Once again GM's, demanding fans and media prove why CAP was necessary!

[grapeshine]

C'mon guys, the leagues been back less than a month and you're already certain that the new system doesn't work? Everybody is still in the middle of figuring out how things work now. I'm sure different GMs have different ideas about how to work the salary cap. As fans, we don't know how this will all play out either. All this *****ing is ridiculously premature.

 

[garry1221]

C'mon guys, the leagues been back less than a month and you're already certain that the new system doesn't work? Everybody is still in the middle of figuring out how things work now. I'm sure different GMs have different ideas about how to work the salary cap. As fans, we don't know how this will all play out either. All this *****ing is ridiculously premature.

i'd say a good point is made here. everyone's still testing out the new landscape, seeing what can be done. i'll admit as some have said, some deals have been plain crazy and stupid, but i'll give it a year or two before passing complete judgement (whether it be the same as before, or that the gm's really ARE that stupid) next year gm's should have a better grasp on what they really can afford and what they can't, which will have the intended effect on salaries. while the players are still guaranteed alot with 85% of their salaries, even i'll admit gm's should be smart enough to sign players within reason so they receive the full salary, and not have 15% go back to the owners.

 

[eye]

C'mon guys, the leagues been back less than a month and you're already certain that the new system doesn't work? Everybody is still in the middle of figuring out how things work now. I'm sure different GMs have different ideas about how to work the salary cap. As fans, we don't know how this will all play out either. All this *****ing is ridiculously premature.

I never started this thread to bash the CBA. All I said was that GM's and demanding fans and media types are proving why the NHL and the owners needed this CBA. It's working. Some teams are upping their payroll using the CAP as a magnet while others are forced to lose their players while getting under it. The CBA is protecting the owners from their foolish and overly competitive GM's stupid decisions. Have you listened to the Toronto fans on Leafs tv or Sportsnet Primetime? Demanding is the word and another example of how this CBA is protecting the league from teams like Toronto who normally would drive the price up due to their GM and owner having to please their radical fans. Now he can use the CAP as a reason for fiscal sanity which will help to keep ticket costs and player costs down.

I have no problem with the Forsbergs and Iginla's of the NHL making top dollar but some of these GM's should be fired for some of this weeks rediculous signings.

 

[Cawz]

I agree that is is dumb that they should be punished, but ( and its a big but , big as my ex wife''s butt) it is the way it works..do something stupid and you pay.

Well, then the poster we are referring to should prefer the new system. It really financially punishes bad management. You sign a bad expensive player and it affects the team you can ice.

In the old system, if you signed a bad expensive player, some teams could attempt to buy their way out of the problem, which affects the whole league. In this new system you cant, so your team suffers, your fans leave, your revenues decrease... and other teams arent affected nearly to the same degree as the old system.

 

[Brent Burns Beard]

Well, then the poster we are referring to should prefer the new system. It really financially punishes bad management. You sign a bad expensive player and it affects the team you can ice.

In the old system, if you signed a bad expensive player, some teams could attempt to buy their way out of the problem, which affects the whole league. In this new system you cant, so your team suffers, your fans leave, your revenues decrease... and other teams arent affected nearly to the same degree as the old system.

i disagree that the old system prevented you from ditching contracts you couldnt afford. quite the contrary, its this new system that will prevent you from shedding bad contracts.

the old system allowed CGY to turn expensive vets like Fleury and Neiuwendyk into Regehr and Iginla. This new system they would have not been able to trade them (cap room on the other team) and would have just lost them to free agency (assuming they didnt want to play in Calgary).

dr

 

[Crazy_Ike]

The old system would have allowed Toronto or NYR to gurgle 10-12 million yearly salaries in the general direction of Pronger or Iginla, if not more. End result - those players are not on Edmonton and Calgary today.

New CBA doing great things already.

Some signings have been questionable. But if they really are bad, the team pays for it on the ice. Even if that happens, the league's financial state doesn't change. 54%, no matter how many stupid contracts get handed out. Teams who are under pressure to spend as much as possible every year like Toronto can't skew the league any more.

New CBA is obviously doing great things for the future as well.

The complaints in this thread are laughable and ignorant.

 

[Cawz]

i disagree that the old system prevented you from ditching contracts you couldnt afford. quite the contrary, its this new system that will prevent you from shedding bad contracts.

So you must like the new system then, since you like punishing mismanagement. This causes gms to live with their mistakes, rather then try to buy their way out of it, whilest pulling the rest of the league down with them.

the old system allowed CGY to turn expensive vets like Fleury and Neiuwendyk into Regehr and Iginla. This new system they would have not been able to trade them (cap room on the other team) and would have just lost them to free agency (assuming they didnt want to play in Calgary).

dr

But werent people like you saying that Iginla would be gone with the new CBA? Werent doomsayer like you spouting off that there was no way Iggy would be able to stay in Calgary? I should go back to some of those old threads and call some people on the **** they were saying.

