Prospect Info: Olli Juolevi, Pt. VII | "Not A Tkachuk Thread" Edition | WJC postmortem

[Baby Pettersson]

Let's get back on topic about discussing Juolevi. Thanks!

 

[turkulad]

I'm watching Juolevi play right now, wearing my Canucks jersey right now. Juolevi has been alright and Palmu 1+1 after the first period, game's tied 2-2 against Assat.

See. It's this easy to talk about Juolevi.

Edit: Good call Pump n Dump

 

[yvrtojfk]

I'm watching Juolevi play right now, wearing my Canucks jersey right now. Juolevi has been alright and Palmu 1+1 after the first period, game's tied 2-0 against Assat.

See. It's this easy to talk about Juolevi.

Keep us posted good sir.

 

[Pump n Dump]

I'm watching Juolevi play right now, wearing my Canucks jersey right now. Juolevi has been alright and Palmu 1+1 after the first period, game's tied 2-0 against Assat.

See. It's this easy to talk about Juolevi.

What kind of rules do they have in Finland?

 

[turkulad]

Great slapshot from Juolevi on the PP, Palmu scores on the rebound! 3-2 TPS. Palmu now 2+1, Juolevi 0+1.

 

[DFAC]

Great slapshot from Juolevi on the PP, Palmu scores on the rebound! 3-2 TPS. Palmu now 2+1, Juolevi 0+1.

thanks for the in game updates man, appreciate it

 

[PG Canuck]

How many games has Juolevi actually played? Thread title is skewing the stats.

 

[ihaveyuidonttouchme]

How many games has Juolevi actually played? Thread title is skewing the stats.

if the title says 2 games that means he only played 2 games! at least the points are up to date
elite has

G 20

5

9

14p

12 pims

9+

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[Draino]

Rely on linemates? Tkachuk's primary point rate is better than Keller's own right now. He's just played less. How is that relying on linemates? Keller relying on linemates then?

Really, people have to come up with better counter-arguments. I wouldn't even think about disparaging Tkachuk right now. It's a fool's errand. He's an excellent prospect that is tracking better than some of the best of his class. Had a phenomenal rookie year. Most of the underlying data suggests a continuation of the same... It's just a dog that won't hunt. Sorry.

You would have a better time trying to find comparable Dmen as reference points for Juolevi. To provide hope. I mean, expectations should revolve around him becoming a top4 Dman eventually. That seems more in line. Not comparing him to some of the best prospects in his draft class. It's an argument that fails before it begins.

Yawn, the fact that he plays with a selke calibre centre and d men capable of putting up 50 points surely isnt helping him right? Lets do a little mind excercise. Put magnificent Chucky on the third line in Bennett's spot and tell me if he puts up the same points. Yeah, right I stand by my point, hes a 15 goal scorer who is propped up by two of the most complete players the flames have. Is he a good player - of course he is - but some of you are acting like the Canucks passed on a Laine-Mathews calibre player when in fact there are players taken after him Id rather have. 6 goals so far this year, big whoop.

 

[rune74]

How many games has Juolevi actually played? Thread title is skewing the stats.

What? Too good do you think? Got to stop that.

 

[DFAC]

Yawn, the fact that he plays with a selke calibre centre and d men capable of putting up 50 points surely isnt helping him right? Lets do a little mind excercise. Put magnificent Chucky on the third line in Bennett's spot and tell me if he puts up the same points. Yeah, right I stand by my point, hes a 15 goal scorer who is propped up by two of the most complete players the flames have. Is he a good player - of course he is - but some of you are acting like the Canucks passed on a Laine-Mathews calibre player when in fact there are players taken after him Id rather have. 6 goals so far this year, big whoop.

Honestly, its looking like McAvoy will be the best player after Matthews/Laine

 

[Bleach Clean]

Yawn, the fact that he plays with a selke calibre centre and d men capable of putting up 50 points surely isnt helping him right? Lets do a little mind excercise. Put magnificent Chucky on the third line in Bennett's spot and tell me if he puts up the same points. Yeah, right I stand by my point, hes a 15 goal scorer who is propped up by two of the most complete players the flames have. Is he a good player - of course he is - but some of you are acting like the Canucks passed on a Laine-Mathews calibre player when in fact there are players taken after him Id rather have. 6 goals so far this year, big whoop.

