Speculation: Offseason Roster Building Thread 3 - No draft trades? We're all gonna die

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Roboturner913

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Leafs fan here. I'm not too familiar with your DMEN (both pro and prospects). I am very high on Kapanen. I think, with top-9 minutes, he will easily get 20-20 next year. I think his ceiling is a poor man's Hossa (30-30 with great D). He's also far more physical and gritty than I had expected. Finally, his skating is elite. He is our best skater, even better than Nylander.

Which of your D would be equivalent value for Kapanen?

Probably Fleury. I've advocated for a Fleury-Kapanen trade more than once - but I think the Leafs are smart to sit on Kapanen. That forward group looks crowded at the moment but it won't be next year when JVR/Bozak/Komarov and a few more all are UFA. And it seems like the Canes are high enough on Fleury to pencil him into next season's lineup already so they're obviously not looking to deal him, either.
 

JustJoe2k5

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Hot new rumor is that Hossa's contract, packaged with a draft pick and prospect, could be on the way to Carolina for a depth defenseman (???).

At this point, I wouldn't discount any rumors of a deal between the Blackhawks and Hurricanes.
 

MinJaBen

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Hot new rumor is that Hossa's contract, packaged with a draft pick and prospect, could be on the way to Carolina for a depth defenseman (???).

At this point, I wouldn't discount any rumors of a deal between the Blackhawks and Hurricanes.

He's under contract for another four more seasons. Cash outlay is $1M per season, but the cap hit is $5.25M per season. It might work, but we are going to be adding a bunch more higher value contracts over those four years. If we do it, I'd be asking for a 1st and DeBrincat to hold that cap for that period of time and pay $4M in useless salary.
 

A Star is Burns

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I feel like I'd want a better pick or prospect than they have to offer to get them out of that contract.
 
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I dont think it`s worth it to take that contract- maybe if we can make playoffs this year, Karmanos could spend a bit and we could be a cap team, and this cap hit would hold us down (just dreaming here)
 

Roboturner913

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If the prospect is Hartman or Schmaltz, sure thing, let's do this.

I dont think it`s worth it to take that contract- maybe if we can make playoffs this year, Karmanos could spend a bit and we could be a cap team, and this cap hit would hold us down (just dreaming here)

Hossa's cap hit is 5.275 million. We're at 58 right now, call it 60 million when Fleury and PDG or rookie forward is added to the roster. Deadline cap space is $80 milliion. So we'd still have 15ish million for deadline acquisitions.
 
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If the prospect is Hartman or Schmaltz, sure thing, let's do this.



Hossa's cap hit is 5.275 million. We're at 58 right now, call it 60 million when Fleury and PDG or rookie forward is added to the roster. Deadline cap space is $80 milliion. So we'd still have 15ish million for deadline acquisitions.
I was more thinking ahead for season after next and so on, when we will need to extend our RFA`s.
 

Lempo

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I was more thinking ahead for season after next and so on, when we will need to extend our RFA`s.

He's supposed to be on the LTIR and we'd get to exceed the cap limit accordingly to accommodate for his substitution in the roster. But it's a hassle, and I don't feel like importing other people's problems, especially with the cap risk associated with his status if there's a hiccup with the setup.
 
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He's supposed to be on the LTIR and we'd get to exceed the cap limit accordingly to accommodate for his substitution in the roster. But it's a hassle, and I don't feel like importing other people's problems, especially with the cap risk associated with his status if there's a hiccup with the setup.
But isnt that only for this season? As much as I heard, he is supposed to come back after one year break (knowing Hawks, it will not happen because of cap reasons lol )?
 

Roboturner913

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If he officially retired what would the cap hit be?

4.275 million x 4 years - and while that seems like a lot, this team never spends to the cap anyway, and Ward/Lack/Wisniewski come off the books next year for 5.675 million in savings.

So really, the question is, do you think the prospects/picks Chicago sends us are worth the $4 million in actual money that would be paid to Hossa to fulfill his contract. I think there's a pretty solid chance if that prospect was Hartmann or Schmaltz it would be worth that.

Of course there's always the chance that Hossa might get the itch to play again after being traded, if'n ya know whut i'm sayin. In which case, his actual salary would be only $1 million.
 
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Lempo

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But isnt that only for this season? As much as I heard, he is supposed to come back after one year break (knowing Hawks, it will not happen because of cap reasons lol )?

Well obviously I would not presume, with my total lack of medical expertise, to override an actual diagnose by an actual doctor, but: the timing of his ailment acting up sure seems to correspond to the one they started predicting from the moment they saw his contract structure back in July 2009.

He's not feeling like million dollars.
 

geehaad

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It was my understanding from CHI fans that CHI would be on the hook for that money if he retired. They were saying as much in response to proposals that Hossa be traded, that they couldn't take the risk.
 

Lempo

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It was my understanding from CHI fans that CHI would be on the hook for that money if he retired. They were saying as much in response to proposals that Hossa be traded, that they couldn't take the risk.

4 am is not the time to be reading the Article 50 of the CBA, but to me it really looks like that the Cap Advantage Recapture hits specifically the team which got the Cap Advantage in the first place, except the one who traded the Contract away prior the CBA 2013 going into force.