Under the old system, he'd probably be gone already like the other expensive vets. But hey, the return they would get would probably be a superstar in 7 years or so, right?

 

[AM]

from my perspective....

C'mon guys, the leagues been back less than a month and you're already certain that the new system doesn't work? Everybody is still in the middle of figuring out how things work now. I'm sure different GMs have different ideas about how to work the salary cap. As fans, we don't know how this will all play out either. All this *****ing is ridiculously premature.

its looking really good so far.

 

[AM]

yah

So you must like the new system then, since you like punishing mismanagement. This causes gms to live with their mistakes, rather then try to buy their way out of it, whilest pulling the rest of the league down with them.


But werent people like you saying that Iginla would be gone with the new CBA? Werent doomsayer like you spouting off that there was no way Iggy would be able to stay in Calgary? I should go back to some of those old threads and call some people on the **** they were saying.

Under the old system, he'd probably be gone already like the other expensive vets. But hey, the return they would get would probably be a superstar in 7 years or so, right?

funny how its playing out

 

[iagreewithidiots]

I want to give congrats to DR and the Flames.

Must feel good for you to have been so wrong about the cap. Wow Iginla and Amonte. Good time to be a flames fan thanks to the cap.

 

[Brent Burns Beard]

So you must like the new system then, since you like punishing mismanagement. This causes gms to live with their mistakes, rather then try to buy their way out of it, whilest pulling the rest of the league down with them.


But werent people like you saying that Iginla would be gone with the new CBA? Werent doomsayer like you spouting off that there was no way Iggy would be able to stay in Calgary? I should go back to some of those old threads and call some people on the **** they were saying.

Under the old system, he'd probably be gone already like the other expensive vets. But hey, the return they would get would probably be a superstar in 7 years or so, right?

yup, hand in the air .. i was the one who said CGY would be hurt, specifically by losing Iginla.

i was wrong.

dr

 

[reckoning]

Gary Bettman is being proven right again (Goodenow wrong) as the salary cap is acting like a magnet to most clubs in the league.

Could you please tell me how many teams have reached the $39M threshold? If it`s the magnet people claim it is; then most of the teams would be there; but if you actually look at the payrolls you`d be surprised. For every tream signing players to contracts they`re not worth, there`s teams like New Jersey, Ottawa, Buffalo and Minnesota focusing on player development and trying to keep their existing talent. It`s the difference between being a lousy GM and a good one.

Demanding fans and media are no excuse for making stupid decisions. It`s the same thing every year at the trading deadline; no matter how good the team is there`s always tons of pressure to add "the missing ingredient" just for the sake of making a trade. Usually every year the Cup winner is a team that stuck with their roster.

You know the old saying: when a GM starts letting the fans make his decisions, he`ll end up sitting with them. As for the media, who cares what those idiots think?

 

[jacketracket*]

i was wrong.

dr

This will be my new signature!

 

[Cawz]

yup, hand in the air .. i was the one who said CGY would be hurt, specifically by losing Iginla.

i was wrong.

dr

Well thats mighty big of you.

Some of these signings may very well come back and bite the respective teams in the ass. We'll never know till it happens. But these teams wont have anything else to blame now, except for themselves. Thats the way it should be.

Some teams will still suck, but it will be becasue of bad management, bad luck or bad timing. Not becasue of money (well, not as much because of money...)

 

[Poignant Discussion*]

"Demanding is the word and another example of how this CBA is protecting the league from teams like Toronto who normally would drive the price up due to their GM and owner having to please their radical fans. Now he can use the CAP as a reason for fiscal sanity which will help to keep ticket costs and player costs down"

Who has Toronto signed that ever raised the bar for free agents?

How many times did Toronto go over 70 million in salaries or were in the top 5 for salaries?

How many times has Toronto went to the league for some sort of help?

How many times has Toronto lost money?

Do you really think the CBA is going to lower ticket prices in markets where the team sell out night after night (and I'm not talking about the little 5% thing they are doing this year).

No NOW we have the little markets overpspending KNOWING the big markets will be there to save their butts at the end of the season. Personally I would like to see any team that spends more than 80% of the hard cap not get one cent in revenue sharing. Then again the NHL has turned into a welfare league with questionable markets all over the USA and Canada

 

[quat]

you know what AM, i have a very good understanding of the CBA, as far as us laymen go. it just happens to be a little different than your take. thank you very much, thats what makes these discussions interesting.

anyhow, i happen to have liked the system that applied financial punishment to teams that mismanaged their finances.

dr

Personally, I like that the team will now just suck, and their overpaying players doesn't kill other teams in the leagues chances at signing decent players.

 

[quat]

Could you please tell me how many teams have reached the $39M threshold? If it`s the magnet people claim it is; then most of the teams would be there; but if you actually look at the payrolls you`d be surprised. For every tream signing players to contracts they`re not worth, there`s teams like New Jersey, Ottawa, Buffalo and Minnesota focusing on player development and trying to keep their existing talent. It`s the difference between being a lousy GM and a good one.

