Offseason Talk Part III

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CBJWerenski8

Formerly CBJWennberg10 (RIP Kivi)
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Which is why I think it'll get done by the end of the month at the latest. This isn't anywhere near "ugly" status

It's not ugly I agree. But it's quickly approaching that.

Torts threatens Anderson with "If you're not here you could lose your spot." Jarmo says it would be a "big big mistake" to not report to camp.

Anderson's camp threatens to skate in Switzerland. Doesn't report to camp. Agent comes out and says the Jackets aren't being fair.

It feels like a snowball going in the wrong direction. Not quite Johansen level toxic but it's not good.
 

CBJWerenski8

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Can always count on you with this, now Wenberg10's turn "JArmo is always bad with negotiations".
Ferris has a history...

If you're going to quote someone get the quote right. Don't put words in my mouth.
 

JohnnyJacket13

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It's not ugly I agree. But it's quickly approaching that.

Torts threatens Anderson with "If you're not here you could lose your spot." Jarmo says it would be a "big big mistake" to not report to camp.

Anderson's camp threatens to skate in Switzerland. Doesn't report to camp. Agent comes out and says the Jackets aren't being fair.

It feels like a snowball going in the wrong direction. Not quite Johansen level toxic but it's not good.

You're taking what Torts said all out of context. He mentioned it's healthy...there are other players (Abramov and Milano) eager to claim a spot. He even said that WASN'T a threat to Anderson. It's just healthy competition and a state of where this club is at in terms of its depth. But ofcourse you're taking the worst case scenario stance on this.
 

CBJWerenski8

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You're taking what Torts said all out of context. He mentioned it's healthy...there are other players (Abramov and Milano) eager to claim a spot. He even said that WASN'T a threat to Anderson. It's just healthy competition and a state of where this club is at in terms of its depth. But ofcourse you're taking the worst case scenario stance on this.

Torts tried to paint the threat as something that would have naturally happened even with Anderson in camp. But we all know that's not actually the case. Of course he is going to say its not a threat, they want him in camp. They did the same thing to Johansen during his negotiations, as they frequently attacked the agent, not the player.

No, it's being real. If you actually think Anderson could lose his job to Milano or Abramov then I don't know what to tell you.
 

Kev22

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So I'm guessing the Jackets offered 1.5M and Anderson's agent feels he's worth 2.5M. Solution seems simple. But this could be over term too. He saw Wennberg get a six year deal, maybe he wants one too. This all seems ridiculous for a third line winger, granted with potential for more. Sounds like some hyperbole on the part of Anderson's agent trying to paint the Jackets as unfair, but I guess we'll see.

I think Anderson is a big piece of the future here, but if he and his camp want to play the primadonna card, and things get contentious, there's a certain center in Colorado that could use a new home and Anderson would be a pretty nice piece to send in return.
 

Xoggz22

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Anderson has "Bridge Deal" written all over it. At this point a 1 year deal may be part of the equation. I still suspect it will be 2 years and close to what Brown got. He's a part of the core and a long term piece. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water. Just need to get to a point where Anderson himself recognizes he's losing ground and a possible spot in the top 9.
 

KJ Dangler

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Torts tried to paint the threat as something that would have naturally happened even with Anderson in camp. But we all know that's not actually the case. Of course he is going to say its not a threat, they want him in camp. They did the same thing to Johansen during his negotiations, as they frequently attacked the agent, not the player.

No, it's being real. If you actually think Anderson could lose his job to Milano or Abramov then I don't know what to tell you.

Honestly, I could absolutely see Abramov make the team, and if Anderson, and his agent want to play hardball, it could result in him being traded. Reading the other thread from the Traverse tourney, Corey Pronan felt that it may be time to ask if Abramov, not Pld , is our top prospect. He said Vitaly was the best player in the tournament. Knowing that he cant be sent to Cleveland, will be interesting to see how it plays out .
 

Iron Balls McGinty

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Torts tried to paint the threat as something that would have naturally happened even with Anderson in camp. But we all know that's not actually the case. Of course he is going to say its not a threat, they want him in camp. They did the same thing to Johansen during his negotiations, as they frequently attacked the agent, not the player.

No, it's being real. If you actually think Anderson could lose his job to Milano or Abramov then I don't know what to tell you.

It's easy to lose a job on a team if you aren't there to lay claim to it.
 

CBJfan4evr

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So I'm guessing the Jackets offered 1.5M and Anderson's agent feels he's worth 2.5M. Solution seems simple. But this could be over term too. He saw Wennberg get a six year deal, maybe he wants one too. This all seems ridiculous for a third line winger, granted with potential for more. Sounds like some hyperbole on the part of Anderson's agent trying to paint the Jackets as unfair, but I guess we'll see.

I think Anderson is a big piece of the future here, but if he and his camp want to play the primadonna card, and things get contentious, there's a certain center in Colorado that could use a new home and Anderson would be a pretty nice piece to send in return.

