Post-Game Talk: Oilers 3 Kings 2 - McPoints 2

[nabob]

Sekera stop-gap: Beauchemin
Backup: Kuemper
Winger: Vanek

All signed one-year deals this summer. $3.6M total salary- coincidentally, the difference in cap hit between Eberle and Strome.

Chiarelli had plenty of opportunities to do his job. He didn't. That's on him.

Yes he should have forced all those UFAs to sign in Edmonton. You know how everyone wants to sign here for cheap.

Also pretty easy to pick the best UFA value deals, that most people wouldn't have expected to work out and say he should have done them.

 

[belair]

Sekera stop-gap: Beauchemin
Backup: Kuemper
Winger: Vanek

All signed one-year deals this summer. $3.6M total salary- coincidentally, the difference in cap hit between Eberle and Strome.

Chiarelli had plenty of opportunities to do his job. He didn't. That's on him.

Didn't say it's not on him.

Like I said, I'm not convinced a few low-end FA signings turn the tide on this season's fortunes. I wouldn't have been opposed to any of those players had we been able to sign them. But there was a lot that went wrong internally this season that we don't really have an explanation for.

 

[Soundwave]

One line teams are prone to collapsing. Look at Calgary, look at Dallas too. The Oiler just collapsed in January instead of March.

This season is not that inexplicable. Throw in a young group that got mentally rattled fast and you have a lost season.

 

[PatrikOverAuston]

Yes he should have forced all those UFAs to sign in Edmonton. You know how everyone wants to sign here for cheap.

If Peter Chiarelli can't convince someone to sign with a team coming off a 2nd round appearance and the game's best player over the freakin' Canucks, he's bad at his job. Nice try, though.

Also pretty easy to pick the best UFA value deals, that most people wouldn't have expected to work out and say he should have done them.

Beauchemin is playing exactly as he did last year with the sad-sack Avs- solid, reliable hockey. Kuemper surprised in LA but had been a reliable backup for four years with the Wild. Vanek is being Vanek.

As usual, attempts to make Chia look better by creating a fun new excuse only make him look worse. If he couldn't tell that a guy like Vanek- who has been a 40-50 point player since 2015- was capable of 40-50 points this year, he shouldn't be employed. Period.

 

[DaGap]

It was caused by good pressure but Larsson wasn't the one who turned the puck over. He was the 3rd last Oiler to touch the puck...

Goal was caused mainly by poor goaltending and lack of forward support/ability to win a puck battle.

The goal that was caused by Larsson Firing it off the glass for no reason

 

[belair]

The goal that was caused by Larsson Firing it off the glass for no reason

He wrapped it to Nurse who moved it to the LW who was immediately stripped ending up in the Muzzin goal. How you pin that on Larsson is questionable.

The Kings were very effective in stifling our breakout last night. Kris Russell's lack of willingness to make high-risk passes is an example of how we should respond to that king of forecheck. Rej's attempt on the Carter goal was how we shouldn't. Which one has the 'better' breakout?

 

[nabob]

If Peter Chiarelli can't convince someone to sign with a team coming off a 2nd round appearance and the game's best player over the freakin' Canucks, he's bad at his job. Nice try, though.



Beauchemin is playing exactly as he did last year with the sad-sack Avs- solid, reliable hockey. Kuemper surprised in LA but had been a reliable backup for four years with the Wild. Vanek is being Vanek.

As usual, attempts to make Chia look better by creating a fun new excuse only make him look worse. If he couldn't tell that a guy like Vanek- who has been a 40-50 point player since 2015- was capable of 40-50 points this year, he shouldn't be employed. Period.

Cherry picking three of the only good UFA signings is pretty weak on your part. To pretend like Edmonton still isn't at the bottom of most players list for desirable places to play is also ignorant.

Kuemper was awful last season as a backup and was on his last legs to stay in the league. People would have laughed if we had added him last offseason. maybe he could have sent the slow and old Vanek the DVD to show how much better a city Edmonton is than Vancouver. I'm sure after scoring 2 goals in 20 games for Florida and being a total bust there fans would have been over the moon with the signing, thinking he was the final piece of the puzzle. Crying about us not signing these guys is no different than crying about a late round pick that turns out ok for another team.

