One year later: Larsson for Hall

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Burnt Biscuits

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May 2, 2010
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You're joking, right? Hall is not a "stud".

We're now 7 years into Hall's NHL career. Here's what he has NEVER done:
- played 1 playoff game
- back-to-back 60-point seasons
- scored 28 goals in a season
- played on a team with a winning record

After 7 years, an offensive #1 pick has never done any of these things, and you think he's a stud?

I suppose you also expect Yakupov to make the Hall of Fame someday.
Hall was a top 5 LW in the league when we traded him, he is tied for 10th highest 5on5 Pts/60 in the league over the last 4 years (even including this off year for him)(minimum 1500 min sample size), he has the highest IPP in the league showing he is having a rather large effect on his lines success. He was also was a 2 time back to back Memorial Cup MVP.

Taylor Hall did not fail us, we failed him with incompetent management, poorly constructed teams, often lacking balance, being perpetually weak on D, up the middle (for all but his last season as an Oiler), and in general sub-par goaltending. Taylor Hall is not a generational talent like McDavid which should go without saying and even if he was wingers generally can't swing the fortunes of a franchise around to that extent. Look no further than Rick Nash, Ilya Kovalchuk, & Dany Heatley who in their respective times were the top wingers in the league, but that didn't translate to much team success. Look at Jarome Iginla a for sure Hall of Famer who went his first 7 seasons without a playoff appearance. Look at Teemu Selanne and Brett Hull, both slam dunk HOFers, they had middling success in terms of ability to get their teams very far into the playoffs, it wasn't till they were older and on the downside of their respective careers that they got themselves on a team that could win a Stanley Cup.
 

Zaddy

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Feb 8, 2013
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I think this is one of those deals that are only going to look better as time goes on. Hall might very well be past his prime at this point, while Adam Larsson should only get better. Larsson is also a year younger, signed a year longer and on a cheaper deal. I think as some people on here say, that he is still underrated. He was a stabilizing force this year for the Oilers (and for Klefbom in particular). Guys like Demers or Hamonic wouldn't have had nearly the same impact. The value of having a guy who can actually go up against the best the league has to offer night in and night out and succeed is huge.

What Hall did here was to add offense, and while he is good at it, Oilers proved this year they didn't need his production. It's actually interesting, Hall only had 2 more points than Eberle this year and the same amount of goals, and Eberle was absolutely villified here and got traded for a downgrade. I wonder, what would Hall's value been if we waited another year (or two)? Probably not too different from Eberle. Fact is he has had three seasons in a row now where he hasn't even been close to hitting PPG. And with every year going by he's getting closer to UFA status.

I think Chia actually traded Hall just at the right time and maximized his value. Young top-pairing D like Larsson just aren't traded that often, and if they are it's usually for a C. If we kept waiting we'd probably would've had to move Draisaitl to get that D-man we needed. A much worse scenario.
 

The Panther

Registered User
Mar 25, 2014
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Hall was a top 5 LW in the league when we traded him, he is tied for 10th highest 5on5 Pts/60 in the league over the last 4 years (even including this off year for him)(minimum 1500 min sample size), he has the highest IPP in the league...
I mean, if his "10th highest 5on5 Pts/60 in the league over the last 4 years" is the best thing you can find in his defense, for a #1 overall pick who's had 7 years to show his true colors on two teams, you're REALLY digging.

I have no idea what "IPP" is, which probably means it's useless.
Taylor Hall did not fail us, we failed him with incompetent management, poorly constructed teams, often lacking balance, being perpetually weak on D, up the middle (for all but his last season as an Oiler), and in general sub-par goaltending.
There's some middle-ground here, but after seven years...? Sorry, no. This is the NHL, not a participation ribbon. You either get it done, or you don't. He hasn't. And it's not for lack of opportunity.

It's all well to say that the Oilers mis-managed him, but he did have one really good, healthy and productive season in Edmonton. But only one. If he could do it once, why not three or four times?

