Oilers owner(s)...says they will be gone without a cap

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txpd

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JWI19 said:
So they can barely afford a 30 million dollar payroll, but somehow they'll be fine if there is a cap with a payroll floor of 34 million dollars? Some things dont add up. And i know the response i'll get about revenue sharing from the pro owner crowd "if it doesn't matter to them why should it matter to you"

The question is a simple one. At $30m Edmonton can't afford to compete with the $70m RedWings, $60m Avalanche, $60m Blues, & $60m Dallas Stars. That comes to half of the western conference playoff spots. That leaves Edmonton left to scrap for the final 4 spots. Their playoff chances are 50% of what the spenders chances are.

Just like Calgary, Edmonton needs to compete in order to sell enough tickets to pay its bills. If there is a $38m salary cap holding down Detroit, St Louis, Colorado, and Dallas, those four playoff spots come back into play for teams like Edmonton.
 

shnagle

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JWI19 said:
Sure are a lot of maybes in there arnie. I thought the point of this lockout was to make sure all 30 teams could survive. The NHL is only as strong as their weakest link. I'm sorry there is a way to make sure all 30 teams can survive but i dont see the NHL owners willing to take that road.
I was about to post the same response. That is an awful lot of maybe's and is a far cry from the league's "cost certainty" pledge. People seem to just focus on the cap and fail to recognize some of the consequences the floor would have on the small market teams.
 

bhawk24bob

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Unlike alot of people on these boards I guess, I have a knack of getting past the posturing both sides are doing. It's a funny world when billionaires can't get along with millionaires and my care level is actually very low.

I do miss NHL hockey a little bit. I miss the way these boards heat up during the trade deadline. I even miss being bashed for being a Leafs fan. One thing I won't forget after this gets finished is how little either side really cared about us, the fans.

You remember us, the people who have made the NHL a 2.1 billion dollar industry. The people in spite of numorous crappy TV deals, who still support the NHL with a passion. The people who are the only ones really being hurt here.

So the owners of Edmonton say "suspend our team if we don't get exactly what we want", maybe thats one bluff i'd like to see called. I'm so sick and tired of all the press releases, TV interviews and newspaper columns that are just blurbing out the same spin doctor crap.

I wonder if those same Edmonton Oiler's owners know how bad the lockout is hurting the Toronto Maple Leafs (who turned a 18 million dollar profit last year) or the Detroit Red Wings (much the same). I wonder if they really care. Even though they are supposed to be "partners"

There is alot of money up in Edmonton and some businessmen with very deep pockets. Maybe the problem with the NHL is not locations, but the owners that own the teams. Maybe the problem is lack of corporate support, or teams of investors with different agendas.

Who knows?

But one thing i'm sick of is seeing this crap being written in the papers when both sides have been too lazy to sit and talk in person.

I am not missing the NHL as much as I would think. There are other products out there. And some of them are not souly interested in the allmightydollar


i dont think i could have said it much better.

if edmonton is selling out every game and are still losing money, that tells you one of two things- either ticket prices are too low, or edmonton cannot support an nhl team, which wont change if there's a salary floor.
 

Motown Beatdown

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txpd said:
The question is a simple one. At $30m Edmonton can't afford to compete with the $70m RedWings, $60m Avalanche, $60m Blues, & $60m Dallas Stars. That comes to half of the western conference playoff spots. That leaves Edmonton left to scrap for the final 4 spots. Their playoff chances are 50% of what the spenders chances are.

Just like Calgary, Edmonton needs to compete in order to sell enough tickets to pay its bills. If there is a $38m salary cap holding down Detroit, St Louis, Colorado, and Dallas, those four playoff spots come back into play for teams like Edmonton.


But these teams are still dependent on making the playoffs to make money or break even. Sure it will improve their chances, but it's still a risk. Like i said there is a way to make sure all teams are healthy. But is the NHL owners willing to take those steps?
 

AM

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JWI19 said:
So they can barely afford a 30 million dollar payroll, but somehow they'll be fine if there is a cap with a payroll floor of 34 million dollars? Some things dont add up. And i know the response i'll get about revenue sharing from the pro owner crowd "if it doesn't matter to them why should it matter to you"

Yup Cal Nichols dosnt know what hes talking about. Just because they dont put revenue sharing in the CBA dosnt mean the Owners wont do revenue sharing.
 

John Flyers Fan

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Any thoughts on a new building for the Oilers to help generate more revenue ???

I know the Penguins have the oldest building in the NHL, but I believe that the Isles and Oilers would be next in line.
 