 

[nabob]

He wrapped it to Nurse who moved it to the LW who was immediately stripped ending up in the Muzzin goal. How you pin that on Larsson is questionable.

The Kings were very effective in stifling our breakout last night. Kris Russell's lack of willingness to make high-risk passes is an example of how we should respond to that king of forecheck. Rej's attempt on the Carter goal was how we shouldn't. Which one has the 'better' breakout?

He probably just projecting anger about the Hall trade as his thought process about the play doesn't make any sense.

 

[Soundwave]

There's always convenient excuses for Chia. Can't do this, can't do that, had to lose this trade, etc. etc. etc.

Dude is gonna miss the playoffs by 20 points with the best player in the world on it and another one of the top younger players in the league.

 

[nabob]

The goal that was caused by Larsson Firing it off the glass for no reason

Once again, something that didn't happen on the play. You mad about Hall? That's why you inventing stuff that didn't happen?

 

[PatrikOverAuston]

Didn't say it's not on him.

A step in the right direction.

Like I said, I'm not convinced a few low-end FA signings turn the tide on this season's fortunes.

Not playing the goalie carousel early in the year would have meant a couple more wins at least. Not having to play one of Gryba, Benning or Auvitu all the time would have helped- as would being able to ease Sekera back into the lineup after his injury. Vanek's 21 goals would have very nearly replaced Eberle's 25 at a third the price.

Individually, no, none of them are good enough to make a substantial difference. But Chiarelli bled out this team's depth through a thousand small cuts. A 20+ goal scorer, a 17-20 minute a night veteran D and a good backup could very well have meant five more wins/10 more points. That's a team in the hunt right up to today, not one in the bottom ten.

I wouldn't have been opposed to any of thos players had we been able to sign them. But there was a lot that went wrong internally this season that we don't really have an explanation for.

Oh, for sure. That's the TMacT side of the equation. Add in the above three FAs + replace the head coach with someone capable of actually running a bench, and this team is absolutely in the top 9.

It's why we so desperately need to clean house this summer. The Oilers are on a precipice- waste another year, and we might not see another playoff run for the first half of McDavid's contract. But rip the band-aid off, and a Cup is still possible in the next three years. The decision has to come now and it has to come fast. Otherwise, this rebuild was for naught.

 

[nabob]

Such a predictable toilet bowl ending to a PGT after a solid win.

Crying about Kuemper and Beauchemin and ragging on Larsson for a play he didn't make an error on at all. Much like the blowout win against the 'Canes, just a bunch of whiners slagging on Puljujarvi after one of his best games ever.

There's a dozen thread about how much Chia blew it this year, might as well pollute the PGT with things that have been said 10000 times and act like you're brilliant for cherry picking a few things that worked elsewhere.

 

[nabob]

A step in the right direction.



Not playing the goalie carousel early in the year would have meant a couple more wins at least. Not having to play one of Gryba, Benning or Auvitu all the time would have helped- as would being able to ease Sekera back into the lineup after his injury. Vanek's 21 goals would have very nearly replaced Eberle's 25 at a third the price.

Individually, no, none of them are good enough to make a substantial difference. But Chiarelli bled out this team's depth through a thousand small cuts. A 20+ goal scorer, a 17-20 minute a night veteran D and a good backup could very well have meant five more wins/10 more points. That's a team in the hunt right up to today, not one in the bottom ten.



Oh, for sure. That's the TMacT side of the equation. Add in the above three FAs + replace the head coach with someone capable of actually running a bench, and this team is absolutely in the top 9.

It's why we so desperately need to clean house this summer. The Oilers are on a precipice- waste another year, and we might not see another playoff run for the first half of McDavid's contract. But rip the band-aid off, and a Cup is still possible in the next three years. The decision has to come now and it has to come fast. Otherwise, this rebuild was for naught.

