Speculation: O'Reilly Mega Thread - ALL ROR Speculation Here

Sabresruletheschool

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If the Canes want to have a better team for the next 4-5 years and are looking to compete, they would make that trade in a heartbeat. O'Reilly will impact the team way more than Hanifin will. For Buffalo, adding Hanifin and losing O'Reilly, will not make Buffalo any better for a long time. They'll be adding a second pairing defenceman and losing a 60 point selke type center on an offence that can't score to begin with. If Buffalo made that trade, I gaurentee Hanifin will be a -22 on Buffalo and O'Reilly would be a big step towards making Carolina a playoff team.
 
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Big Daddy Cane

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Carolina doesn't need to give up as much if they acquire patches, and they need wingers more now that they seem to have their center issues dealt with. So the Habs Carolina trade would be based around patches for a young Dman and the trade with the sabres would be based around Dman from Carolina+ something from have for ROR

I’m curious what you have in mind. What Buffalo fans would deem as an acceptable return for O’Reilly, Pesce or Hanifin, is simply not obtainable by Montreal with Pacioretty as the guy coming back the other way, given his age and contractual status. Maybe Faulk would fit, but Buffalo fans have balked at the notion and that’s not unreasonable given Faulk’s recent play and contract term. That leaves Bean, Fleury and McKeown. What is that Montreal can add that Carolina can’t that makes a trade with one of those defenders as the centerpiece palatable for Buffalo?

While I did argue on a prior page that Carolina’s need for a center is not what it was, I didn’t mean to say that the Canes wouldn’t benefit from acquiring a center. Aho could go back to the LW. Lindholm, if retained, could go back to RW. Alternatively, Necas could start out at RW. Heck, O’Reilly is versatile enough to slide over to wing if necessary.

I was really trying to argue that some combination of Aho, Lindholm, Staal, Rask and Necas is enough to prevent the organization from having to chase a player on the sole basis of position. Edmonton fell into the trap of chasing a RHD several years ago and got burned badly for doing so. I don’t think Carolina needs to do that. If the cost of O’Reilly is Hanifin, but a JvR is available for nothing but budget space, then the Canes rolling with what they have at center and going for the winger is preferable in my mind. I guess given Dundon’s recent comments, the latter is not in the cards, but a trade for something similar with Bean/Fleury as the centerpiece may be possible.
 

Big Daddy Cane

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If the Canes want to have a better team for the next 4-5 years and are looking to compete, they would make that trade in a heartbeat. O'Reilly will impact the team way more than Hanifin will. For Buffalo, adding Hanifin and losing O'Reilly, will not make Buffalo any better for a long time. They'll be adding a second pairing defenceman and losing a 60 point selke type center on an offence that can't score to begin with. If Buffalo made that trade, I gaurentee Hanifin will be a -22 on Buffalo and O'Reilly would be a big step towards making Carolina a playoff team.

If he ends up panning out, I don’t know that it will take Hanifin that long to do so. Hanifin is entering post-draft year 4. Thinking about highly touted defenders that came into the league a bit raw, Jones started to hit his stride in post-draft year 4 and really broke out in 5. Hedman first hit 50 points in post-draft year 5 and was the 1D on a SCF finalist in 6. Dumba and Reilly broke out in post-draft year 6.

Carolina is thin offensively on the blueline. Slavin, Pesce, Fleury and van Riemsdyk are all defensive first defenders. Hanifin does play an important role on the team in that respect. There’s more risk than just what he could be.
 
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HockeyGuruPitka

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Why would Toronto want another center? I guess you could put O'Reilly back on wing but that kind of defeats the purpose. Or you could ask for O'Reilly and Reinhart for Kadri and Nylander. I don't think if that makes Buffalo any better of a team though.

You can never have too many centers. Good teams have depth down the middle (Crosby, Malking, Brassard). It would leave the leafs with Matthews, ROR, Kadri. It would also give us more options in terms of line matching. Its hard to watch the Leafs get beat in a series because we do not have an answer for one line.
 
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Rowley Birkin

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If the Canes want to have a better team for the next 4-5 years and are looking to compete, they would make that trade in a heartbeat. O'Reilly will impact the team way more than Hanifin will. For Buffalo, adding Hanifin and losing O'Reilly, will not make Buffalo any better for a long time. They'll be adding a second pairing defenceman and losing a 60 point selke type center on an offence that can't score to begin with. If Buffalo made that trade, I gaurentee Hanifin will be a -22 on Buffalo and O'Reilly would be a big step towards making Carolina a playoff team.

Hanifin makes the Sabres better more or less instantly. Either by anchoring another pairing (taking the load from Scandella - Risto or by pairing him with Risto & building a shut down pair anchored by Scandella) .

