Offseason Thread vol. XII - "Stop filling thread with spam posts" Edition

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Nac Mac Feegle

wee & free
Jun 10, 2011
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Lets see what he and Lehner do next year before extending him.

Also, I mainly said that cause we have 2 other far more important players needed to be pursued instead of soon to be 2nd string goalie.

Agreed. I'm not sure what the team/agent procedure is for signing contracts...but if it were up to me, I'd be buzzing the phone lines 24/7 until the Ryan deal was done...the others could wait.

I dunno....maybe the Ryan camp needs to see the vets signed first (to see what track the team is on) before signing? You know, to show we're not going to run a bare-bones roster, that we are trying to compete.
 

Vesa Awesaka

#KeepTheSenate
Jul 4, 2013
18,236
25
Havent been on here in awhile and dont have time to read through all the posts but has there been any news on the Ryan/Methot/MacA/Anderson front?
 

ReginKarlssonLehner

Let's Win It All
May 3, 2010
40,755
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Dubai Marina
Havent been on here in awhile and dont have time to read through all the posts but has there been any news on the Ryan/Methot/MacA/Anderson front?

Methot talks stalled cause he wants long-term we want short. He's looking around 8 we're probably around 5.

Mac and Ryan going well(past "preliminary stages") but haven't had talks or updates for some time now. For some reason Anderson and team have been in a lot of talks lately.
 

The Fuhr*

Guest
Lets see what he and Lehner do next year before extending him.

Also, I mainly said that cause we have 2 other far more important players needed to be pursued instead of soon to be 2nd string goalie.

Maybe Ryan and MacArthur don't want to sign until the team begins showing it will keep it's talent.
 

Micklebot

Moderator
Apr 27, 2010
53,120
30,340
Maybe Ryan and MacArthur don't want to sign until the team begins showing it will keep it's talent.

Wouldn't signing Ryan and MacArthur constitute showing the team will keep it's talent? I thing we're going into a loop here; Ryan and MacArthur won't sign until we show we'll retain talent, but they're the talent we need to retain.
 

Nac Mac Feegle

wee & free
Jun 10, 2011
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Wouldn't signing Ryan and MacArthur constitute showing the team will keep it's talent? I thing we're going into a loop here; Ryan and MacArthur won't sign until we show we'll retain talent, but they're the talent we need to retain.

The Sens have broken the space time continuum. :scared:
 

Karl Cowensson

I has cheezburger
Oct 27, 2008
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Methot talks stalled cause he wants long-term we want short. He's looking around 8 we're probably around 5.

Mac and Ryan going well(past "preliminary stages") but haven't had talks or updates for some time now. For some reason Anderson and team have been in a lot of talks lately.

I do like Methot, but 8 years is just crazy, I'd walk from that. If it takes an extra half mil a season to get him to agree to a 5-6 year deal fine, but that's the max term you'd reasonably want to keep a defensive Dman around for considering his age. That kind of player usually sees their effectiveness drop dramitically by their mid 30s if they even make it that far.
 

The Fuhr*

Guest
Wouldn't signing Ryan and MacArthur constitute showing the team will keep it's talent? I thing we're going into a loop here; Ryan and MacArthur won't sign until we show we'll retain talent, but they're the talent we need to retain.

Ryan just watched the team move Spezza and Alfredsson walked last year.

I think Ryan would like to see a couple of Methot, Anderson, MacArthur, sign before he commits

Why sign on a cap floor team,
 

StefanW

Registered User
Mar 13, 2013
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Ottawa
www.storiesnumberstell.com
Ryan just watched the team move Spezza and Alfredsson walked last year.

I think Ryan would like to see a couple of Methot, Anderson, MacArthur, sign before he commits

Why sign on a cap floor team,

Possible, but 100% speculation. There is no quote from Ryan anywhere that indicates this is his mind set. Based on what he has said so far he wants to stay here, which means the ongoing discussion is more along term/dollars/clauses. If he want 8 years and the team wants to give him 5 or 6 it could stall negotiations in the exact same way that we are seeing right now.
 

Nets Cash

Registered User
Aug 12, 2014
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0
I'm a bit shocked by those comparisons

Alex Guptill compares to Buddy Robinson? I haven't seen anywhere that Robinson has potential top-line talent, let alone top-6 talent... Just because Guptill is just out of college and is not a very popular player doesn't mean he is crap. I don't put a lot of stock on HF grades, but Robinson is a 6.0 C and Guptill is a 7.0 C.