AM

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Go Flames Go said:
There has never been crying over on our side that we need to HARD CAP to live. Even Ken King soudned surprised when Edmonton made thoose remarks. Ken King and Uncle Sutter have always said we need the "right deal" that will work for us. Never have they said we need the hard cap for us to survive. Im sure with revenue sharing both Edmonton and Calgary will live and survive.

Do I want Edmonton gone? No. The BOA is needed in hockey to keep it alive, and very could revive it. How are the Oilers gonna say we cannot continue when there payroll is barley $30 million and they have to raise it to be in the payroll ranges range.

We can afford to pay players in the $38 million range, and we loose only about $5-6 milion a season, a good revenue sharing plan plus taxes on a soft cap will erase that.

It would have erased it for the last 5 years.

Unfortuneately, the deal is for the next 10 years.
 

Charge_Seven

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Yeah - I let them. The owners group have lost 14 million CDN over the last 5 years. They have personally been asked to pony up additional millions for debt relief for a franchise that I would doubt is worth anything close to the 90+ million they've invested. These are not super rich people, so this money matters to them. If they want to cry about it, so be it. It's their money, and I certainly don't expect them to loose money on my behalf.

It'd be kinda nice if the Canadian Government would give out a bit of cash to the Canadian teams (I don't care if the Leafs get it, we don't need it, divide ours up in Western Canada :D ). As much as it's been an unpopular idea, I think we all remember the sponsorship scandal, or the gun registry (One freaking billion dollars for a failed project...). At least if that was given to the teams, we'd have good entertaining hockey.
 

syc

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Rev sharing, caps? So will fans in Detroit and Toronto be paying the same price per ticket as fans in Edmonton and Calgary? Didn't think so..... I only want to be paying for Iginlas contract if he's playing for the Leafs.
 

Charge_Seven

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syc said:
Rev sharing, caps? So will fans in Detroit and Toronto be paying the same price per ticket as fans in Edmonton and Calgary? Didn't think so..... I only want to be paying for Iginlas contract if he's playing for the Leafs.

:bow:

You're right about that one.

Maybe it should simply be game by game revenue sharing. IE, when Iginla comes to Toronto to play us with Calgary, and we've got a sold out arena, we hand over 30% of the games sales to the Flames. Also, when we go to Calgary, they hand us 30% of their game sales.
 

Mr Sakich

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syc said:
Rev sharing, caps? So will fans in Detroit and Toronto be paying the same price per ticket as fans in Edmonton and Calgary? Didn't think so..... I only want to be paying for Iginlas contract if he's playing for the Leafs.

actually, a good case can be made for detroit paying penalties to the rest of the league. Their business plan results in a opertng loss unless they reach the conference finals. They are screwing up the league economics for everyone.

As for the leafs, I have no issue with them having a much higher payroll than the oil. Their economic situation is different. They don't lose money with their payroll. I respect them a lot more than the caps, blues, wings, etc who plan to lose money

edit - I apologize to the board for not taking a shot at the leafs. It is considered bad form here not to insult them at every possible chance and I blew it.
 
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Motown Beatdown

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Mr Sakich said:
actually, a good case can be made for detroit paying penalties to the rest of the league. Their business plan results in a opertng loss unless they reach the conference finals. They are screwing up the league economics for everyone.

As for the leafs, I have no issue with them having a much higher payroll than the oil. Their economic situation is different. They don't lose money with their payroll. I respect them a lot more than the caps, blues, wings, etc who plan to lose money


As a Wings fan, i totally agree with you. Any plan to lose money and depend on the playoffs to make money is asinine.
 

Poignant Discussion*

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Mr Sakich said:
go to qr77.com right now and listen to nichol's side of the story. He is on in a couple of minutes. If you think he is full of crap after listening to him, then post it here.

I'm not going to bother listening to more "spin" I have heard more of it over the last 6 months than I ever want to again. The only spin I will listen to is one of the billionaires or even the millionaires speaking up for the fans, which we all know will never happen unless its tied to their situation.

The line "the hockey doesn't matter" was the perfect line. It speaks so clearly how really neither side gives 2 craps about us. It's ALL ABOUT THEM

Sorry the hockey DOES matter and NHL or no NHL I'm still getting my "fix" via the juniors or the AHL. Maybe we should be saying "the NHL don't matter". If enough of us said this a deal would have been worked out in 2 hours.

Because we all know if the billionaires or the millionaires are not getting any pie....they will get quite hungry
 

John Flyers Fan

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JWI19 said:
As a Wings fan, i totally agree with you. Any plan to lose money and depend on the playoffs to make money is asinine.