If the diff between the offer and ask are "vast" something tells me the ask is well north of 2.5m looking at recent signees an offer is likely close to 2 and the ask is likely closer to 3. Only Athanasiou, and Anderson remain. Detroit has cap issues so that one will be difficult to resolve. Anderson and his agent trying to value him as a top 6 winger which at this point he is not. This is not going to end well.

RFA signing timetable is pretty wide.

Signings from this YEAR of 2017 at Anderson age range:

1. June 28th, Sven Andrighetto, COL, 1.400M
2. July 6th, Brett Ritchie, DAL, 1.750M
3. July 8th, Johan Larsson, BUF, 1.475M
4. July 10th, Radek Faksa, DAL, 2.200M
5. July 22nd, Jordan Martinook, ARI, 1.800M
6. August 17th, Zemgus Girgensons, BUF, 1.600M
7. August 26th, Connor Brown, TOR, 2.100M
8. September 15th, Nikita Zadorov, Col, 2.15

RFA guys still unsigned at Anderson age range
Andreas Athanasiou, DET
Josh Anderson, CBJ


Last year Tobias Rieder was the latest RFA to sign, on October 3rd.
 

Johnny Jacket

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A penny wise, two-hundred and twenty pounds foolish.

Nothing like trading a blossoming power forward the summer before he busts out, and when he's unsigned so his value is extra low. But congratulations you saved $200k and look like a real hardass!

200 - 500k on this contract and every other contract next year and the next and the next etc. adds up. I'm fair but firm. Players and their harebrained agents must learn that homey doesn't play.

I want Duchene and I know I have to give up something of value. Keeping Jenner and giving up a blossoming power forward the summer before he busts out just might be the added value needed to seal the deal. :nod:
 

major major

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200 - 500k on this contract and every other contract next year and the next and the next etc. adds up. I'm fair but firm. Players and their harebrained agents must learn that homey doesn't play.

I want Duchene and I know I have to give up something of value. Keeping Jenner and giving up a blossoming power forward the summer before he busts out just might be the added value needed to seal the deal. :nod:

That's the problem - Anderson's value is lower because he is unsigned. And much lower because he's got so few minutes to date. Sign him and give him scorer's minutes, watch him score 25 goals, and his value will go up enormously. Harebrained is trading Josh Anderson now.
 

MoeBartoli

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Andy brings a valuable attribute set to this team. He's got size and speed, decent puck skills, an ability to score several ways, and a willingness to drop the gloves when needed. Granted we have a limited sample size which screams bridge deal. If he repeats his hard play and production (which was pretty good relative to minutes played) or better yet improves, I think he is more valuable and brings more dimension than Jenner ($2.9M) And if he were on the left side, some choices for me would be easier. A two year bridge at $2.0-2.25M isn't unreasonable and could prove exceptional. The upside exceeds the downside.
 

Mayor Bee

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Andy brings a valuable attribute set to this team. He's got size and speed, decent puck skills, an ability to score several ways, and a willingness to drop the gloves when needed. Granted we have a limited sample size which screams bridge deal. If he repeats his hard play and production (which was pretty good relative to minutes played) or better yet improves, I think he is more valuable and brings more dimension than Jenner ($2.9M) And if he were on the left side, some choices for me would be easier. A two year bridge at $2.0-2.25M isn't unreasonable and could prove exceptional. The upside exceeds the downside.

The downside exceeds the upside, because it would both shift the salary scale and it would then create a perception among agents that all they have to do with this front office is wait things out and they'll get what they want.

Let me ask you this. If the houses in your neighborhood were all valued at $250K, and someone who was selling theirs jumped on the first offer they received and it was for $190K, would you be happy with them? It would have the same effect: the market shifts against you because of a foolish and impulsive decision on the part of one person.
 

major major

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Signing him at $2.0-2.2m isn't shifting anyone's salary scale - it's what Connor Brown (20g) got, not what 10 goal guys get after ELC. We've been calling Brown the closest comparable since the season ended.

If some agent goes to Jarmo in the future and says "how come my guy doesn't get that $2m like Anderson did?", all Jarmo has to say is "Was your guy third on the team in even strength goals? No? Then **** off."
 

Mayor Bee

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Signing him at $2.0-2.2m isn't shifting anyone's salary scale - it's what Connor Brown (20g) got, not what 10 goal guys get after ELC. We've been calling Brown the closest comparable since the season ended.

If some agent goes to Jarmo in the future and says "how come my guy doesn't get that $2m like Anderson did?", all Jarmo has to say is "Was your guy third on the team in even strength goals? No? Then **** off."

Brown got $2.1 mil on a three-year deal. The other comp in the Brown/Anderson camp would probably be Sam Bennett, who got $1.95 mil on a two-year deal. Brett Ritchie could probably go in there too, and he got $1.75 mil on a two-year deal.
 

MoeBartoli

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Brown got $2.1 mil on a three-year deal. The other comp in the Brown/Anderson camp would probably be Sam Bennett, who got $1.95 mil on a two-year deal. Brett Ritchie could probably go in there too, and he got $1.75 mil on a two-year deal.