The moment Hall got here in 2010, the franchise basically gave him free rein to fail -- the attitude was: "We're gonna lose a lot of games, but you're gonna get ice-time and experience!" In a sense, they did fail him, because that's a terrible way to build a team, as everyone except Tambellini and Lowe knew. But he's had more than enough opportunities by now to do something impressive, and he hasn't.

Hall is a great skater and an above-average talent. Nobody will be surprised if he scores 30 goals and 80 points once for Jersey. But I would be surprised if does this twice.
Look at Jarome Iginla a for sure Hall of Famer who went his first 7 seasons without a playoff appearance.
Sort of a poor comparison. Two years prior to making the playoffs for the first time, Iginla had already led the NHL in goals and points. Also, between '97 and '02 he clearly got better every season, a direction Hall has not followed.

Also, everyone who met Iginla from Day-1 loved him and praised him as a great teammate and future leader. This is the opposite of Hall.


I think Chia actually traded Hall just at the right time and maximized his value.
I think you're right.
 

yukoner88

Registered User
Dec 16, 2009
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Would definitely do that trade again and again. Larsson has brought what we were needing for years and we'd still be looking if that trade doesn't happen. We'd be almost where Winnipeg finished in the standings last season I'd we don't have that depth on defense
 

CupofOil

Knob Flavored Coffey
Aug 20, 2009
46,279
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I am happy with the trade it filled a vital need, but I'm still questioning if we got proper value for Hall. For those who think Hall isn't doing well in NJ just based on looking at points, you should look at his With Or With You stats, just like his time here he makes nearly anyone he is playing with better.

I'm still a big fan of Hall, he can provide much the same element that Kessel does in Pittsburgh.

Yet Kessel who was arguably a better player than Hall got dealt for a good prospect plus a 1st.
The market has been set for very good, not great wingers and it's usually quantity for quality (Nash, Kessel) so the Oilers were quite fortunate IMO to get Larsson+2M cap space for the next 4 years for Hall. There's no comparable trade to prove that Hall should have garnered more value.

In retrospect, would it have been better to wait until this offseason and outbid Calgary's picks for Hamonic and keep Hall? Perhaps, but Chia didn't have the luxury of "waiting it out" for a better deal the next offseason. He had to pull the trigger for a top pairing RHD and Hall was the only asset that could get one. Going into last season with Klefbom-Sekera on the top pairing and who knows what on the 2nd pairing wasn't the answer, neither would have been a half measure like Demers who btw, has a bigger contract than Larsson.
 

KeithIsActuallyBad

You thrust your pelvis, huh!
Apr 12, 2010
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I approved of the trade then and I can guarantee if it wasn't made the Oilers don't make the playoffs.

Their defense was simply not good enough without the trade and would've forced Russell or Sekera to take on first pairing duties.

Hall is a fine winger, but that's really all he is. A fine winger.
 

StupidGenius

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Apr 1, 2013
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If New Jersey calls me looking for Adam Larsson, I'm asking them what they're adding to Hall. So yeah, I do this deal.
 

Pressure

Real Talk
Aug 11, 2005
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All day, everyday, not even thinking twice about it. Larsson in one year is so much more important to us than Hall ever was. Scoring wingers who play top minutes in the offensive zone and PP will get their points and to be frank, not even important. Devils went from a good defensive team, to the worst last year. They also had long offensive dry spells even with Hall playing.
 

PaPaDee

5-14-6-1
Sep 21, 2005
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I wasn't happy with the trade at the time, but pleased with it now. Value wise, I still don't necessarily call it a win. Larsson fills a huge need for us, but he's not as dynamic as Hall can be. Hall had a bit of a down year in NJ, will be interesting to see how he does this next season.
 