[FIELDSET="CBA 50.5(d)(ii)(B)"]For any period during which the Player under a Long-Term Contract is no longer playing in the League during the term of that Long-Term Contract by reason of retirement, "defection" from the NHL or otherwise (but not death) (such that he is not playing and is not receiving Salary pursuant to that Long-Term Contract), an amount attributable to that Player shall nonetheless continue to be included in his Club's Averaged Club Salary as described below.

(1) Upon that Player's failure to play in the League by reason
of retirement, "defection" from the NHL or otherwise (but
not death) (such that he is not playing and is not receiving
Salary pursuant to his Long-Term Contract) (assuming it is
prior to the conclusion of the Long-Term Contract), the
difference between the sum of the Actual Salary and
Bonuses received by that Player under that SPC and the
sum of the Averaged Amounts charged against the Club's
Averaged Club Salary under that SPC shall be calculated as
follows:
(i) First, calculate the total Actual Salary and
Bonuses paid to that Player under that SPC ("Total
Payment") until the date of such retirement, defection or
otherwise (but not death);
(ii) Second, calculate the total Averaged
Amount charged against the Club's Averaged Club Salary
for the Player under that SPC ("Total Cap Charge") until
the date of such retirement, defection or otherwise (but not
death);
(iii) Subtract Total Cap Charge from Total
Payment. That number shall be referred to as the "Cap
Advantage Recapture."
(iv) The Cap Advantage Recapture shall be
charged against the Club's Averaged Club Salary in equal
proportions in each League Year over the remaining term
of the SPC (i.e., the yearly charge shall be calculated by
dividing the Cap Advantage Recapture by the number of
seasons remaining under that SPC).[/FIELDSET]

[FIELDSET="CBA 50.5(d)(ii)(B)(2)"]Notwithstanding the provisions of Sections 50.5(d)(ii)(A) and (B), in the event that any such Long-Term Contract is Assigned during its term, each Club for which the Player plays under the terms of that Long-Term Contract shall be subject to being charged with any and all "Cap Advantage Recapture" amounts it receives pursuant to that Long-Term Contract, provided, however, that if a Club Traded a Long-Term Contract prior to the execution of this Agreement (including any binding Memorandum of Understanding) under which it gained a "cap advantage," the "Cap Advantage Recapture" shall not apply to that Club for that Long-Term Contract. For purposes of clarity, the Club to whom such Long-Term Contract was Assigned after the execution of this Agreement (including any binding Memorandum of Understanding) shall be subject to the Cap Advantage Recapture (if any).[/FIELDSET]
 

Lempo

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So, math practice if Hossa was to retire now after 8th year of his 12 year SPC:

(i) Total Payment in 8 years: $59.3M
(ii) Total Cap Charge in 8 years: $42.2M
(iii) Cap Advantage Recapture: $17.1M
(iv) Yearly Charge against Blackhawks Cap for each remaining year: $4.275M

"Long-Term Contract" is any contract in excess of 6 years, btw.
 
Jun 21, 2016
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Well obviously I would not presume, with my total lack of medical expertise, to override an actual diagnose by an actual doctor, but: the timing of his ailment acting up sure seems to correspond to the one they started predicting from the moment they saw his contract structure back in July 2009.

He's not feeling like million dollars.
lol I know about that
Well, maybe we can take that contract for something very good in return, I cant decide if I want to take it or not
 

CalUK

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The Hossa contract just seems too long to take on this time. It's been fine before but all those contracts were far shorter term.
 

Lempo

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Where did this rumour come from? I don't see it anywhere. Just curious.

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"ALL the Blackhawks!"
 

Svechhammer

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4.275 million x 4 years - and while that seems like a lot, this team never spends to the cap anyway

We don't spend to the Cap because we really haven't had a reason to spend to the Cap since it was implemented. The closest we came was in the early Semin years, and we pushed the Cap hard, but then we realized we just weren't going to be good, and we backed way off to go through a legit rebuild.

This team has potential, and I don't think we're going to let it slide because we're not willing to pay to reap the rewards of what we've grown. If anything, Karmanos might see this as an opportunity to spend money to make money, knowing that people will flock to see a team that is successful for long stretches of time, something we've never had with the Canes, but looks to be possible if not likely with the current core we have.
 

GoldiFox

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All of the trade chatter has been around Duchene, but I wonder what is going to shake out of this Tavares situation. If Tavares isn't signed soon then the trade rumors will begin to flow. Francis has been pretty clear that he isn't interested in trading a top-4 guy (Hanifin) for 2 years of Duchene. However, the smoke around Hanifin and what Francis has said might actually fit Tavares a lot better.

1) Canes are interested in a top-line piece, hence the Duchene smoke.
2) Originally LeBrun (or Friedman?) said that if Hanifin would be traded the cost would really hurt and Duchene's 2 years don't fit the bill.
3) Tavares is the same age as Duchene and on a extended contract (which he can sign now) would absolutely fit that bill.
4) Francis said he talked to Karmanos about some expensive options. A Tavares extension would be very expensive.
5) This type of deal would likely create roster space for itself (1-2 forwards going back)

All of this would be assuming that Tavares doesn't sign an extension soon and would actually would want to play in Raleigh.
 
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