No one needs to act like Tkachuk is generational to understand he's one of the best players in his draft class. Period. What he's doing is not easily replicated by any 18 or 19 year old. Unless you want to contend otherwise? (Believe me, I already know you can't do it)

About Tkachuk being propped up: How are you able to determine how much Tkachuk helps his line vs. how much his line helps him? This I'd like to hear/read.

Tkachuk is in a different class when it comes to comparing him to Juolevi. He's already a 1st line forward in the NHL, at 19 years of age. He's already a comparable player to Horvat. Meaning, he's doing what Horvat has done, but at an earlier age. Would you compare Horvat to Juolevi. No. It sounds ridiculous to do so. Why then continue to compare Juolevi to Tkachuk (with any type of seriousness)? It makes no sense. Juolevi is going to have to develop into a top4 Dman for that conversation to even begin to re-initiate. Let's hope he gets there.

 

[CanaFan]

Yawn, the fact that he plays with a selke calibre centre and d men capable of putting up 50 points surely isnt helping him right? Lets do a little mind excercise. Put magnificent Chucky on the third line in Bennett's spot and tell me if he puts up the same points. Yeah, right I stand by my point, hes a 15 goal scorer who is propped up by two of the most complete players the flames have. Is he a good player - of course he is - but some of you are acting like the Canucks passed on a Laine-Mathews calibre player when in fact there are players taken after him Id rather have. 6 goals so far this year, big whoop.

How does playing with a Selke caliber centre help Tkachuk put up points? Manny Malhotra was a Selke caliber Center too and I don’t think he ever inflated anyone’s offensive numbers.

And a 50 point D man? Wow, that’s insane. No team has ever had one of those before. Surely that inflated Tkachuk’s numbers through the roof lol. Of course none of Calgary’s D is on such a “torrid” pace this year (Brodie is the best with a 44-pt pace) and yet Tkachuk is scoring at an even higher pace (56 pt pace) than last year. How can that even be possible?

 

[krutovsdonut]

Would you compare Horvat to Juolevi. No. It sounds ridiculous to do so. Why then continue to compare Juolevi to Tkachuk (with any type of seriousness)? It makes no sense. Juolevi is going to have to develop into a top4 Dman for that conversation to even begin to re-initiate. Let's hope he gets there.

this is true except i would say he needs to "develop into a top4 defenceman or look like he has top pairing upside while playing in the nhl" to restart the conversation. two different metrics that each might start the discussion.

this approach is generally true of any highly touted drafted player not in the nhl as compared to a player from the same draft class currently making actual noise in the nhl. it is a pointless comparison. shall we compare petterson and hischier right now? how about mcavoy to chychrun last year? they even play the same position and yet it would be pointless to try.

 

[krutovsdonut]

How does playing with a Selke caliber centre help Tkachuk put up points? Manny Malhotra was a Selke caliber Center too and I don’t think he ever inflated anyone’s offensive numbers.

And a 50 point D man? Wow, that’s insane. No team has ever had one of those before. Surely that inflated Tkachuk’s numbers through the roof lol

you have to admit tkachuk is in a perfect situation. he's sheltered and has very strong linemates and plays a style absolutely suited to his team.

it's an extreme example, but tkachuk's game reminds me a bit of a more skilled deadmarsh. now i think deadmarsh was a good smart hockey player, but i also think playing with sakic and forsberg is what got him 30 goals.

 

[CanaFan]

you have to admit tkachuk is in a perfect situation. he's sheltered and has very strong linemates and plays a style absolutely suited to his team.

it's an extreme example, but tkachuk's game reminds me a bit of a more skilled deadmarsh. now i think deadmarsh was a good smart hockey player, but i also think playing with sakic and forsberg is what got him 30 goals.

