried to actually equate the two in effectiveness and it's pure baloney.



Miles better. If you believe otherwise, you simply don't care to actually research the two and how they're vastly different. Kaepernick is a legitimate starter in the NFL and his numbers reflect that. Weeden can barely be a 3rd string QB anywhere and his numbers reflect that as well. The last time that Weeden was a legitimate starting QB in the NFL, he had more picks than TD's. Kap had a 4:1 TD-INT ratio last season something that Weeden has never come remotely close to accomplishing.

It's not about who is better! It is about who fills a role and what the price was. You admit that Weeden is a 3rd string QB but don't seem to understand that the Titans wanted a 3rd string QB. So they signed Weeden and can release him without and headaches or protests.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

It's not about who is better! It is about who fills a role and what the price was. You admit that Weeden is a 3rd string QB but don't seem to understand that the Titans wanted a 3rd string QB. So they signed Weeden and can release him without and headaches or protests.

It's not about who is better. In the Titans' case, it's more about looking at it with the wrong premise. The Titans wanting a 3rd string QB when Mariota was hurt when they could have gotten someone to help them win without changing the offense dramatically was wrong. Or probably more accurately, they're okay with using weak excuses to keep a guy out that they don't agree with politically even if it means putting out an obviously worse team than what was available.

 

[Gnashville]

It's not about who is better. In the Titans' case, it's more about looking at it with the wrong premise. The Titans wanting a 3rd string QB when Mariota was hurt when they could have gotten someone to help them win without changing the offense dramatically was wrong. Or probably more accurately, they're okay with using weak excuses to keep a guy out that they don't agree with politically even if it means putting out an obviously worse team than what was available.

It is clear you know nothing about the Titans offense and are listening to ESPN's politics. The Titans do NOT run the "read option" and Mariota makes most plays from the pocket. It's used but mostly as a play action play more than actual QB run. Mariota didn't run one time last night and the team runs most plays from the I formation. People simply refuse to accept that the Titans were not expecting Mariota to miss any games and had a capable back up in Matt Cassel.
Signing Kaepernick alienates 40/50% of your fanbase and brings a media circus that is a headache to deal with.
What's going to happen when they release Kaepernick when Mariota gets 100%? Everyone is going to scream Racism and it's going to be a media circus. Weeden does not bring that baggage and is cheaper. [mod]

Why is there no outcry from Robert Griffin III to get signed?

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Because no one likes RGIII and he sucks

Kaepernick at least has some fans and friends around league. RGIII alienated everyone in NFL with his antics in DC which eventually lost locker room and then way he left DC on final day of locker clean out didn't do anything to improve his reputation

Then he went to the dumpster fire that is Cleveland and showed he wasn't a #1 caliber QB. LA Chargers showed interest in him during offseason but after seeing him work out passed on him

 

[Gnashville]

Because no one likes RGIII and he sucks

Kaepernick at least has some fans and friends around league. RGIII alienated everyone in NFL with his antics in DC which eventually lost locker room and then way he left DC on final day of locker clean out didn't do anything to improve his reputation

Then he went to the dumpster fire that is Cleveland and showed he wasn't a #1 caliber QB. LA Chargers showed interest in him during offseason but after seeing him work out passed on him

I like him he's exciting.
If not for Kaepernick's politics would anyone care about him? Some teams will lose 1/2 of your fans when you sign CK (probably more in places like Miami).

 

[adsfan]

He 100% should be in the league. All the talk about distraction is a bunch of BS. Owners like Jerry Jones signed a guy who beat the **** out of his girlfriend but won't sign someone who took a knee during the anthem because its a distraction (although, with Dak there, there isn't much of a fit). Owners sign players that are distractions every year.

Kap might not be a starting QB, but he is better than many QBs who have started this year, I'll name a few for you: Kizer, Hogan, Cassel, Cutler, Tolzien, Bortles, Hoyer, Hundley (who will start next week for GB). That is not even including back-ups who haven't started games, of which he is better than basically every single one.

