Friedman: On Evander Kane's Future

Rasmus CacOlainen

The end of the Tank
Sep 24, 2015
7,226
1,137
Europe
It's a quality offer. If I was Army I wouldn't trade Kyrou, we need his dynamic skill and speed, but value wise, it's definitely in the ballpark.
Well you can't get the best rental on the market without giving up anything..STL are quite good without either of these 2 prospects for years going forward and you still have some good prospects left... Kyrou reminds me a bit of Guentzel so Botts will probably would like him quite a bit.
 

Beerz

Registered User
Jun 28, 2011
34,858
10,356
People lose jobs over it frequently, perhaps you should take it a bit more seriously.

I understand the desire to defend your player, but I will maintain Kane is not a player I would root for outside of his KO of Cooke.

That's fine. I don't particularly like Kane the person of what little I know .. but I do like Kane the player and that's mostly what I care about. To each their own
 

Beerz

Registered User
Jun 28, 2011
34,858
10,356
Well someone from the Buffalo side said Kane for Schwartz (won't even discuss how preposterous and uninformed that suggestion was) and then we've seen Dunn/Walman + Kyrou/Thompson or the even more laughable Thomas + Fabbri. Blues fans can't really overrate the prospects being discussed in this thread because Buffalo fans seem to think they're going to snatch someone off the current roster. The trade with Schwartz included had to have been a really bad joke, the Thomas and Fabbri proposal is light years away from being remotely palatable for the Blues and anyone that thinks they'd be able to land Dunn for a rental is extremely misguided, not to mention there was an add of a top 5 organizational prospect on top of Dunn.

Honestly, the only realistic proposal that's been thrown out is Kyrou and Noel for Kane. I think the Blues would need to add a pick on top of that for Buffalo to consider it but at least its a start that could have some legs for discussion. This pretty much boils down to Buffalo fans wanting to take advantage of having a great rental player that isn't in their future plans and Blues fans not wanting anything to do with said rental no matter the price, especially the crap that's been thrown out thus far.


Kane for Schwartz isn't realistic but I think the poster realizes that and is just hoping a desperate Army shooting for the Cup and knowing ...yeah ..nevermind it can't be justified.

All the other ones I think are realistic because there are no guarantees with those prospects.

Doesn't mean it happens but Kane is a high end rental and he will command a very lofty return...
 

bleedblue1223

Registered User
Jan 21, 2011
51,765
14,675
Kane for Schwartz isn't realistic but I think the poster realizes that and is just hoping a desperate Army shooting for the Cup and knowing ...yeah ..nevermind it can't be justified.

All the other ones I think are realistic because there are no guarantees with those prospects.

Doesn't mean it happens but Kane is a high end rental and he will command a very lofty return...
Find a rental comparable to Kane that returned those prices.
 

Vincenzo Arelliti

He Can't Play Center
Oct 13, 2014
9,363
3,854
Lisle, IL
Please, please no. I’d rather miss the playoffs than have Kane on the Blues - especially at the price of some of our best prospects. For the pieces linked to Kane, there have to be other players in the league available for that - maybe even better players.
 

Beerz

Registered User
Jun 28, 2011
34,858
10,356
Find a rental comparable to Kane that returned those prices.

How do you compare prospects? Especially when ones in the past probably flamed out and are seen differently in the eyes of observers now? Ladd and Hanzel just returned a lofty package and Kane is better than both.
 

bleedblue1223

Registered User
Jan 21, 2011
51,765
14,675
How do you compare prospects? Especially when ones in the past probably flamed out and are seen differently in the eyes of observers now? Ladd and Hanzel just returned a lofty package and Kane is better than both.

Based on their standing at that point in time.

Neither of those included a high end prospect, unless you think Dano was, but he looked like a bust.

Kane is probably most similar to Ladd.
 

Shwabeal

Registered User
Feb 24, 2016
785
400
Kane for Schwartz isn't realistic but I think the poster realizes that and is just hoping a desperate Army shooting for the Cup and knowing ...yeah ..nevermind it can't be justified.

All the other ones I think are realistic because there are no guarantees with those prospects.

Doesn't mean it happens but Kane is a high end rental and he will command a very lofty return...


I completely agree he's going to get a good return but it will be a good return for a rental. But Dunn is a rookie, offensive-minded defenseman (already borderline top 4) that has excellent puck moving ability, not to mention that he is playing 16:30+ minutes a night and often taking shifts with Pietrangelo depending on game flow. On top of that, you think they could fetch another top 5 organizational prospect that's arguably the best OHL player (Kyrou) or someone that is having a solid first year in professional hockey and already been up to the NHL for a stint (Thompson)? To get both those guys for Kane, the Blues would need to have a hole at LW (they don't) and Kane would need to have another two years left on his contract (he doesn't).
 

Beerz

Registered User
Jun 28, 2011
34,858
10,356
Neither of those included a high end prospect, unless you think Dano was, but he looked like a bust.

Maybe we have different definition of high end prospect but I don't see any blue chippers being asked for. I see good quality prospects being asked for
 

Beerz

Registered User
Jun 28, 2011
34,858
10,356
I completely agree he's going to get a good return but it will be a good return for a rental. But Dunn is a rookie, offensive-minded defenseman (already borderline top 4) that has excellent puck moving ability, not to mention that he is playing 16:30+ minutes a night and often taking shifts with Pietrangelo depending on game flow. On top of that, you think they could fetch another top 5 organizational prospect that's arguably the best OHL player (Kyrou) or someone that is having a solid first year in professional hockey and already been up to the NHL for a stint (Thompson)? To get both those guys for Kane, the Blues would need to have a hole at LW (they don't) and Kane would need to have another two years left on his contract (he doesn't).