Talbot not being the worst starting goalie in the league for 5 months, Klefbom not playing like a #6, one of our five young wingers showing any progression, Benning not regressing to an AHLer, Kassian playing with a purpose, Strome being utilized properly from day 1, having a PK or PP coach who has a clue...a few of those things could have also made a 10 point difference. But you wouldn't want to have to hold players/coaches accountable for their performance this year, would you?

 

[PatrikOverAuston]

Cherry picking three of the only good UFA signings is pretty weak on your part.

Again, if you can't figure out that Thomas Vanek is good for 40-50 points after literally doing it years in a row, you shouldn't be a GM.

Look, I'll help you:

2013-14: 59 points
2014-15: 52 points
2015-16: 41 points
2016-17: 48 points

Based on the above, do you think it was likely he scored over 40 points again, or not likely? If not, why not?

To pretend like Edmonton still isn't at the bottom of most players list for desirable places to play is also ignorant.

This strangely was not an excuse last summer when Lucic took less money to sign here and the Oilers turned down Jason Demers even after he toured the new rink. Once again, very convenient that suddenly Edmonton is a wasteland again.

Kuemper was awful last season as a backup and was on his last legs to stay in the league.

Except no, this is fiction. Kuemper had been a solid backup for literally years. Again, if you can't look at his resume/tape and realize the one bad year out of five might have been a fluke, you are a bad GM.

People would have laughed if we had added him last offseason. maybe he could have sent the slow and old Vanek the DVD to show how much better a city Edmonton is than Vancouver.

No, people laughed when Laurent Brossoit showed once again that he was unable to play consistently at the NHL level, and Chiarelli had to surrender a fourth round pick for Al Montoya. That's what they laughed at. I'm sorry that facts aren't your friend.

I'm sure after scoring 2 goals in 20 games for Florida and being a total bust there fans would have been over the moon with the signing, thinking he was the final piece of the puzzle.

Here's the list again, in case you missed it the first time:

2013-14: 59 points
2014-15: 52 points
2015-16: 41 points
2016-17: 48 points

Fans had no need to be "over the moon", but they would have been fine with the fact that Peter Chiarelli had at least attempted to fill the goal scoring hole left by Eberle.

But Chia didn't. He's not a good GM, no matter how hard you push the narrative.

Crying about us not signing these guys is no different than crying about a late round pick that turns out ok for another team.

Yes, crying about a general manager shirking his duties and letting his once-competitive team die on the vine is exactly the same as "crying" about a late round draft pick.

The proof is in the pudding. I'm sorry that you can't accept it.

 

[Soundwave]

Talbot not being the worst starting goalie in the league for 5 months, Klefbom not playing like a #6, one of our five young wingers showing any progression, Benning not regressing to an AHLer, Kassian playing with a purpose, Strome being utilized properly from day 1, having a PK or PP coach who has a clue...a few of those things could have also made a 10 point difference. But you wouldn't want to have to hold players/coaches accountable for their performance this year, would you?

I still see a one line team. It's the McDavid show and three other lines that basically are there so that he can rest a bit.

As long as the Oilers are built that way they are always going to be prone to having a season like this where things collapse. We're seeing this with other teams that are built in a similar way, Calgary collapsing the last 5-6 games, Dallas imploding down the stretch, meanwhile Toronto is cruising even with Matthews hurt.

The difference? The Leafs are deeper upfront and not a one line team.

 

[PatrikOverAuston]

Talbot not being the worst starting goalie in the league for 5 months, Klefbom not playing like a #6, one of our five young wingers showing any progression, Benning not regressing to an AHLer, Kassian playing with a purpose, Strome being utilized properly from day 1, having a PK or PP coach who has a clue...a few of those things could have also made a 10 point difference. But you wouldn't want to have to hold players/coaches accountable for their performance this year, would you?

I absolutely hold coaching accountable for this disaster of a season. They played a large role in it as well.

But just because TMacT is awful at his job does not Chiarelli is not just as bad- if not worse- at his.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Again, if you can't figure out that Thomas Vanek is good for 40-50 points after literally doing it years in a row, you shouldn't be a GM.

