Shareefruck
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Suggesting that Juolevi compares favorably to Tkachuk, who is tracking exceptionally well, is hoping that he becomes better than just good, though.
Prospect Info: Olli Juolevi, Pt. VII | "Not A Tkachuk Thread" Edition | WJC postmortem
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Pavel96
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But Tkachuk has 65 pts in his first 103 games.
When you google Juolevi, this is the first news story that comes up - Canucks prospect Olli Juolevi needs to 'improve defensive awareness' - Sportsnet.ca
Bleach Clean
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Oh, I'm desperately hoping he is good. This franchise needs him to be good. I'm commenting about the instances where there is a _serious_ attempt made at comparing him to some of the best prospects in his class. It's pointless. Very few regard him as being at that level. It's akin to putting up a versus poll and having him finish with 2% of the vote. There's just no comparison so why belabour the point?
He's just hasn't tracked (since the draft) like he is going to be in the conversation with those players in the end.
Tkachuk is on pace for about 50 points at the one third point. He's a good player but certainly not a great one yet. I know that he was the obvious pick at Juolevi's spot but I don't see this as a big miss compared to how the Virtanen pick is looking. Still time for Juolevi to develop into as valuable a player as Tkachuk.
Bleach Clean
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Let's park "good" or "great" for the moment. Tkachuk is on pace to match Horvat's point totals from last year. Underlying stats, primary points, tracking well. How good of a player do you think Horvat is? That's really what we are looking at here. Tkachuk turns 20 years old in 3 days. Horvat scored at a 52 point pace in his 21 year old season. Tkachuk is on pace to do that a year ahead of when Horvat did it...
Is Horvat a good player? Is he a great player? Do you think Juolevi will ever match what Horvat represents right now?
NoRaise4Brackett
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but could Tkachuk put up those points, playing on that Canuck team, while being coached by Willie D?
You mean if he was our #1 LW playing with Horvat and getting 18 mins a night and 47% ozone starts instead of being Calgary’s #2 LW and getting only 14 mins a night and 42% ozone starts?
Ya, probably.
NoRaise4Brackett
But Brackett!!!
Did Horvat have a Horvat-level player to play with? Calgary's D was much better, and Backlund was the play-driver on his line. I don't think Tkachuk is in Horvat territory, at least not yet.
RobertKron
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How many points are you suggesting Horvat would have put up on the mighty Flames last year? 80? 100?
NoRaise4Brackett
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I'm not sure sure, but I am sure there is more to comparing players than just points.
RobertKron
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Bleach Clean
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Ok, let's control for WD:
Horvat is currently on pace for 59 points. He has 20 points in 521.14 TOI = 0.03837 PP/min.
Tkachuk is currently on pace for 52 points. He has 17 points in 434.42 TOI = 0.03913 P/min.
No WD holding Horvat back.
Look, there's more than enough evidence to suggest that Tkachuk is performing at a level that Horvat is at right now. The reason this gets brought up is that people mistakenly assume that it's rather pedestrian to get to that level. When in reality, chances are slim. Horvat is regarded as one of the leagues best young players. So to is Tkachuk. Juolevi has an epic, epic trek ahead of him to even get mentioned in the same book as either player... let alone the same sentence.
Hard to say. Tkachuk played in the NHL right out of the draft, Horvat played an extra year of jr. Horvat didn’t hit 40 pts until his 2nd NHL season, Tkachuk hit it in his first. Both players are scoring pretty close this year but Horvat is in his 4th season and is the team’s go-to offensive player while Tkachuk is in his second season and is on Calgary’s shut down line with Backlund.
Seems to me Tkachuk is matching Horvat’s production while at a younger age and in a less offensive role. Yes Calgary has a more talented D and that likely translates to some better production for everyone on Calgary but on the whole I think Horvat is in a far better situation to produce offense than Tkachuk is because of his role, minutes, ozone starts, and line mates.
NoRaise4Brackett
But Brackett!!!
It was just my opinion. I think Horvat is the better player last year and this year, even if points are close.
Anyways, of coarse Juolevi has a ways to go to catch up, but he's looking as though he's on track. I think he has top pairing potential, and I'm fine with waiting.
Anyways, of coarse Juolevi has a ways to go to catch up, but he's looking as though he's on track. I think he has top pairing potential, and I'm fine with waiting.
Will Tkachuk be as good as Horvat whose on pace for 60 points and centres the top line?
Hard to say but I'd say doubtful. Horvat's a pretty unique player whose work ethic has seen him take a big step each year. His skating went from poor to much improved as did his first step acceleration. That's not a normal development curve.
Tkachuk is a useful player no doubt but right now I think people are exaggerating as to how good he is.
I'm more interested in how Juolevi develops compared to the other defensemen in the draft.
Sergachev to me right now looks like the guy we should have drafted. Let's see what Juolevi develops into. If he can be a number two then I think he's as valuable as Tkachuk is likely to be. We will see.
NoRaise4Brackett
But Brackett!!!
What I meant, was I don't think Tkachuk would have done as well on that Canuck team, with that bad of coaching, in place of Horvat. Yes I said points, but I also think Horvat drove play better, I just didn't mention it in that post.
You’re entitled to that opinion but it’s extremely debatable. Factor in their age and experience gap and Tkachuk is clearly ahead at the same age. Now whether that has any relevance is also extremely debatable. Tkachuk is currently a known entity in the NHL, Juolevi is not. It doesn’t mean Juolevi can’t reach or surpass Tkachuk someday but it’s gotta be below 50/50 at the moment.
RobertKron
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turkulad
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I'm sure Tkachuk would tkachuk, but how much would a Tkachuk chuk tkachuk while under tkachuk playing for Tkachuk? I tkachuk my case.
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