Oilers owner(s)...says they will be gone without a cap

[se7en*]

n/m.

 

[Mr Sakich]

When did the Sens borrow a bunch of money from the government? The only government loan the Sens recieved was to build a freeway interchange (which is now being used by other businesses in the area).

that is the money I am talking about. They asked for it, promised to repay it, got it , and then walked away without repaying it.

 

[se7en*]

I have to question his stance, though. We recently passed the million mark, the city is experiencing an unprecendented growth rate, the economy is the most diversified in the country, so why do they need a cap to profit? I'm just asking. It seems like all the pieces are in place for a big-league city.

 

[BLONG7]

I have to question his stance, though. We recently passed the million mark, the city is experiencing an unprecendented growth rate, the economy is the most diversified in the country, so why do they need a cap to profit? I'm just asking. It seems like all the pieces are in place for a big-league city.

Without a TV deal, they would have to jack the ticket prices through the roof...nobody wants that!

 

[Lanny MacDonald*]

We don't need em, if a deal today means a soft cap and no Edmonton Oilers I say lets sign that peice of paper right away.

You know something, YOU really give Flames fans a bad name.

If the Oilers fold or leave, guess who is right on their heels? That's right, the Calgary Flames. These two teams are connected to each other at the hip. What affects the Oilers affects the Flames in the same manner. Just becaise the Flames went to the finals this past season does not mean anything has changed from a financial point of view. This is still a team in serious financial trouble that cannot survive without a CBA that works in the team's favor. The same can be said for all small market teams. So what is bad for the Oilers, and drives them out of business is also bad for the Flames and likely has a similar result.

 

[Egil]

No, the Oilers would actually never do something like that. There is something in the west called "ethics" and the business owners out there know that if they screw the local population you are done in them thar parts. The Oilers community ownership would never consider somethin like that, or they would screw themselves out of all of the businesses at the same time.

Icono, you my friend need a history lesson.

The start of the Ottawa Senators was really a large real-estate plan. The Corel Center was going to be built, surounded by a shopping mall, hotel with conference center, and a bunch of houses. The real estate was going to pay for construction of the Corel Center (which was, believe it or not, was to be 100% privately financed).

However, in came the Ontario Government, in the form of the Zoning Commision. They shot down EVERYTHING, except for the building (which they reduced from 20,500 to 18,500 capacity). But, by this point we already had the team, and the Civic Center simply isn't a viable NHL arena (10,500 capacity).

Anyways, after this zoning mess, the Senators manage to go ahead with construction of the Corel Center (along with paying for a freeway interchange, which is the ONLY public money in the entire project, and was at the time a loan). However, to gain the capital required to build the building, they have to sell ALL the parking, concessions, etc. to Ogden Corp., who agreed to fund the project.

So, the building gets built, and is being run by Ogden, and all seems well. It is still mired in debt (it was basically built entirely on credit), but things seem OK. But then Covanta (Ogden's parent company) declares bankruptcy, the money to pay the debt on the building from Ogden doesn't come, and Bryden has to scramble. Bakruptcy is declared, Melnyk comes in, and the debt on the building is gone.

Basically, while some locals did get screwed, it can ALL be traced back to the Ontario Zoning Commision, who broked the entire thing up.

 

[Go Flames Go*]

There has never been crying over on our side that we need to HARD CAP to live. Even Ken King soudned surprised when Edmonton made thoose remarks. Ken King and Uncle Sutter have always said we need the "right deal" that will work for us. Never have they said we need the hard cap for us to survive. Im sure with revenue sharing both Edmonton and Calgary will live and survive.

Do I want Edmonton gone? No. The BOA is needed in hockey to keep it alive, and very could revive it. How are the Oilers gonna say we cannot continue when there payroll is barley $30 million and they have to raise it to be in the payroll ranges range.

We can afford to pay players in the $38 million range, and we loose only about $5-6 milion a season, a good revenue sharing plan plus taxes on a soft cap will erase that.

 

[Lanny MacDonald*]

Icono, you my friend need a history lesson.

The start of the Ottawa Senators was really a large real-estate plan. The Corel Center was going to be built, surounded by a shopping mall, hotel with conference center, and a bunch of houses. The real estate was going to pay for construction of the Corel Center (which was, believe it or not, was to be 100% privately financed).

However, in came the Ontario Government, in the form of the Zoning Commision. They shot down EVERYTHING, except for the building (which they reduced from 20,500 to 18,500 capacity). But, by this point we already had the team, and the Civic Center simply isn't a viable NHL arena (10,500 capacity).

