Olympic Myth

Discussion in 'International Tournaments' started by joshjull, Feb 13, 2006.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. joshjull

    joshjull Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2005
    Messages:
    50,597
    Likes Received:
    2,382
    Trophy Points:
    186
    Location:
    Hamburg,NY
    There is a false assumption among many posters that the NHL should participate in the olympics to grow the NHL. With many fans getting angry with various players and teams because certain players have chosen not to participate or can't due to injuries. I think its terrible that some players who are injured have to choose between country and employer. The NHL should drop Olympic participation after this year. Where is the proof the Olympic participation grows the NHL. The only place the North American market can grow is in the US. The NHL has been in 3 olympics now. Yet the TV ratings in the States in the last 10 years have plummeted and the NHL's growth is stagnant. You remember the lockout don't you. If your worried about growth in Europe. Most Europeans follow many of the international tournaments. They sure follow them more than most North Americans.
    I think the World Cup would be a better venue to determine the best hockey nation in the world. It would be a great showcase for Europe. It would allow more participation by NHLers. You won't have the conflicts and most likely have less injuries pre tourny.
     
  2. jekoh

    jekoh Registered User

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2004
    Messages:
    4,446
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The NHL should stop one week earlier, like the other leagues do, and have a 72-game season, or an even shorter one.

    And remember, there were a lot of players pulling out of the WCup, too.
     
  3. nashnaidoo

    nashnaidoo Registered User

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2004
    Messages:
    434
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    64
    If the NHL shortens its' season who is going to pay the bills for player salaries, advertising, broadcasting, arena fees etc?

    Based on the premise of a 72 game season, 10 games are lost. Do the players take a 12% pay cut since the owners are losing the revenues from 12% of their games?

    Do the owners refund 12% to long term advertisers and broadcasters?

    Perhaps you would like the ticket prices to go up 12% during the Olympic year to compensate the owners for lost revenues due to your shortened season?
     
  4. Padawan

    Padawan Former power tripper

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2002
    Messages:
    2,613
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    Sales person
    Location:
    Jyvaskyla, Finland
    Home Page:
    I think the best solution here if the NHL continues to take a break during winter olympics is to start the season one week earlier and to finish the season a week later. I don't think that this would be too hard to do or too expensive to do. If they would do this then the olympic break wouldn't affect the season that much.

    One have to remember that olympic gold medal is one of the highest achievement a player can achieve. Most europeans players value it higher than the Stanley Cup. In addition, the olympic games get huge ratings around the world and this is only a benefit to the sport itself.
     
  5. shawn_kemp*

    shawn_kemp* Guest

    There is a false assumption among many posters who think that the US is the only country in the world.
     
  6. joshjull

    joshjull Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2005
    Messages:
    50,597
    Likes Received:
    2,382
    Trophy Points:
    186
    Location:
    Hamburg,NY
    Spare the easy US bashing, think a little. The growth of the NHL in terms of increased revenue is in the US. Sorry if that bothers you. On another thread a posters told me that the Eurpoean TV rights were sold for 10m US. That in the contexts of sports revenue is peanuts. The sabres, my team, alone get almost that much themselves from MSG for TV broadcasts. The sabres TV revenue is near the bottonm. The Euro Tv money would be split 30 ways, 333,333 per team. That isn't even the leagues minimum salary.

    I am not trying to disrespect European hockey fans but the NHL needs to greatly increase its revenue in America if it hopes to succeed. The NHL needs to grow its own markets first some of which are struggling. The Olympic participation has done zero to grow the US interest in the NHL.
     
  7. Injektilo

    Injektilo Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2005
    Messages:
    2,516
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    Future Team Guatemala hea
    Location:
    Taiwan

    Why should I care about the NHL's revenues? What does that do for me?


    With NHLers in the Olympics, I get a kickass international tournament with global bragging rights on the line. I don't give a **** about the NHL's revenue woes.
     
  8. LannysStach

    LannysStach Thou shall

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2004
    Messages:
    2,524
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    NYC & Toronto
    the guys who count the beans (owners) have been thru 2 "pro" Olympics before.

    their "business" was making zero revenue for a year. A new CBA was negotiated. did the owners say, "No way, i lose money on the Olympics. We just sat out for a year. I'm not doing anything else that costs me money."

    no, they didn't. the bean counting bottom-liners concluded it was good for their business, that's why it's in the deal. and it's not a purely speculative stock -- they've all seen the numbers pre and post '98, and pre and post 02. they would have to have concluded from past experience there was a net + to involvement -- as they are assuming there will be this time as well.
     