I think it depends on how far you take it. Obviously banking on a trip to the finals to make money is pretty boneheaded.

The Flyers as a plan always set their budget to break even if they played 3 home playoff games. Play more than that and you make money, play less than that and you'll lose money.

I don't see that as being too unreasonable.
 

se7en*

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John Flyers Fan said:
Any thoughts on a new building for the Oilers to help generate more revenue ???

I know the Penguins have the oldest building in the NHL, but I believe that the Isles and Oilers would be next in line.

It's been talked about, but I don't know where the money would come from - they spent alot renovating Rexall Place I think. I would like to have a brand spankin-new rink! :) I don't see it happening anytime soon though.

How do publicly-funded arenas work?
 

CalgaryThrasher

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If the Oilers left.. I do not think it would harm The Flames... We almost lost our team but a Save our Flames campaign in 1999/2000 was a success and the fans stepped up, not to mention the new Flames fans the team picked up from last years playoff run. Our ownership is more stable, and the franchise as a whole is more stable.

With that said.. I would not want the Oilers to leave. The Battle of Alberta is too good to lose.
 

se7en*

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Calgary and Edmonton are the same size. The Flames sucked for 7 straight years and still drew great crowds. I think it's safe to say their market is saturated too. And if you think you have nothing to worry about, you're kidding yourself.
 

txpd

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Mr Sakich said:
actually, a good case can be made for detroit paying penalties to the rest of the league. Their business plan results in a opertng loss unless they reach the conference finals. They are screwing up the league economics for everyone.

As for the leafs, I have no issue with them having a much higher payroll than the oil. Their economic situation is different. They don't lose money with their payroll. I respect them a lot more than the caps, blues, wings, etc who plan to lose money

edit - I apologize to the board for not taking a shot at the leafs. It is considered bad form here not to insult them at every possible chance and I blew it.

Let me stand up to defend the Capitals. For years under owner Abe Pollin the Capitals were considered a bargain basement team. Getting the best out of a low payroll, but never taking the next step to trying to win the Cup. In fact even after Ted Leonsis bought the team and anti'd up good contract dollars for home grown players like Kolzig, Gonchar and Bondra the league wide rep on the Caps was that they were cheap. When Turgeon and Roenick days apart took less money than what the Caps had offered to sign with Dallas and Philly, JR was very forthcoming when he said that players wont sign with Washington because they were not willing to do what it takes to win.

That is when the whole Jagr mess happened. Leonsis trying to prove his team meant business and got caught up in emotion and made a bad decision.

You lump them in with St Louis. Are you forgetting that before the Rangers signed Joe Sakic to an offer sheet the Blues a couple of years previous had done the same with the Caps Scott Stevens. The difference was that the big money Avalanche paid the money and the small money Caps let didnt and lost Stevens. I think its funny to put them in the same catagory...particularly with the with the Blues and the Red Wings. The Caps have never come close to Wings or Blues payroll levels.
 

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CalgaryThrasher said:
If the Oilers left.. I do not think it would harm The Flames... We almost lost our team but a Save our Flames campaign in 1999/2000 was a success and the fans stepped up, not to mention the new Flames fans the team picked up from last years playoff run. Our ownership is more stable, and the franchise as a whole is more stable.

With that said.. I would not want the Oilers to leave. The Battle of Alberta is too good to lose.


Living in denial,ahh the last refuge of a Flamesfan.
 

HabsoluteFate

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JWI19 said:
So they can barely afford a 30 million dollar payroll, but somehow they'll be fine if there is a cap with a payroll floor of 34 million dollars? Some things dont add up. And i know the response i'll get about revenue sharing from the pro owner crowd "if it doesn't matter to them why should it matter to you"

If there is a salary cap then the average salary will no longer continue to sky rocket like it has so far which means Edmonton will be able to retain their top players for less money...salaries might even decrease because of the cap...so yes I can see a cap affecting even the teams below the cap.
 

Anksun

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I strongly disagree with the Flames fan saying if we can sign something now and lost only the Oilers in the process, then go for it... :shakehead

What a blasphemy. For once, you might want to think about hockey and not your team only as of right now. The NHL as of right now is bringing in less and less fans and interest. imo, they can't afford loosing another Canadian team where the base of fans per population is at a very peak.

And btw, you might want to argue and argue again, but at the end: if you think the Calgary Flames can survive easily in a market where Edmonton die, you're delusional.
 
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