Last year, Guptill was #11 in HF Stars prospects rankings (Chiasson was 3rd after Nichushkin and Oleksiak). He would have been much higher in their pool this year, just because of graduations and natural progression, as well as others regressing (example Faksa). Another thing to note is that the Dallas pool is ranked 9th on HF while the Sens pool is ranked #19 actually (not that I put a lot of stock in that but in case some do)

Buddy Robinson was just voted our 22nd best prospect, who is also almost 1 year older than Guptill who take the long College route and just turned pro (only 5 AHL games). I would wait to see what he des at the pro level before comparing them

Now David Dziurzynski, who will turn 25 y/o when the season begins... How does he compare to Nick Paul who was a 2013's draftee and just turned 19 y/o? And Paul was a 4th round pick. He has upgraded his value tremendously this year, going from a 28 pts (12 goals) season to a 46 pts season (26 goals). But that's not where he made the most noise. He had an excellent playoffs run with North Bay, scoring 12 goals and 18 points in 22 games as well as leading his team to become the Eastern Conference Champions. Not only that, he did make even more noise in Team Canada's World Junior Camp. Have you ever heard of the term "late riser"? That might be the case with Paul

David Dziurzynski was voted our #26th best prospect last year, last time he was eligible to be a prospect. Paul was voted #16th on our pool not long ago, despite not many knowing him and that our pool is better and deeper that HF is making it seem.


Finally, in relation to the first quote.

Greening + Robinson + Dziurzynski + 2nd

vs

Chiasson + Guptill + Paul + 2nd

Every single of the 3 first Dallas pieces is much better than what you are saying in comparison and it's not even close. Also, Greening's actual value on this board is biased. He had a bad season and he is about to earn much more money. Before extending, he had quite some value in people's eyes (so you're right saying a few years ago). Chiasson in comparison had a solid rookie season (not playing on a 1st line with Spezza and Michalek in a career year) and has been in Dallas top-5 prospects (regarded as high as Brett Ritchie is now) for a few years, while Greening was a 7th round pick and came out of nowhere. And there's also that ability thing, which is not even close in Chiasson's favor

For anything, Spezza could score 27 pts in 36 games and be injured all year, and then sign a contract with another team on July 1st... Then stupid HF will declare the Sens clear-cut winners of this deal? We only lost 1 year of Spezza.

So what do you prefer :

Spezza plays one more year in Ottawa in a non-contending season

or

We get 1 present and 3 future assets AND the budget space to sign David Legwand to a sweetheart 2 years deal


That is the right question to ask, and forget "we could have traded Spezza at the deadline"... He could have simply been injured or the Sens too close to the playoffs to trade him

Come on man, it's not that far off... Not enough to warrant to get into such a puckersnatch.

I pulled the comparison out of my butt without any research, not bad if you ask me. You base almost all of your assumptions on HF rankings and polls (and also insulted the very HF posters who vote in those polls). Just because you Hockey News bio'd, checked a few hockey's future ratings, made a bunch of annoying poll threads and maybe looked at a youtube or two since the trade went down doesn't make you an expert.
 

Nac Mac Feegle

wee & free
Jun 10, 2011
34,828
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Possible, but 100% speculation. There is no quote from Ryan anywhere that indicates this is his mind set. Based on what he has said so far he wants to stay here, which means the ongoing discussion is more along term/dollars/clauses. If he want 8 years and the team wants to give him 5 or 6 it could stall negotiations in the exact same way that we are seeing right now.

Ryan is one of the few players I'd give an 8-year deal. Reason being, goal scorers are always a good commodity to have, and if things don't work out, a guy who still has more than 2 seasons under contract will command decent value in a trade. We know the team that shall not be named loves Bobby and would love to bring him home...if he doesn't want to be here in 2-3 years and still has a good 5 years left on a deal, there's no excuses not to get a kings ransom. And that is the worst case scenario.

Best case scenario the kid turns out to be a 50-goal scorer with Erik and Turris giving him a bunch of sweet feeds for a number of years with us and is a key figure bringing a Cup back home.
 

derriko

Registered User
Mar 7, 2009
4,615
446
Las Vegas
I'm a bit shocked by those comparisons

Alex Guptill compares to Buddy Robinson? I haven't seen anywhere that Robinson has potential top-line talent, let alone top-6 talent.

Finally, in relation to the first quote.
Greening + Robinson + Dziurzynski + 2nd
vs
Chiasson + Guptill + Paul + 2nd

Every single of the 3 first Dallas pieces is much better than what you are saying in comparison and it's not even close.

I said comparitive value, not upside or play style. What edge Guptill has in skill is negated by Buddy's physical traits. Also, Guptill has well known attitude issues, which I think is probably the biggest negative you can have when you are a fringe NHL'er. I think they both may get a cup of coffee in the big leagues, but never make it so its a wash.