  9. joshjull

    joshjull Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2005
    Messages:
    50,597
    Likes Received:
    2,382
    Trophy Points:
    186
    Location:
    Hamburg,NY
    You obviously didn't understand the thread. the argument used by some to shut down the NHL for the Olympics is that it will grow the NHL and hockey.the NHL isnt doing it so there is a kickass international tournament. I think you summed up the real Euro opinion about this subject.
     
  10. joshjull

    joshjull Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2005
    Messages:
    50,597
    Likes Received:
    2,382
    Trophy Points:
    186
    Location:
    Hamburg,NY
    It was put in the deal as a concession to the players. since the owners hammered them on everything else. As for net good, I don't think so
     
  11. shawn_kemp*

    shawn_kemp* Guest

    You see, the problem is that you're looking at the Olympics from the NHL's point of view, and in that perspective the success of the Olympics should translate into a higher revenue, more profit. But hockey is not only about the money. And that's why every 4 years there should be an Olympic hockey tournament opposing the best players in the World, a tournament where money has zero influence on the results, where hockey is not just a business and where players can't be bought.
     
  12. RuuhkaTukka

    RuuhkaTukka Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2006
    Messages:
    162
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    74
    Olympic games draw huge amount of viewers in the US. It is possible to use olympics for marketing hockey. If I am not mistaken, problem with NHL is not that people find NHL to be bad. Problem is that people are not intrested in ice hockey. Olympics gives you a possibility to argue that hockey is the largest winter sport in the games.

    I agree. It is a discrace. One way to address this problem is to drop olympic participation. Other way is to have a longer olympic brake. One week longer brake every 4 years. That is not much.

    If you put an ad to TV and your sales plummet, do you a) argue that TV is to be blamed and decide never to have an TV ad or b) think that campain was not the right one and fire your marketing people? I´m trying to say that maby NHL´s problems are not due to olympics. Maby the problem is in NHL´s marketing department.

    World Cup has some problems. First, you can´t really predict when it is played. You know there is probaply a World Cup / Canada Cup taking place in the next ten years. Problem is that you don´t know when. Secondly it is a Canadian tournament that was created to determine which nation (Canada or USSR) has a better team. It doesn´t have the same kind of intrinsic value to the players that the olympics have. Thirdly it doesn´t put all the teams on the same starting line. Some European teams have to play in NA all of their games (round robin). Also the teams that make it to quarter finals from Europe have to travel to NA and play against a well rested team while still suffering of jet lag.
     
  13. Danny__K

    Danny__K Registered User

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2005
    Messages:
    3,339
    Likes Received:
    28
    Trophy Points:
    101
    Are you suggesting the NHL is not a success?? Or is success to you having successful franchises down in places where most people have never skated on ice in their life?

    The NHL is a 2+$ billion dollar a year industry and only a small handful of franchises are having financial difficulties in the new NHL. Hockey is the second largest sport on a global basis behind soccer. What part of this isn't success? The fact its not the biggest sport in the states?

    Olympics is about growing global fan bases not just TV revenues but merchandising as well. Why did Real buy Beckham, because the value of his name in merchandising was absolutely disgusting.

    Rather ironic the most "successful" sport in the world is behind even hockey in the states.
     
  14. Boltsfan2029

    Boltsfan2029 Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2002
    Messages:
    6,264
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    Paralegal
    Location:
    In deleted threads
    If memory serves, it was the NHLPA that insisted on participation in the Olympics, not the league, and that concession was part of the new CBA. I would imagine the league is stuck with allowing the players to go as long as this CBA is in effect.
     
  15. shawn_kemp*

    shawn_kemp* Guest

    Seriously, I'm tired of all those against having the world's best players at the Olympics.

    You will still get your 82 games, then playoffs.

    Of course, some players may get injured, but the risk is minimal.

    And please, stop saying that the World Cup should replace the Olympics. I know the Canadians and Americans would be happy about it, but that would be simply unsportsmanlike to all other countries.
     
  16. joshjull

    joshjull Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2005
    Messages:
    50,597
    Likes Received:
    2,382
    Trophy Points:
    186
    Location:
    Hamburg,NY
    Are you for real? The North Americans who don't want the players in the Olympics are the ones who indirectly pay for their salaries. Through season tix, luxury box rentals. the league revenues are very ticket based. Your notion that the Olympics aren't about money is the most ridiculous thing I have read on these boards recently. The Olypics are all about money.
     