I dunno. You say he’s sheltered but I think he also suffers from being behind Gaudreau on the left side. Gaudreau is >70% ozone starts in the past two seasons while Tkachuk has been 43% and 51% over that time. And being paired with Backlund means his line gets hard matched a lot against other team’s top lines. That same argument was used to explain why Granlund’s numbers were so bad earlier in the year so I think it bears some consideration here too.

Sure he’s got good linemates. Good players usually do. But he’s hardly being carried by an elite centre or getting passes from a Karlsson-level defenseman.

He’s a very good player, at the same level as Horvat I’d say. Not a star (yet) but definitely a very valuable piece that we’d all be raving over if he wore the blue and green.

 

[Bleach Clean]

this is true except i would say he needs to "develop into a top4 defenceman or look like he has top pairing upside while playing in the nhl" to restart the conversation. two different metrics that each might start the discussion.

this approach is generally true of any highly touted drafted player not in the nhl as compared to a player from the same draft class currently making actual noise in the nhl. it is a pointless comparison. shall we compare petterson and hischier right now? how about mcavoy to chychrun last year? they even play the same position and yet it would be pointless to try.

Not exactly. Cross-league comparisons happen.
Hischier vs Pettersson has been debated. Horvat vs Nichushkin was debated. Fiercely. It happens. Where it becomes farce is when one prospect is so far ahead that merely catching up would be a feat in of itself. It's just not close regardless of the league.

For example, there were multiple signs that Nichushkin wasn't as good as his early production had indicated. Further, Horvat finished his draft season well and his D+1 performance was strong. He was trending up. Overall, there were signs that suggested that the gap wasn't as vast between the two.

For Juolevi and Tkachuk, the former is going to have an immense hill to climb just to get back into the same conversation. It's because Tkachuk's performance is at a level that has been verified to be excellent. He turned in a fringe 1st line performance at 18 and is doing even better this year. That is truly phenomenal.

Disparate leagues aside, Juolevi is just not projecting to be anything close to what Tkachuk already is. That's why a comparison seems unwise.

 

[Jrtu]

How many games has Juolevi actually played? Thread title is skewing the stats.

Man, I thought we have a Bobby Orr on our hands...

 

[krutovsdonut]

I dunno. You say he’s sheltered but I think he also suffers from being behind Gaudreau on the left side. Gaudreau is >70% ozone starts in the past two seasons while Tkachuk has been 43% and 51% over that time. And being paired with Backlund means his line gets hard matched a lot against other team’s top lines. That same argument was used to explain why Granlund’s numbers were so bad earlier in the year so I think it bears some consideration here too.

Sure he’s got good linemates. Good players usually do. But he’s hardly being carried by an elite centre or getting passes from a Karlsson-level defenseman.

i'll grant you that if he was on a strong second line that never played a matchup role he'd be in an even better position, but those hardly exist. i think being in a second line role like his with lesser offence expectations and lesser defensive opposition is better for forward development. it is true he may play a match up role in some games but that also translates to a lot of ice time. we all know how granlund's ice time last year was used to explain his goal production.

 

[strattonius]

Im not that chapped we didnt take Tkachuk I think its too early to try and project a 19 yr old defensman. Juolevi could end up being a stud.

All I hope is that Juolevi isnt a reincarnation of Cam Barker.

 

[Ryp37]

Im not that chapped we didnt take Tkachuk I think its too early to try and project a 19 yr old defensman. Juolevi could end up being a stud.

what an original thought that hasn’t been shared before, do go on

 

[strattonius]

what an original thought that hasn’t been shared before, do go on

Unoriginal but still a thought. Are you policing my replies or something?

 

[Ryp37]

Unoriginal but still a thought. Are you policing my replies or something?

I thought we were both posting for the sake of posting?

 

[Oddleifson]

I thought we were both posting for the sake of posting?

Wait... even that requires conscious thought prior to the action, no?

 

[strattonius]

I thought we were both posting for the sake of posting?

I shared my opinion and you're trying to crap on me for some reason. Nice to meet you.