I believe the proposal you're referencing the poster alluded to Buffalo adding on to Kane.
 

Colt55

Registered User
Sep 28, 2017
6,786
1,437
st. Louis
Colt55 has better sources than Bobby Mac, come one...
Its called common sense. How many of these rumors actually come to fruition. Usually what happens is they take a team with injuries and a team out of playoff spot and make up a rumors.
 

Shootica

Registered User
Jan 17, 2013
681
421
Utica, NY
How do you compare prospects? Especially when ones in the past probably flamed out and are seen differently in the eyes of observers now? Ladd and Hanzel just returned a lofty package and Kane is better than both.


You've got to put a draft pick price tag on these prospects. Figure out if Dunn, Walman, Thompson, etc. are worth a mid first, late first, second, or whatever and then you can start to compare them to previous trades. Draft picks are currency, and don't carry the emotional attachment that prospects have.
 

gordie

5x
Jul 9, 2002
5,201
74
hfboards.com
You would think by now that Kane's value as a player would have diminished pretty substantially. Wherever he goes the team falls apart and he is never praised for contributions on the ice or in the room.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Colt55

Beerz

Registered User
Jun 28, 2011
34,858
10,356
Its called common sense. How many of these rumors actually come to fruition. Usually what happens is they take a team with injuries and a team out of playoff spot and make up a rumors.


The rumor is that the Blues and a couple other teams are interested in Kane ..if a trade doesn't happen between the teams it doesn't mean the rumor isn' true..its just that a deal couldn't be worked out or someone was outbid by another.
 

bleedblue1223

Registered User
Jan 21, 2011
51,765
14,675
You've got to put a draft pick price tag on these prospects. Figure out if Dunn, Walman, Thompson, etc. are worth a mid first, late first, second, or whatever and then you can start to compare them to previous trades.

Established prospects carry more value in trades though, it's why you don't find any comps to what you are proposing.
 

Colt55

Registered User
Sep 28, 2017
6,786
1,437
st. Louis
Kyrou is a nice player, but I don't want him to be the headline piece in a deal with STL. I'd much prefer a deal around Dunn or Walman, plus a player like Kyrou - even if that requires Buffalo to add something.
Dunn is worth more than Kane try again
 

Shwabeal

Registered User
Feb 24, 2016
785
400
I believe the proposal you're referencing the poster alluded to Buffalo adding on to Kane.

He said "even if it requires Buffalo to add something" so you're correct but even suggesting that there's a possibility they might not have to add makes it a ridiculous proposal. Dunn + Kyrou is worth quite a bit more than rental Kane + whatever Buffalo would add outside of Eichel, Reinhart, ROR, Risto, etc.

And I'm not suggesting that Buffalo would add any of those guys to that because that would be stupid but the gap between those guys and any other player/asset from Buffalo is too great to add to rental Kane and bridge the value gap to Dunn and Kyrou.
 

is the answer jesus

Registered User
Mar 10, 2008
6,587
3,097
Tonawanda, NY
Based on their standing at that point in time.

Neither of those included a high end prospect, unless you think Dano was, but he looked like a bust.

Kane is probably most similar to Ladd.
I think refering to Dano as a bust is more hindsight than a proper evaluation of how he was viewed at the time of the trade. He was a good not great prospect just breaking into the NHL and wasn't far removed from being a 1st round pick. I think several of the names bandied about on St Louis end are fairly comparable, albeit not as far along in their development, just my 2 cents. Doesnt mean St Louis would or should trade those guys for Kane.
 

Beerz

Registered User
Jun 28, 2011
34,858
10,356
He said "even if it requires Buffalo to add something" so you're correct but even suggesting that there's a possibility they might not have to add makes it a ridiculous proposal. Dunn + Kyrou is worth quite a bit more than rental Kane + whatever Buffalo would add outside of Eichel, Reinhart, ROR, Risto, etc.

And I'm not suggesting that Buffalo would add any of those guys to that because that would be stupid but the gap between those guys and any other player/asset from Buffalo is too great to add to rental Kane and bridge the value gap to Dunn and Kyrou.


Meh.. Maybe. In any event .. My expectations are a 1st decent prospect and maybe a conditional pick with Kane re-signing.
 

Shootica

Registered User
Jan 17, 2013
681
421
Utica, NY
Established prospects carry more value in trades though, it's why you don't find any comps to what you are proposing.

I'm not saying to go back in time to when they were drafted. I'm saying that you have to ask yourself what they are worth today. Would you trade Dunn for say the 20th overall pick this year? If not, how about the 15th pick, 10th pick, so on and so forth. It's not perfect because some teams need the developed prospect to fit their window, but it's a good start.
 

bleedblue1223

Registered User
Jan 21, 2011
51,765
14,675
I'm not saying to go back in time to when they were drafted. I'm saying that you have to ask yourself what they are worth today. Would you trade Dunn for say the 20th overall pick this year? If not, how about the 15th pick, 10th pick, so on and so forth. It's not perfect because some teams need the developed prospect to fit their window, but it's a good start.
That has nothing to do with what I said. Find one comp with a rental like Kane, where they returned a package like Buffalo fans are requesting here. Rentals like Kane don't return multiple top prospects, they never have and never will. Seriously, find a comp that matches the ask, then we can talk.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->