Anyways, after this zoning mess, the Senators manage to go ahead with construction of the Corel Center (along with paying for a freeway interchange, which is the ONLY public money in the entire project, and was at the time a loan). However, to gain the capital required to build the building, they have to sell ALL the parking, concessions, etc. to Ogden Corp., who agreed to fund the project.

So, the building gets built, and is being run by Ogden, and all seems well. It is still mired in debt (it was basically built entirely on credit), but things seem OK. But then Covanta (Ogden's parent company) declares bankruptcy, the money to pay the debt on the building from Ogden doesn't come, and Bryden has to scramble. Bakruptcy is declared, Melnyk comes in, and the debt on the building is gone.

Basically, while some locals did get screwed, it can ALL be traced back to the Ontario Zoning Commision, who broked the entire thing up.

Ah, so what you're saying is that its okay to to take government money to help your enterprise, and default on payment, as long as it affects only the locals and can be blamed on someone else. Gotcha. Lesson learned. Thank you very much.

 

[Mr Sakich]

thanks for the history lesson egil. Nice summary.

We have our share of sheisters in the west as well but the oiler owners are not amongst them. I know one personally and know the reputations of most of the EIG. These guys bleed oiler blue and put their own hard earned self-made millions into this community venture. It would be an absolute shame if the deal means the oilers leave.

The oilers are the NHL equivelent to the Green Bay Packers.

 

[se7en*]

There has never been crying over on our side that we need to HARD CAP to live. Even Ken King soudned surprised when Edmonton made thoose remarks. Ken King and Uncle Sutter have always said we need the "right deal" that will work for us. Never have they said we need the hard cap for us to survive. Im sure with revenue sharing both Edmonton and Calgary will live and survive.

So because Ken King doesn't have the balls to speak out means the NHL is more viable in Calgary? Nice try.

Do I want Edmonton gone? No.

This says otherwise.

We don't need em, if a deal today means a soft cap and no Edmonton Oilers I say lets sign that peice of paper right away.

The BOA is needed in hockey to keep it alive, and very could revive it.

Then go away. We don't need your sympathy.

How are the Oilers gonna say we cannot continue when there payroll is barley $30 million and they have to raise it to be in the payroll ranges range.

Why is it necessary to raise payroll to the cap? I've heard this from others, and can someone explain to me why? (Preferably not you)

 

[Lanny MacDonald*]

There has never been crying over on our side that we need to HARD CAP to live. Even Ken King soudned surprised when Edmonton made thoose remarks. Ken King and Uncle Sutter have always said we need the "right deal" that will work for us. Never have they said we need the hard cap for us to survive. Im sure with revenue sharing both Edmonton and Calgary will live and survive.

Do I want Edmonton gone? No. The BOA is needed in hockey to keep it alive, and very could revive it. How are the Oilers gonna say we cannot continue when there payroll is barley $30 million and they have to raise it to be in the payroll ranges range.

We can afford to pay players in the $38 million range, and we loose only about $5-6 milion a season, a good revenue sharing plan plus taxes on a soft cap will erase that.

Yes, the Flames have cried just as hard as the Oilers. Ken King has said it as did Ron Bremner before him. The Flames have been all about surviving until 2004 and then they would see what the new CBA brought. Exact same situation. So please, lay off the Oilers and keep the Flames pom-pom waiving to a minimum.

BTW... "lose" has one "o". We all make spelling mistakes in our haste to make a post, but that one just drives me up the wall. Its an entirely different word for crying out loud!

 

[Go Flames Go*]

The payroll ranges are 33 million to 38 million no team cannot be under the 33 million and over 38 million.

 

[Egil]

WHAT GOVERNMENT MONEY DID THEY TAKE? They had a 22 Mil loan for a freeway interchange that they shouldn't have had to pay for in the first place, of which they repaid a considerable sum before having to declare BANKRUPTCY. I am sure their original business plan called for declaring bankruptcy after 8 years or whatever, it makes a TON of sense.

So, while the Ontario government probably lost a bit of money, when you consider that they built the skydome, and sold the Leafs the land for the ACC in downtown Toronto for $1, I think the LEAST Ottawa deserved was to have a god damn freeway interchange built (which as I said is now used by MANY things other than just the corel center). Maybe if the Sens could have charged a toll in the morning to pay for it, it would make sense, but they couldn't even do that.

You also fail to understand that the ENTIRE problem stemmed from Covanta (who was an Enronesque company), when they had to declare bankruptcy, since it was them who were paying the debt on the Corel Center.