Dizzy vs Paul - they actually are pretty similar. Trade a little bit of defense for a little bit of physicality, and you got a potential 4th liner at best. Not a bad thing as those players are needed, but both don't have much value.

Chiasson >> Greening. I see Chiasson carving out a non-Tavares paired like Moulson career. A guy that goes to the net and scores the dirty goals. A good second line scorer.

I do agree with your logic on the need for the trade, though that has been discussed ad nauseam.
 

ChocolateLeclaire

Registered User
Jan 12, 2010
12,042
2
Ottawa, Canada
Come on man, it's not that far off... Not enough to warrant to get into such a puckersnatch.

I pulled the comparison out of my butt without any research, not bad if you ask me. You base almost all of your assumptions on HF rankings and polls (and also insulted the very HF posters who vote in those polls). Just because you Hockey News bio'd, checked a few hockey's future ratings, made a bunch of annoying poll threads and maybe looked at a youtube or two since the trade went down doesn't make you an expert.

Why don't you accept your comparison was baseless instead of whining about how everyone is poking holes in it?
 
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ChocolateLeclaire

Registered User
Jan 12, 2010
12,042
2
Ottawa, Canada
Possible, but 100% speculation. There is no quote from Ryan anywhere that indicates this is his mind set. Based on what he has said so far he wants to stay here, which means the ongoing discussion is more along term/dollars/clauses. If he want 8 years and the team wants to give him 5 or 6 it could stall negotiations in the exact same way that we are seeing right now.

It might be a personal decision for Ryan. From following him on twitter, him and Methot seem to be really good friends. Maybe he signs after Methot does.
 

Benjamin

Differently Financed
Jun 14, 2010
31,118
438
yes
Come on man, it's not that far off... Not enough to warrant to get into such a puckersnatch.

I pulled the comparison out of my butt without any research, not bad if you ask me. You base almost all of your assumptions on HF rankings and polls (and also insulted the very HF posters who vote in those polls). Just because you Hockey News bio'd, checked a few hockey's future ratings, made a bunch of annoying poll threads and maybe looked at a youtube or two since the trade went down doesn't make you an expert.

You made a brutal comparison. It warranted that response from Xspyrit.
 

Cosmix

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Jul 24, 2011
17,797
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Ottawa
I wonder how the negotiations with Ryan is coming along?

The Senators regular season does not start until October 9 and training camp starts on or about September 19, so there is still plenty of time to complete negotiations by then. The last report was that negotiations started and were productive. That could mean anything, however i think it means they are exchanging views on term and dollars. It has been about a week or so since we heard anything.
:)
 

Xspyrit

DJ Dorion
Jun 29, 2008
30,703
9,650
Montreal, Canada
People keep talking about Alfredsson like it was a big loss. Sure, for his legacy and leadership/experience, it was a big loss but the dude is 42 y/o. Might not be healthy enough to play in the NHL this season. Can we just move on lol?

Also, concerning Spezza, reading the number of heavy critics around here when he was in his 20's making 4.5 to 7.0 per year, what would it have been in his 30's making most likely 8.0 per?

We had 2 choices regarding Spezza. Extend him to a gigantic contract or trade him. He might have helped up dodged another bullet long-term by wanting a change of scenery.

Personally, I have been a big Alfie/Spezza fan but I'm not even mad to finally see a new era starting over. It's time for new figures to shine. It's a great thing to move on in life.

Come on man, it's not that far off... Not enough to warrant to get into such a puckersnatch.

I pulled the comparison out of my butt without any research, not bad if you ask me. You base almost all of your assumptions on HF rankings and polls (and also insulted the very HF posters who vote in those polls). Just because you Hockey News bio'd, checked a few hockey's future ratings, made a bunch of annoying poll threads and maybe looked at a youtube or two since the trade went down doesn't make you an expert.

I did not insult anyone. I actually put more stock in fans voting their own prospect pools than the (1 blogger) HF Rankings and grades. Stupid HF is more the overall perceptions and misconceptions going around HF about certain things. Can't explain everything in 1 post. You have 4 posts, with time you'll make your own conclusions.

I have no idea what a puckersnatch is and I won't bother. As you said, you pulled the comparison out of your butt and that's exactly what it is worth.

An important thing I base myself on, outside of everything else you mentioned, is pure hockey ability. And in that aspect :

Chiasson + Guptill + Paul >>>>>>>>>>>>> Greening + Robinson + Dziurzynski

You really think it's not far off? In that case, why are we even discussing hockey if there's no need to be a bit more accurate?

Crosby = Toews (it's not that far off), then Toews = Duchene (not that far off), then Duchene = Turris (not that far off).