Demanding fans and media are no excuse for making stupid decisions. It`s the same thing every year at the trading deadline; no matter how good the team is there`s always tons of pressure to add "the missing ingredient" just for the sake of making a trade. Usually every year the Cup winner is a team that stuck with their roster.

You know the old saying: when a GM starts letting the fans make his decisions, he`ll end up sitting with them. As for the media, who cares what those idiots think?

Jersey and Ottawa will have high payrolls. So that leaves two teams in the whole league that isn't using the cap as a level to guage their spending.

Dude, face it. You are wrong about the cap not acting like a magnet. It's just a metaphor after all... so use something else if you'd rather, but it's not going to change how teams are spending money.

 

[quat]

The old system would have allowed Toronto or NYR to gurgle 10-12 million yearly salaries in the general direction of Pronger or Iginla, if not more. End result - those players are not on Edmonton and Calgary today.

New CBA doing great things already.

Some signings have been questionable. But if they really are bad, the team pays for it on the ice. Even if that happens, the league's financial state doesn't change. 54%, no matter how many stupid contracts get handed out. Teams who are under pressure to spend as much as possible every year like Toronto can't skew the league any more.

New CBA is obviously doing great things for the future as well.

The complaints in this thread are laughable and ignorant.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Could you please tell me how many teams have reached the $39M threshold? If it`s the magnet people claim it is; then most of the teams would be there; but if you actually look at the payrolls you`d be surprised. For every tream signing players to contracts they`re not worth, there`s teams like New Jersey, Ottawa, Buffalo and Minnesota focusing on player development and trying to keep their existing talent. It`s the difference between being a lousy GM and a good one.

Demanding fans and media are no excuse for making stupid decisions. It`s the same thing every year at the trading deadline; no matter how good the team is there`s always tons of pressure to add "the missing ingredient" just for the sake of making a trade. Usually every year the Cup winner is a team that stuck with their roster.

You know the old saying: when a GM starts letting the fans make his decisions, he`ll end up sitting with them. As for the media, who cares what those idiots think?

Just a note, far more teams are spending closer to the Cap than I would have guessed, and far fewer will be near the floor. You likely will be able to count on one hand the number of teams that will have a sub-$30 million payroll and how many here ever would have predicted that before this week started? I certainly would not have.

 

[kdb209]

Just a note, far more teams are spending closer to the Cap than I would have guessed, and far fewer will be near the floor. You likely will be able to count on one hand the number of teams that will have a sub-$30 million payroll and how many here ever would have predicted that before this week started? I certainly would not have.

Of course, all this means is that the teams will be getting hefty rebate checks back from the escrow accounts at the end of the year.

The team cap of $39M is not the important number. The 54% league wide cap is the real salary drag. Based on the estimated $1.7B in revenues and ~$2.2M in benefits per team (included in the 54% for total player costs), the average team payroll can only be $28.4M before the players start giving money back.

All these "big" signings don't really mean much in the big picture. It's a zero-sum game. The players on the whole get there 54%, no more, no less. Big dollars to some players just means less dollars to others. Big dollars to many players just means every player loses money from escrow.

 

[SJeasy]

kdb,

As you read the CBA info on the escrow is the payback by team or leaguewide? In other words, if a team makes a stupid signing, does it make that player's teammates alone suffer? Or is it just leaguewide so that the players on a team with responsible contracts suffer for the mistakes of others?

 

[kdb209]

kdb,

As you read the CBA info on the escrow is the payback by team or leaguewide? In other words, if a team makes a stupid signing, does it make that player's teammates alone suffer? Or is it just leaguewide so that the players on a team with responsible contracts suffer for the mistakes of others?

League wide.

That was how it was in the league's Feb 2 proposal, and I haven't seen anything to contradict that for the final CBA agreement.

In fact, league wide is the only way you can deal with it since it is based on league wide revenues. How can you penalize just the players on any one (or more) team when that team's payroll was under the legal cap - it was just that too many teams had payrolls above the midpoint of the salary range.

 

[handtrick]

The problem with the bidding wars is now the higher level players are demanding more years since the amount of money is somewhat contained by the cap. The GM's are getting the pressure to sign these ludicrious contracts in fear of "losing out" of the free agent buffet.

Don't get me wrong some of the signing's dollar amounts have been absurd, but the more problematic and frankly the more disturbing thing to me is the number of three, four and even five freaking years these 30+ guys are getting on these guaranteed contracts.

Any drop in revenues and subsequent drop in cap level will kill some of these franchises as to the product they can put on the ice and cause a number of GM's heads to roll. The only thing that will save them is the hope that revenues increase at a faster rate than most expect, and the cap rises.

What is exciting to many, is the parity [on paper so far], that all this seems to be creating...we will see if it translates to on the ice....

 

[SJeasy]

League wide.

That was how it was in the league's Feb 2 proposal, and I haven't seen anything to contradict that for the final CBA agreement.

Thank you.