Look, I'll help you:

2013-14: 59 points
2014-15: 52 points
2015-16: 41 points
2016-17: 48 points

Based on the above, do you think it was likely he scored over 40 points again, or not likely? If not, why not?



This strangely was not an excuse last summer when Lucic took less money to sign here and the Oilers turned down Jason Demers even after he toured the new rink. Once again, very convenient that suddenly Edmonton is a wasteland again.



Except no, this is fiction. Kuemper had been a solid backup for literally years. Again, if you can't look at his resume/tape and realize the one bad year out of five might have been a fluke, you are a bad GM.



No, people laughed when Laurent Brossoit showed once again that he was unable to play consistently at the NHL level, and Chiarelli had to surrender a fourth round pick for Al Montoya. That's what they laughed at. I'm sorry that facts aren't your friend.



Here's the list again, in case you missed it the first time:

2013-14: 59 points
2014-15: 52 points
2015-16: 41 points
2016-17: 48 points

Fans had no need to be "over the moon", but they would have been fine with the fact that Peter Chiarelli had at least attempted to fill the goal scoring hole left by Eberle.

But Chia didn't. He's not a good GM, no matter how hard you push the narrative.



Yes, crying about a general manager shirking his duties and letting his once-competitive team die on the vine is exactly the same as "crying" about a late round draft pick.

The proof is in the pudding. I'm sorry that you can't accept it.

Cool, so is this NHL 18 where you just give players contracts and they're forced to sign? Maybe Vanek didnt want to sign here.

 

[nabob]

I still see a one line team. It's the McDavid show and three other lines that basically are there so that he can rest a bit.

As long as the Oilers are built that way they are always going to be prone to having a season like this where things collapse. We're seeing this with other teams that are built in a similar way, Calgary collapsing the last 5-6 games, Dallas imploding down the stretch, meanwhile Toronto is cruising even with Matthews hurt.

The difference? The Leafs are deeper upfront and not a one line team.

I would agree. It showed last year in the playoffs. Even a half assed performance by our 2nd line wingers and we make it another round. If we could get a player like Hoffman without giving up Nuge and have continued solid play from Aberg and Rattie I think our forward group, a healthy Dcore and a career average Talbot have us near the top of the West next year.

So many people see Eberle playing better this year, because he is, he's a different player than he was here last year, he's trying, and think he would have done that here. It wasn't going to happen. He wanted out. Strome has been ragged on and unfairly so here this year.

Toronto also has the best coach in the league. We have the no name version of Babcock.

 

[Soundwave]

Cool, so is this NHL 18 where you just give players contracts and they're forced to sign? Maybe Vanek didnt want to sign here.

Dude was sitting until September not having a team to sign with. Chiarelli deserves none of these benefits of the doubt.

It's clear getting taken to the cleaners by Draisaitl's agent basically drained him and his philosophy was to do nothing else for the whole summer.

He was mighty pleased with himself and thought the team didn't need any real changes or help.

 

[PatrikOverAuston]

Cool, so is this NHL 18 where you just give players contracts and they're forced to sign? Maybe Vanek didnt want to sign here.

Once again, it's Peter Chiarelli's job to sell them on the city and the team. If he can't do that- especially when the team who did sign him is in the midst of a rebuild- he's (still) a bad GM.

 

[nabob]

Again, if you can't figure out that Thomas Vanek is good for 40-50 points after literally doing it years in a row, you shouldn't be a GM.

Look, I'll help you:

2013-14: 59 points
2014-15: 52 points
2015-16: 41 points
2016-17: 48 points

Based on the above, do you think it was likely he scored over 40 points again, or not likely? If not, why not?



This strangely was not an excuse last summer when Lucic took less money to sign here and the Oilers turned down Jason Demers even after he toured the new rink. Once again, very convenient that suddenly Edmonton is a wasteland again.



Except no, this is fiction. Kuemper had been a solid backup for literally years. Again, if you can't look at his resume/tape and realize the one bad year out of five might have been a fluke, you are a bad GM.



No, people laughed when Laurent Brossoit showed once again that he was unable to play consistently at the NHL level, and Chiarelli had to surrender a fourth round pick for Al Montoya. That's what they laughed at. I'm sorry that facts aren't your friend.