Conclusion, I could say that Turris is not that far off Crosby, and it wouldn't be worth it to get into such a puckersnatch if I proclaim in on the main boards.

I'm not saying I'm an expert (actually very far compared to what many HFBoarders think they are) but I do try and gather info, viewings, observations, quotes, etc to have a better idea of the NHL players and prospects. I also have a vast playing and viewing hockey experience which give me a little bit of ability for the eye test.

So, I'm really sorry if I took some time to discuss hockey with you.

And my question remains, what do you prefer :

a) Spezza plays one more year in Ottawa in a non-contending season

or

b) We get 1 present and 3 future assets AND the budget space to sign David Legwand to a sweetheart 2 years deal

I said comparitive value, not upside or play style. What edge Guptill has in skill is negated by Buddy's physical traits. Also, Guptill has well known attitude issues, which I think is probably the biggest negative you can have when you are a fringe NHL'er. I think they both may get a cup of coffee in the big leagues, but never make it so its a wash.

Ya and that's the biggest reason why he is not viewed as a top prospect and that we have been able to get him in that deal. If that changes (Luke Richardson will be a big factor), we might have a gem in our hands. Buddy might get a cup of coffee as a 4th line energy guy, I'm not that high on him.

Dizzy vs Paul - they actually are pretty similar. Trade a little bit of defense for a little bit of physicality, and you got a potential 4th liner at best. Not a bad thing as those players are needed, but both don't have much value.

Yeah, they're very similar, but DD is also 5,5 years older.

Nick Paul just turned 19 y/o (can't even play in the AHL) and has all the signs of a late bloomer. The fact that they really wanted him included in the deal is another good sign. At this point, we have no idea what this guy can become, but a very good 2nd/3rd line tweener with a great package of size/skill may not be out of the equation. DD might never play another NHL game. Great he his cup of coffee already.

Pretty weak comparisons IMO, but we all have our opinions it's ok. I'm curious to review this in 4-5 years.
 

Do Make Say Think

& Yet & Yet
Jun 26, 2007
51,157
9,904
We heard about things going a bit sideways with Methot

No news is good news on the Ryan front as far as I'm concerned
 

BigRig4

Registered User
Feb 22, 2014
3,037
1,049
We heard about things going a bit sideways with Methot

No news is good news on the Ryan front as far as I'm concerned

I don't know if I even buy that Methot news until Garrioch mentions it.

Why do you think no news is good news for Bobby? Not disagreeing just curious.
 

Karlsson2Turris*

Guest
I don't know if I even buy that Methot news until Garrioch mentions it.

Why do you think no news is good news for Bobby? Not disagreeing just curious.

I'm guessing because when a star player usually wants out of Ottawa, it gets leaked fast.
 

ReginKarlssonLehner

Let's Win It All
May 3, 2010
40,755
11,055
Dubai Marina
That's like us giving up Greening a few years ago, Buddy Robinson, David Dziurzynski and a 2nd for a player of Spezza's calibre.

I gotta disagree with this. Yeah Paul and Guptill are of similar value to Dizzy and Buddy, but Chiasson's ceiling is much, much higher than that of Greenings.

I said comparitive value, not upside or play style. What edge Guptill has in skill is negated by Buddy's physical traits. Also, Guptill has well known attitude issues, which I think is probably the biggest negative you can have when you are a fringe NHL'er. I think they both may get a cup of coffee in the big leagues, but never make it so its a wash.

Dizzy vs Paul - they actually are pretty similar. Trade a little bit of defense for a little bit of physicality, and you got a potential 4th liner at best. Not a bad thing as those players are needed, but both don't have much value.

W...w....what?

Bros, do you know who these players are?

I'm not gonna touch Greening vs Chiasson cause that's absolutely absurd. At least Derriko perfectly answered that comparison.

As for Buddy vs Guptill. Almost every scouting report says he has first line NHL talent. He has the hands, the skills, the physical play, the speed and the ability to be a top 6 winger. He has shown wayyyy more than Buddy. Btw, Buddy is anything BUT physical. The guy is a 6'5 pillow. Guptill could very well be nobody and Robinson still has potential but how is Guptil fringe NHLer when he hasn't even shown what he can in the pros yet? Guptill now is considerably more valuable than Robinson cause of Guptill's stronger toolset and skills that could translate better in NHL.

Dizzy for Paul, lol.

Ok say those guys ARE similar. Losing Spezza is addition by subtraction. I don't care who we got back. We could have gotten great value but that's not how things worked out. Everyone realized there was better options and Spezza vetoed a great trade with Nashville cause he himself knows he sucks won't go anywhere as the primary offensive weapon. Even though that's a stupid decision cause they have top 3 D and top 3 G in the game.

Move along, folks.
 
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