All that being said, proving collusion is going to be nearly impossible.

I don't agree with your list of QBs for multiple reasons.Cutler is 3-2 with Miami. Kap was 1-10 in SF in 2016 a.nd has not played in 10 months. Hundley had Zero snaps with the first string last week in practice. He did get 10 points on the board to go with 3 INTs. He will look much better this week. That back up for Brady is better. If he was any good, NYG or CLV would sign him.

Kap brings division to the locker room along with a truck full of luggage.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

It is clear you know nothing about the Titans offense and are listening to ESPN's politics. The Titans do NOT run the "read option" and Mariota makes most plays from the pocket. It's used but mostly as a play action play more than actual QB run. Mariota didn't run one time last night and the team runs most plays from the I formation. People simply refuse to accept that the Titans were not expecting Mariota to miss any games and had a capable back up in Matt Cassel.
Signing Kaepernick alienates 40/50% of your fanbase and brings a media circus that is a headache to deal with.
What's going to happen when they release Kaepernick when Mariota gets 100%? Everyone is going to scream Racism and it's going to be a media circus. Weeden does not bring that baggage and is cheaper. The leftist media wants Kaepernick signed and as most liberals do, he and the media is playing the race/victim Card.

Why is there no outcry from Robert Griffin III to get signed?

And it's clear that you don't know anything about Kaepernick's experience because he didn't run the read option anywhere near as much as the people like you believe. It was not the predominant style that he ran in his time as a 49er. The idea that Kaepernick alienates 40/50% of your fan base is pure speculation pulled out of thin air that is not supported by anything resembling facts. [mod]

The RG3 thing has already been brought up, acknowledged, and shown why it's just a thinly disguised attempt to distract from the point. A normal tactic for those w/o a real argument.

 

[blood gin]

I understand Trump breathed new life into this, but Kaepernick can't go away fast enough.

And it's clear that you don't know anything about Kaepernick's experience because he didn't run the read option anywhere near as much as the people like you believe. It was not the predominant style that he ran in his time as a 49er. The idea that Kaepernick alienates 40/50% of your fan base is pure speculation pulled out of thin air that is not supported by anything resembling facts. That is quite simply your political bias showing through because that's what you want to believe is true. You're not actually making a legitimate argument here. You're just spouting off political talking points. That's it. Keep playing for that team.

The RG3 thing has already been brought up, acknowledged, and shown why it's just a thinly disguised attempt to distract from the point. A normal tactic for those w/o a real argument.

Kaepernick is probably the single most viscerally despised person in football right now and he's not even IN football. You think that NFL teams right now haven't had their lines burnt up by irate fans telling them what the consequences would be if they signed a wretch like Kaepernick? The league's ratings and attendance is plummeting now. You have people turning away in droves. Now imagine a team steps up and signs Kaepernick. His contribution on the field would be minimal if anything. Your own fans will hate you. Games played in places with patriotic Americans will become circuses with extra security. Your team will forever be know as the one who let Kaepernick back into the league. Your teams jersey will be defaced everywhere. The media is going to be prying and swarming everywhere. "Why does your team have a players with a Castro shirt on?" "Why did he send 25k to that organization that supports that cop killer in hiding in Cuba?"

I'll take Brandon Weeden thank you very much

 

[blood gin]

The NFL has to realize that it's not going to win this war against it's own fans here. You have people on both sides claiming a boycott, but one side is the side that wants respect for the flag and the politicized riff raff out of the league. They actually have money, love football, and keep the gravy train running for the NFL.

The other side is also claiming a boycott but how can you boycott something you never watch? Which boycott should you really fear? Jack, who pays $10,000 a year for season tickets and buys merchandise, or his professional protester son Gideon who gets a stipend from Jack to putter around Brooklyn saying blahblahblah lives matter and #somethingerutherforjustice?