MaxR11

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Mar 28, 2017
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I liked the trade from the minute it was done . I was pushing to trade Hall for a defence man for 2 years . Got ripped on this board as it has a mob mentality , can't go against the mob . I also will probably get ripped when RNH is traded . He needs to go now and it not about him as a player . I love him , but at 6 million he doesn't fit as a 3rd line C . He isn't good enough to carry his own line . We need to move Draisaitl to 2nd C

Let me say this . It is the team first with me . Our failed rebuild had too many passengers . As I said love many of the players but what they were being paid and what they brought wasn't good value . Larsson on the other hand is worth more then his contract

Agree. There were few Hall haters or detractors that got blasted by the mob here a little over a year ago. My how things have turned 180. I also was not a fan of Hall since his first/second year. I could see early on he was very overrated as a talent. Then I began to very much dislike him when I hear from my sources about his antics as a crappy teammate. Didn't take a genius to see he was actually hurting the team despite his point production. His absence here may have equally as much, if not more, to do with the Oilers dramatic rise in the standings this year than the emergence of Connor and Drai. To me it doesn't matter what we got for Hall... the team would have been better regardless... addition by subtraction... though we were lucky to get a good dman in Larsson. Good luck to the Devils when they try to oust Hall in a year or two...
O and Kessel is a greater hockey talent than Hall.... and Kessel has shown he is better as a complimentary player than driver. Hall is not a true driver like people think he is.... and if he is driving a line on your team, well your team likely sucks.
 

rosemount289

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Feb 12, 2008
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I agree but..............???

I wasn't happy with the trade at the time, but pleased with it now. Value wise, I still don't necessarily call it a win. Larsson fills a huge need for us, but he's not as dynamic as Hall can be. Hall had a bit of a down year in NJ, will be interesting to see how he does this next season.

I agree but the WHAT IF scenario ...........would it CHANGE if the Oiler's had a lousy last season and did not make the playoffs?
 

shoop

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Jul 6, 2008
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I agree but the WHAT IF scenario ...........would it CHANGE if the Oiler's had a lousy last season and did not make the playoffs?

I never get these 'value wise' arguments.

Hockey is a team game. How do you win a trade, but lose the value wise part of the trade? If it's a win for the team that's the key in my books.
 

StupidGenius

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Apr 1, 2013
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I never get these 'value wise' arguments.

Hockey is a team game. How do you win a trade, but lose the value wise part of the trade? If it's a win for the team that's the key in my books.

Here's an analogy I once used: I'm making tacos for supper, and I have some beef, tomatoes, brie cheese and kale. You see me lay out these ingredients, and offer to trade me some shredded cheddar for my brie, and some iceburg lettuce for my kale.

I can make tacos with my four ingredients. I can make better tacos if I trade two of mine for two of yours. But brie and kale are more expensive than cheddar and lettuce. I am losing value on that trade, but my end product is much better for it.
 

Hemsky is a gangsta

Hemsky is a gangsta
Jun 23, 2004
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Didn't really like this trade at the time but also didn't hate it as much as some people.

At the time I was all for the rumor of Drai/Nurse/4th for Subban and vehemently opposed to RNH for Dumba. Given the opportunity to go back in time I think I would do either of those trades over Hall for Larsson.
 

SPIRIT

Registered User
Mar 12, 2014
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Here's an analogy I once used: I'm making tacos for supper, and I have some beef, tomatoes, brie cheese and kale. You see me lay out these ingredients, and offer to trade me some shredded cheddar for my brie, and some iceburg lettuce for my kale.

I can make tacos with my four ingredients. I can make better tacos if I trade two of mine for two of yours. But brie and kale are more expensive than cheddar and lettuce. I am losing value on that trade, but my end product is much better for it.

Nice analogy!... And now I want lunch.

Larsson has quickly become one of my favourite players. Dynamic offence generates the fans, the flash, and the cash. I think people over-value players like Hall because they lack a bigger picture view of the game. The full 200-ft structure, the time between games, the locker room, the practice; players are evaluated on all of these factors, especially when it comes to pro scouting.

Having a guy who can make consistent plays with the puck, shut down top opposition and be a nasty, stoic work-horse for 20+ minutes a night is a beautiful thing we're lucky to have. Plus, he still might have some untapped offence. Dude is only 24; during playoffs, he showed confidence and composure skating the puck into the attack. Love it. How anyone can have a definitive opinion on this trade today is confusing for me. Give it time. Lots of puck left out of both these meat-balls.
 

redgrant

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Nov 2, 2013
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I would take Hall on the team over any forward not named MacDavid and Draisaitl. He was really good for a few seasons, the only true star player in that eiition of the Oilers.