Yes the Sabres lose something up front & ROR is not replaceable by one player... But maybe replaceable by commitee.
 
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DJN21

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I know it' a ror thread but for purposes of discussion with canes fans on here what kind of value do you guys place on lindholm?
 

GoldiFox

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I know it' a ror thread but for purposes of discussion with canes fans on here what kind of value do you guys place on lindholm?

Opposing fan wanting Lindholm seem to be thinking "let's pick up this 23 year old former top-5 pick for peanuts and hope he breaks out". Given that he has little value compared to his Draft position, I can assure opposing fans that most Canes fans would rather see Lindholm at Center with a new coach. For whatever reason Bill Peters refused to play Elias in the middle until late last year.

I'm sure Lindholm is available as part of a package, but a better forward would have to be coming back. He is too versatile in the current lineup to deal away.
 
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Big Daddy Cane

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I know it' a ror thread but for purposes of discussion with canes fans on here what kind of value do you guys place on lindholm?

If the organization doesn’t want to make a commitment to him for hockey or contractual reasons, a change of scenery candidate of a similar caliber (i.e. Galchenyuk, Toffoli, etc.) If the organization doesn’t want to make a commitment to him for budgetary reasons, a prospect(s) or draft pick(s).
 

DJN21

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Opposing fan wanting Lindholm seem to be thinking "let's pick up this 23 year old former top-5 pick for peanuts and hope he breaks out". Given that he has little value compared to his Draft position, I can assure opposing fans that most Canes fans would rather see Lindholm at Center with a new coach. For whatever reason Bill Peters refused to play Elias in the middle until late last year.

I'm sure Lindholm is available as part of a package, but a better forward would have to be coming back. He is too versatile in the current lineup to deal away.

Well not quite. I asked politely no use for the attitude. From what I see sabres fans (rightfully so) are leary of trading away ror because it takes big defensive minutes off our roster...minutes we can't put on eichel or mitts. I have always though highly of Elias and thought he could be a very valuable middle six pivot i.e would reduce the sting of losing ror. Just looking at ways to expand a trade to meet needs for all to keep the conversation going...not trying to sell your guy short.
 

ole ole

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Der Jaeger just proposed something on our board involving Montreal.

Would MTL fans be open to the following?

ROR+2019 2nd for MTL 2018 1st (assuming picking 5-6 for example), MTL 2018 2nd and Ryan Poehling
Habs have no interest in this.
 

DJN21

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If the organization doesn’t want to make a commitment to him for hockey or contractual reasons, a change of scenery candidate of a similar caliber (i.e. Galchenyuk, Toffoli, etc.) If the organization doesn’t want to make a commitment to him for budgetary reasons, a prospect(s) or draft pick(s).

Asking honestly from a fan of the actual team...does lindholm's defensive game make up for a slight drop off in offensive output compared to toffoli and gally? Granted the offensive difference isn't huge especially after a strong year from elias? Genuinely asking not being condescending.
 

Royal Thunder

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Why would Toronto want another center? I guess you could put O'Reilly back on wing but that kind of defeats the purpose. Or you could ask for O'Reilly and Reinhart for Kadri and Nylander. I don't think if that makes Buffalo any better of a team though.
Yeah I wouldn't even consider that from a Sabres POV....
 

Sabresruletheschool

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Hanifin makes the Sabres better more or less instantly. Either by anchoring another pairing (taking the load from Scandella - Risto or by pairing him with Risto & building a shut down pair anchored by Scandella) .

Yes the Sabres lose something up front & ROR is not replaceable by one player... But maybe replaceable by commitee.

Hanifin would make the defence closer to being an actual NHL defence. But adding him alone and losing O'Reilly really wouldn't do a whole lot IMO. Buffalos top 6 would look rediculas with Eichel and Reinhart being the only two guys with any business playing in a top six role. That would put even more pressure on the defence.
 

GoldiFox

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Well not quite. I asked politely no use for the attitude. From what I see sabres fans (rightfully so) are leary of trading away ror because it takes big defensive minutes off our roster...minutes we can't put on eichel or mitts. I have always though highly of Elias and thought he could be a very valuable middle six pivot i.e would reduce the sting of losing ror. Just looking at ways to expand a trade to meet needs for all to keep the conversation going...not trying to sell your guy short.

You didn’t sell anyone short. I’m saying the Canes have sold Elias short by mismanaging his young career. He doesn’t have much value and there are still a lot of questions about his ceiling. Now that Peters has resigned most Canes fans are hoping that the change of scenery Lindholm needs can happen in Raleigh.