 

[shnagle]

So because Ken King doesn't have the balls to speak out means the NHL is more viable in Calgary? Nice try.



This says otherwise.





Then go away. We don't need your sympathy.



Why is it necessary to raise payroll to the cap? I've heard this from others, and can someone explain to me why? (Preferably not you)

There is no need to raise payroll to the cap. The league has suggested a salary range which has a floor. No team can spend less than the floor which under the last league proposal would be in the neighborhood of 34 million.

 

[Go Flames Go*]

I've always been thinking that the NHL is going to put in a good revenue sharing program that will help our team turn a profit, and been a firm beliver that there will be a better TV contract in the future to make our team that much more money. Without revenue sharing and a cap, I don't see how we can make money.

 

[Lanny MacDonald*]

The payroll ranges are 33 million to 38 million no team cannot be under the 33 million and over 38 million.

We have no idea what those ranges are and to speak of them in factual fashion like you di is irresponsible. Think man!

 

[Go Flames Go*]

There is no need to raise payroll to the cap. The league has suggested a salary range which has a floor. No team can spend less than the floor which under the last league proposal would be in the neighborhood of 34 million.

Edmontons payroll is $30 million, they will have to raise there salary to get into the range, otherwise the league will be dishingout escrow money to make sure the salaries being paid are at 51%.

 

[red devil]

Why is it necessary to raise payroll to the cap? I've heard this from others, and can someone explain to me why? (Preferably not you)

In the proposal the NHL offered to the PA, they had a cap floor at 51% and a cap ceiling at 57%. Using last year's numbers the salary range would be between $34.6 million and $38.6 million for each team.

 

[Go Flames Go*]

We have no idea what those ranges are and to speak of them in factual fashion like you di is irresponsible. Think man!

What are you talking about? Look at the last NHL proposal this is what the range system would be in the first year. That was what was being offered.

 

[shnagle]

Edmontons payroll is $30 million, they will have to raise there salary to get into the range, otherwise the league will be dishingout escrow money to make sure the salaries being paid are at 51%.

I thought that was what I said. I simply stated that teams don't need to spend the cap but rather must spend the floor.

 

[Go Flames Go*]

I thought that was what I said. I simply stated that teams don't need to spend the cap but rather must spend the floor.

Naw you said Edmontons does not need to raise there payroll, but they actually do to get into the range because they would be spending only $30 million, and the range starts at $34.6 Million so they gotta dish out $4.6 Million extra to get into the range.

 

[Lanny MacDonald*]

What are you talking about? Look at the last NHL proposal this is what the range system would be in the first year. That was what was being offered.

Oh, so you have been sitting in on the meetings have you? You have any idea as to what is going on behind close doors and what numbers are REALLY floating around? You are to the owners side of the argument what Wetcoaster is to the players side of the argument. One big source of disinformation and a big fertilizer spreader. I would advise you to focus on the concepts rather than the minutia of the details because we have no idea what is being offered up nor what is really important to either side at the moment. Unless you have a direct connection to Trevor Linden or Harley Hotchkiss' belly buttons, please stop quoting numbers like fact.

 

[shnagle]

There is no need to raise payroll to the cap. The league has suggested a salary range which has a floor. No team can spend less than the floor which under the last league proposal would be in the neighborhood of 34 million.

Here is a copy of my original post where I clearly state that they do not need to spend the cap but rather the floor of aroung 34 million. Which part of that was unclear to you?

 

[Go Flames Go*]

Oh, so you have been sitting in on the meetings have you? You have any idea as to what is going on behind close doors and what numbers are REALLY floating around? You are to the owners side of the argument what Wetcoaster is to the players side of the argument. One big source of disinformation and a big fertilizer spreader. I would advise you to focus on the concepts rather than the minutia of the details because we have no idea what is being offered up nor what is really important to either side at the moment. Unless you have a direct connection to Trevor Linden or Harley Hotchkiss' belly buttons, please stop quoting numbers like fact.

Again what are you talking about? ALl these other posters just used the exact same numbers as me. THis is the what would come into play if the greedy players would accept the salary range system.

 

[Go Flames Go*]

There is no need to raise payroll to the cap. The league has suggested a salary range which has a floor. No team can spend less than the floor which under the last league proposal would be in the neighborhood of 34 million.

Here is a copy of my original post where I clearly state that they do not need to spend the cap but rather the floor of aroung 34 million. Which part of that was unclear to you?

Oh I think you think I meant they need to spend up to the $38.6 million. I was reffering to them being under the floor so they have to raise it to be within the range system. They have to spend at least $34.6 million which they currently are not.