Problem is it was an either or with Larsson.

I'd take Larsson over any forward not named McDavid or Draisaitl as well.
 

Sup

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Oct 13, 2016
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As somebody who was and still is Anti-Hall since 2011, this is so easy. I wouldn't take Hall on this team for free. It is truly unbelievable what a locker room culture can do for a team. You'll never hear about locker room culture, you won't see data or statistics measure character or team culture, but god damn it can you feel it when there is a cancer in a dressing room.

Firstly, Hall was not a good teammate or player, if he was he would have been named Captain when this team had no semblance of skill or veteran leadership. (Horcoff/Ference over Hall?).

Second, in terms of point production, I feel his best seasons are behind him. He put up his highest point total when he completely neglected defence and the result was multiple basement finishes. It's why he does not get considered for team canada or world championship rosters.

His play style is not cerebral at all, he couldn't produce on powerplays and was very sloppy with the puck. He also couldn't produce with the best player on the planet because he lacks creativity and prefers to drive the puck 1 vs 3 and result in turnovers.

He was whiny, injury prone, and someone i personally didn't feel comfortable mentoring Connor McDavid. The fact that he was roommates with him and traded the season after shows that 97 must have had some input in the transaction and I feel we came out of this deal as Bandits fwiw.

The best part of it all: addition by subtraction resulted in an incredible dman named Adam larsson dawning Oiler silks. Tough, steady, agressive, a damn class act the times i've seen him in public... it truly is a culture change. When I'd see Hall in public I felt like he would spit in your face if he had the chance - he was disrespectful, distasteful, and a HORRIBLE representative as the star of our team.

I can't express how much I enjoy this trade. I would do it 100 times over.
 

rickysusedsht

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Feb 25, 2015
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love the trade then and now. i was shocked but still happy.if it didnt happen then it would be now with the new contracts rolling out.hall gone ebs gone im sure nuge wont be far off.cant afford those players any longer with the new sheriff in town... Mcd
 

harpoon

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Dec 23, 2005
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OP should have included a clause in the poll for posters to identify themselves as 'still hating and casting aspersions' one year later. What's extremely amusing is when bitter know nothings like that call other posters 'fanboys'. :biglaugh:

For the record I was vehemently against the trade the day it happened. It still isn't a trade *I* would make if I was GM, but everyone can see that Larsson is the more needed piece in Edmonton. I thought he had a hell of a season for the Oilers. And he's cheap.
 

MoneyGuy

Wandering
Oct 19, 2009
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I don't get the arguments about losing a trade but it made us better. If it made us better then we didn't lose. Some of you must not understand the purpose of trades.
 

McShogun99

Registered User
Aug 30, 2009
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When this trade was made I hated it so much but by the quarter mark of the season I completely forgot about Hall. At the time NJD should have added to the trade but looking at it now we should have added to get Larsson. He's a legit, stud, top pairing D. If we gave him more offensive zone starts and PP time I bet he would get 40 points but his strength is his defensive play.
 

grego

Registered User
Jan 12, 2005
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I would have made the trade at the time to get larsson and I love hall as a player.

But I measure it on a scale of having Gretzky traded losing hall was about a three out of ten on that scale.
 

Speed220DChalavan

Registered User
Mar 29, 2014
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Larsson is a good player. Maybe even a top pairing one day that can carry his own pairing.

That doesn't mean he was worth Hall. It was an overpay - Chiarelli even admitted such.

''The price you have to pay'' is pure nonsense.

Just look at what Calgary, Buffalo, and Dallas paid for acquiring Hamilton, Hamonic, Scandella, Methot.

Equivalent would be Calgary giving up Gaudreau for Larsson.

Chiarelli gets bent over in negotiations perpetually and lacks creativity.

Looking back, Chiarelli should have given up Nurse in return for Hamilton. Many, including myself argued as much.

It all stems from the lack of talent evaluation and market management. Today is another prime example - Stone signs for 1 less year and 0.5M less than Russell.
 
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