Brown is a fair comparable, noting he benefitted from occasional minutes with Matthews. That the other two - both no more than weak third/better fourth liners- got the money they did actually further justifies what I suggested as fair for Anderson.
 
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https://theathletic.com/103559/2017...ue-jackets-ryan-murray-seeks-to-elevate-play/

Tortorella acknowledged on Saturday that he was hard on Murray last season. When the defensive pairs got settled, and his playing time dwindled, Murray seemed to get demoralized, not motivated.

“(Murray) should be looking to try and get into the top four,†Tortorella said on Saturday. “I wouldn’t be banging away at it if I didn’t think he could do that.

“I’ve told you guys (the media) many times, I think I’ve hurt players in the past because I've asked them to do things they just aren’t capable of doing. With Murr, I think there’s so much there. But eventually the player … it can’t be me trying to squeeze it out of him. A veteran player has to say, ‘You know what, I’m going to show you!’ I think Murr is at that pint, I really do. I hope he is.â€
 

CBJWerenski8

Formerly CBJWennberg10 (RIP Kivi)
Jun 13, 2009
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There's been alot of talk about Milano today, I'm starting to think he may make the club. Or he's trade bait.

https://theathletic.com/103559/2017...ue-jackets-ryan-murray-seeks-to-elevate-play/

Tortorella acknowledged on Saturday that he was hard on Murray last season. When the defensive pairs got settled, and his playing time dwindled, Murray seemed to get demoralized, not motivated.

“(Murray) should be looking to try and get into the top four,†Tortorella said on Saturday. “I wouldn’t be banging away at it if I didn’t think he could do that.

“I’ve told you guys (the media) many times, I think I’ve hurt players in the past because I've asked them to do things they just aren’t capable of doing. With Murr, I think there’s so much there. But eventually the player … it can’t be me trying to squeeze it out of him. A veteran player has to say, ‘You know what, I’m going to show you!’ I think Murr is at that point, I really do. I hope he is.â€

Murray also said he thought "there was no way in hell" he'd be back in Columbus after last season.
 
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The downside exceeds the upside, because it would both shift the salary scale and it would then create a perception among agents that all they have to do with this front office is wait things out and they'll get what they want.

Let me ask you this. If the houses in your neighborhood were all valued at $250K, and someone who was selling theirs jumped on the first offer they received and it was for $190K, would you be happy with them? It would have the same effect: the market shifts against you because of a foolish and impulsive decision on the part of one person.

Signing him at $2.0-2.2m isn't shifting anyone's salary scale - it's what Connor Brown (20g) got, not what 10 goal guys get after ELC. We've been calling Brown the closest comparable since the season ended.

If some agent goes to Jarmo in the future and says "how come my guy doesn't get that $2m like Anderson did?", all Jarmo has to say is "Was your guy third on the team in even strength goals? No? Then **** off."

Brown got $2.1 mil on a three-year deal. The other comp in the Brown/Anderson camp would probably be Sam Bennett, who got $1.95 mil on a two-year deal. Brett Ritchie could probably go in there too, and he got $1.75 mil on a two-year deal.

Brown is a fair comparable, noting he benefitted from occasional minutes with Matthews. That the other two - both no more than weak third/better fourth liners- got the money they did actually further justifies what I suggested as fair for Anderson.

Here's the flaw in all of this argument. What did Jarmo offer? What was the ask? How do we know? It's easy to criticize both the FO and the player's agent when you get to hallucinate the negotiations.
 

MAHJ71

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Portzline saying things are going downhill fast. I find it hard to believe the FO would low ball him so much that he'd be unsigned this late. Which has me in the camp that Anderson & Ferris are asking for too much.
 

Mayor Bee

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Here's the flaw in all of this argument. What did Jarmo offer? What was the ask? How do we know? It's easy to criticize both the FO and the player's agent when you get to hallucinate the negotiations.

One side has a history of acrimonious negotiations, the other does not have a history of lowballing players. Ferris is the agent for the only two remaining RFAs, and he had an acrimonious one involving Tobias Rieder just one year ago that saw him as the last RFA to sign.

This appears to be straight out of the Bob Goodenow playbook: be ridiculous until the eleventh hour to see if the other side caves, then sign anyway with no actual benefit having been realized except for keeping a player out of camp.

Portzline saying things are going downhill fast. I find it hard to believe the FO would low ball him so much that he'd be unsigned this late. Which has me in the camp that Anderson & Ferris are asking for too much.

Especially since the assistant GM is a former agent and someone who knows how this all goes from both sides of the table.
 

Iron Balls McGinty

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Last year Tobias Rieder was the latest RFA to sign, on October 3rd.

Just to point out in Rieder's situation, his contract was a 2 year deal for 2.25 cap hit and he had 2 years of NHL experience under his belt. A smaller guy with similar numbers. This deal shouldn't be so hard.
 
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