Here's the list again, in case you missed it the first time:

2013-14: 59 points
2014-15: 52 points
2015-16: 41 points
2016-17: 48 points

Fans had no need to be "over the moon", but they would have been fine with the fact that Peter Chiarelli had at least attempted to fill the goal scoring hole left by Eberle.

But Chia didn't. He's not a good GM, no matter how hard you push the narrative.



Yes, crying about a general manager shirking his duties and letting his once-competitive team die on the vine is exactly the same as "crying" about a late round draft pick.

The proof is in the pudding. I'm sorry that you can't accept it.

Strome has come close to replacing Eberle's goal scoring from last year while being a much much more versatile and steady center for the 3rd line. Losing Eberle has had very very little impact on the outcome of this season. Also the resurgence of Nuge without the Eberle anchor is another factor. He doesn't have to be a defense first player anymore while babysitting a winger who won't engage or backcheck.

 

[nabob]

Once again, it's Peter Chiarelli's job to sell them on the city and the team. If he can't do that- especially when the team who did sign him is in the midst of a rebuild- he's (still) a bad GM.

How happy would fans of been if we released Slepy to sign a player who flopped after the deadline. Fans are shortsighted.

Most were very happy with the Jokenin signing. Thought it was an amazing UFA signing. Who says Vanek wouldn't be a similar flop.

Using hindsight to cherry pick longshot signings is kinda weak.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/firechia.2407629/page-319

You're just repeating the same things that have been said 1000x here.

 

[PatrikOverAuston]

Strome has come close to replacing Eberle's goal scoring from last year while being a much much more versatile and steady center for the 3rd line.

Strome is Letestu's replacement from last year, not Eberle's. To compare them and their roles is disingenuous at best. I repeat: the team flushed a 20+ goal winger down the toilet and didn't add one. That's bad management.

Losing Eberle has had very very little impact on the outcome of this season.

Yeah, except those 50+ goals he contributed to. Otherwise, no, no change at all.

Also the resurgence of Nuge without the Eberle anchor is another factor. He doesn't have to be a defense first player anymore while babysitting a winger who won't engage or backcheck.

Nuge's resurgence is more due to McLellan finally realizing he's a scoring line player, not a shutdown center. There's a reason his offense dropped off the map after TMacT was hired- and it had nothing to do with Eberle, who of course was his linemate even before that.

 

[nabob]

Strome is Letestu's replacement from last year, not Eberle's. To compare them and their roles is disingenuous at best. I repeat: the team flushed a 20+ goal winger down the toilet and didn't add one. That's bad management.



Yeah, except those 50+ goals he contributed to. Otherwise, no, no change at all.



Nuge's resurgence is more due to McLellan finally realizing he's a scoring line player, not a shutdown center. There's a reason his offense dropped off the map after TMacT was hired- and it had nothing to do with Eberle, who of course was his linemate even before that.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/firechia.2407629/page-319

How far down the list of issues with the team is the difference between Eberle and Strome? Seriously? Don't think it's even in the top 10 in issues.

-Talbot
-Klefbom
-Larsson injury/tragedy
-Sekera injury
-LB tanking
-Jokenin not even showing up
-Benning regressing
-Kassian, Slepy, Caggulia all disappointing big time



Puljujarvi was on pace to replace Eberle's goal scoring until he was demoted to 4th line LW.

Great game last night though eh?

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Strome is Letestu's replacement from last year, not Eberle's. To compare them and their roles is disingenuous at best. I repeat: the team flushed a 20+ goal winger down the toilet and didn't add one. That's bad management.



Yeah, except those 50+ goals he contributed to. Otherwise, no, no change at all.



Nuge's resurgence is more due to McLellan finally realizing he's a scoring line player, not a shutdown center. There's a reason his offense dropped off the map after TMacT was hired- and it had nothing to do with Eberle, who of course was his linemate even before that.

The oilers bigger issue was their defense and goaltending this year, they've given up 26 more goals this year than they did last year.