  17. EliCash

    EliCash Registered User

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2005
    Messages:
    229
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Boston
    The best solution would be to have a regularly-scheduled World Cup every 4 summers and have a different host nation each time (just like the FIFA WC). The problem is, a strong organizational body like FIFA does not exist for hockey. So until that happens, the Olympics are the best place to have the ultimate international tournament.
     
  18. joshjull

    joshjull Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2005
    Messages:
    50,597
    Likes Received:
    2,382
    Trophy Points:
    186
    Location:
    Hamburg,NY
    The NHL was a 2+ billion industry before the lockout as well. Many teams were struggling then.The reason they are succeeding now is revenue sharing and the cap. Hard to believe they were struggling before since they had already been in two olympics :sarcasm: I love hockey it is my favorite sport but it isn't the second most popular in the world. http://www.johann-sandra.com/popular.htm Not even close. Most "successful" sport is soccer,it not being successful in US is relevant how?

    ps that hockey participation # refers to field hockey a well
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2006
  19. WalterSobchak

    WalterSobchak Blues Trololol

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2004
    Messages:
    11,652
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    124
    Occupation:
    Don't Judge Us
    Location:
    Where men chunder
    Home Page:
    The only real problem with the Winter Olympics and NHL players being involved in them is their placement.

    The World Cup works so well because it occurs in August/September. Well that and it caters to hockey alone.
     
  20. joshjull

    joshjull Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2005
    Messages:
    50,597
    Likes Received:
    2,382
    Trophy Points:
    186
    Location:
    Hamburg,NY
    I think you have a good solution. I think the various hockey fed could work things out.
     
  21. shawn_kemp*

    shawn_kemp* Guest

    you cannot have a legitimate hockey tournament during the summer, because that's what it is, the summer, a period of time when the players are obviously not in shape and are not skating regularly.
     
  22. grego

    grego Registered User

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2005
    Messages:
    2,321
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Saskatchewan

    From what I can see in that list. It is about user participation.

    That is how they get that number of people playing VBall is through counting every rec league they assume exists.

    I am sure to most people here when they talk about popularity of a sport they are talking about some organized form, either Junior, Semi Pro, College, Pro.
     
  23. shawn_kemp*

    shawn_kemp* Guest

    I've also played Volleyball! It kicks ***!
     
  24. Injektilo

    Injektilo Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2005
    Messages:
    2,516
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    Future Team Guatemala hea
    Location:
    Taiwan


    yeah, and I don't really care about whether or not the NHL grows in revenue. I'd rather see the sport of hockey grow around the world, and the Olympics are by far the best way to do that. I care about the sport of hockey, the NHL revenues, not so much.


    Besides, you need to show a little more conclusively that the participation in the olympics isn't helping the NHL. Simply the fact that television ratings in the US haven't gone up since they started participating doesn't mean much, there could be any number of factors.
    And to me, international hockey has gotten alot more popular in the last 10-15 years in Canada, and I think alot of that is people appreciating what the players are doing for their country, and an understanding that hockey is an important part of our culture, and that it's better reflected in international hockey than the NHL. I think participation by the NHL in the olypmics has been a good thing for hockey in Canada.
     
  25. joshjull

    joshjull Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2005
    Messages:
    50,597
    Likes Received:
    2,382
    Trophy Points:
    186
    Location:
    Hamburg,NY
    The TV revenue has gone down not just not gone up. The TV deal that the NHL has with NBC is the same as the deal arena football has.Tv deals are as good a measure as any of nationwide popularity. TV networks use the popularity of a sport to sell commercials etc. That is the only area in US hockey could grow revenue because hockey has always had good ticket sales leaguewide. Canada isn't an issue it is the only nation where hockey is the undisputed king. I love international hockey tournaments as well. I like to see a World Cup of hockey every 2 or 4 years, rotating the host nation(s). As for understanding hockey as a part of culture isn't the NHL's job nor is it the reason they are at the Olympics.
    After all my ranting I will still enjoy watcng the Olympic hockey.

    Ps. Since your Canadian, I must say my favorite international tournament was when the US beat Canada for the 96' world Cup of hockey. It was even sweeter becaues I was in Toronto during the final game. ;)
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

monitoring_string = "358c248ada348a047a4b9bb27a146148"