In regards to ROR I think most Canes fans would be fine with adding Lindholm as one of the 2-3 primary pieces. If the Canes were trading him for a 1st (not sure why the lot would but in a vacuum) I’d want a top-15 or top-10 pick. His upside (positionally and offensively) is higher than Hartman.
 
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Big Daddy Cane

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Asking honestly from a fan of the actual team...does lindholm's defensive game make up for a slight drop off in offensive output compared to toffoli and gally? Granted the offensive difference isn't huge especially after a strong year from elias? Genuinely asking not being condescending.

I mean, he doesn't stand out on the defensive side of the puck visually like an O'Reilly. If you look at the totality of his work, from being trusted enough to play RW next to Staal on a shutdown line for a significant chunk of time to his successful experiment at center this past season to being the preferred option when he's able to take draws on his forehand to killing penalties on a regular basis, I think that says a lot about his defensive ability.

Of the two players I mentioned, Lindholm hasn't had the single season peak of either, but as you mentioned, his production wasn't that far off after this year. Although, I wouldn't call this a strong year for Lindholm; his point production actually fell in 17-18. My hypothesis is that his versatility and contractual status (RFA) do help to make up for the slight offensive downgrade.

I will say that with the proper linemates, I still like Lindholm’s potential to be a 15-40/45 type forward. He’s not going to put up those numbers as the top dog on a line, but if put with a player that can adequately take advantage of his playmaking acumen, he has the potential to produce1st line numbers. We saw it next to Aho and Staal in the second half of 16-17; it didn’t work with the mishmash of Skinner, Di Giuseppe. Rask, Williams, McGinn, etc. in 17-18.
 
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DJN21

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Thanks for your insights. He strikes me as the guy we hoped girgensons could be albeit slightly less physical. Meanwhile girgensons has stalled while elias keeps plugging along.

Seems like a bit of a Swiss army knife for you guys and likely a player best suited to build around rather than deal off.

If I had to part with ror he'd be a primary target of mine as a piece involved in that trade. (For any dman on your team save faulk who I don't really want not suggesting hanifan plus elias etc).

At the risk of dragging this further off topic and I apologize but how has Gauthier progressed? Another guy I followed up to the draft but admittedly can't in good conscience value myself now as I haven't followed him recently?
 

Hulkacaniac

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Lindholm is that guy who is perpetually on the verge of a breakout but never gets there. Still he is a 40 point guy that is excellent for depth. Considering the return, I wouldn't move him.

Gauthier had a rough first season in the AHL, but it doesn't seem like the organization is too concerned. For a big guy from the Q, it's a tough transition to the pro game. He seemed to be doing better later in the season after getting benched and put in more defensive roles. They're taking a long approach with him.
 

Rowley Birkin

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Buffalos top 6 would look rediculas with Eichel and Reinhart being the only two guys with any business playing in a top six role. That would put even more pressure on the defence.

As i said he not replaceable by one single player but you look at the bigger picture.

Firstly i think it is more about your 'top 9' these days & you dont have to have superstars in every one of those nine positions.

The Sabres have way more depth up front than most think IMO. Numerous young guys who could make the jump along with guys like Rodrigues & Wilson who were rare bright spots last year. I also fear we take another high end F if we dont win the draft lottery too...

But the underlying factor in all of this & what i have been trying to preach for the last few years is - lets see what all of our forwards can do by playing in front of - at minimum - an NHL level defence. Lets see what they can do when the D is actually capable of getting them the puck quickly & effectively on a regular basis. It astounds me that some people (not you but some others on this forum) even now after numerous seasons of this s--t just fail to understand the basics.
 

Sabresruletheschool

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As i said he not replaceable by one single player but you look at the bigger picture.

Firstly i think it is more about your 'top 9' these days & you dont have to have superstars in every one of those nine positions.

The Sabres have way more depth up front than most think IMO. Numerous young guys who could make the jump along with guys like Rodrigues & Wilson who were rare bright spots last year. I also fear we take another high end F if we dont win the draft lottery too...

But the underlying factor in all of this & what i have been trying to preach for the last few years is - lets see what all of our forwards can do by playing in front of - at minimum - an NHL level defence. Lets see what they can do when the D is actually capable of getting them the puck quickly & effectively on a regular basis. It astounds me that some people (not you but some others on this forum) even now after numerous seasons of this s--t just fail to understand the basics.

I hear you. A bad defence can stifle an offence, and a bad offence can make good defenceman look terrible. My idea was to get better on the offensive side so we can controle play and keep pressure off of the defence. But your way could work too.
 

HabsEstrie

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So you will continue to play without an actual top 6 center until Price's contract turns into a drag on the team? Pretty sure Bergevin would have interest in this, regardless if you do or not.

LOL, the Habs are NOT giving up the picks they just tanked for. Especially not for a 2nd lie center. facepalm !
 

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