GDT: [Official] 2017 WJC Thread

Lunatik

Normal is an illusion.
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I thought about putting a (no pun intended) at the end of that, but figured nobody would bite. Should've known :laugh:

It's more to deflect, Parsons may have had a great game and great tournament but he is no different than he was two weeks ago. Many goaltenders have great international tourney's and never make much of themselves. I almost hate when a Flames prospect has a big tourney (of any kind) because you know that's when the overrating will begin. Last Flames player to have a good tournament and go on to have a great career was Iginla.
 

Lunatik

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He bailed his team out about half a dozen times in that 3rd period. He also seems to have ice in his veins.

I think there is a legitimate debate between Gillies v Parsons now.
I don't know if that's fair to Gillies. When he got a shot with USA in the WJC he was behind a team that wasn't nearly as good and Gillies has put up elite numbers in several consecutive years since being drafted. Parsons has looked great, no question but let's not get ahead of ourselves, I think all this does is give a reason to be excited. I want to see him keep doing it.
 

InfinityIggy

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I don't know if that's fair to Gillies. When he got a shot with USA in the WJC he was behind a team that wasn't nearly as good and Gillies has put up elite numbers in several consecutive years since being drafted. Parsons has looked great, no question but let's not get ahead of ourselves, I think all this does is give a reason to be excited. I want to see him keep doing it.

I mean it not as in 'Gillies has been disappointing' or anything like that. More so that Parsons is proving himself at every step since the draft.

If I had to pick one today I would keep Gillies, but its exciting to have both these guys in our system.
 

Calgareee

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That shot pass by Fox to White for what I think was the 4-4 goal was just rediculous.
 

Lunatik

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I mean it not as in 'Gillies has been disappointing' or anything like that. More so that Parsons is proving himself at every step since the draft.

If I had to pick one today I would keep Gillies, but its exciting to have both these guys in our system.
Honestly, all of our goaltending prospects should be exciting us. Rittich has been very good, McDonald is putting up decent numbers for the ECHL (13th in GAA), Parsons has been strong, Schneider looked good with the Heat last year and until mid-December had amazing numbers, but had had 3 stinkers in his last 7 games and it's killed his numbers (the Tigers left him in for 9 goals on the 30th) and Gillies has been really good since being drafted.
 

Johnny Hoxville

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Parsons won at the Memorial Cup and now the World Jr's and was a major reason why in both. That's what I like about him is that he's a gamer. He's also super intense in practices and competes harder than anyone on the team on every drill.

I do think he can challenge Gillies and I already like him better than MacDonald. Gillies is definitely ahead, but I often judge a goalie on their ability to win when it matters and you have to give Parsons a lot of credit. We should be really excited to have both these guys, now hopefully one of them pans out!
 

FlamerForLife

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Honestly, all of our goaltending prospects should be exciting us. Rittich has been very good, McDonald is putting up decent numbers for the ECHL (13th in GAA), Parsons has been strong, Schneider looked good with the Heat last year and until mid-December had amazing numbers, but had had 3 stinkers in his last 7 games and it's killed his numbers (the Tigers left him in for 9 goals on the 30th) and Gillies has been really good since being drafted.

I'm hoping at least 1 of these 5 goalies will pan out and be our starter in the future.

On a bit of a side note, with all 5 eligible to play pro next season, where do you guys see them playing?
 

Lunatik

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I'm hoping at least 1 of these 5 goalies will pan out and be our starter in the future.

On a bit of a side note, with all 5 eligible to play pro next season, where do you guys see them playing?
We also have Tom McCollum under contract for next year as well due to expansion requirements, so I think we see Rittich traded to Vegas (or to someone who loses a goalie prospect to Vegas) at the draft.

so I see the following (bold are my predictions):

Jon Gillies - Either NHL backup or AHL starter.
David Rittich - Either AHL starter, AHL backup, or Europe (I expect him to to be traded)
Tom McCollum - Either AHL backup, loaned to Europe or Contract Termination (in the fall)
Mason McDonald - AHL backup or ECHL starter
Tyler Parsons - AHL backup, ECHL starter or CHL (overager)
Nick Schneider - AHL backup, ECHL starter or CHL (overager)

It is also worth noting that neither of Parson's or Schneider's contracts will count against the 50 contract limit unless they play in 10 or more NHL games.
 

OvermanKingGainer

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Rittich is a better goalie than Jon Gillies and only about a year older. There is no evidence Gillies will ever catch up and favoring him over Rittich would be purely emotional attachment. Better not to put many eggs in the basket of a guy with a 3.06 / .907 while you have a guy posting .929 / 1.98 behind the same team.
 

InfinityIggy

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Rittich is a better goalie than Jon Gillies and only about a year older. There is no evidence Gillies will ever catch up and favoring him over Rittich would be purely emotional attachment. Better not to put many eggs in the basket of a guy with a 3.06 / .907 while you have a guy posting .929 / 1.98 behind the same team.

And don't let something as pesky as sample size get in the way of your narrative either!
 

OvermanKingGainer

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And don't let something as pesky as sample size get in the way of your narrative either!

I am not the one proposing handing Gillies an NHL roster spot while giving Rittich away to Vegas. Sure Gillies could get better but until he actually does he has not solidified himself as our top AHL goalie. As for sample size, Gillies' sample in the NCAA never impressed me. .930 looks good until you realize that is the equivalent of a .918 in most other leagues.
 

tyflames

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I am not the one proposing handing Gillies an NHL roster spot while giving Rittich away to Vegas. Sure Gillies could get better but until he actually does he has not solidified himself as our top AHL goalie. As for sample size, Gillies' sample in the NCAA never impressed me. .930 looks good until you realize that is the equivalent of a .918 in most other leagues.

What's wrong with a .918?..
 

SmellOfVictory

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Jun 3, 2011
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I am not the one proposing handing Gillies an NHL roster spot while giving Rittich away to Vegas. Sure Gillies could get better but until he actually does he has not solidified himself as our top AHL goalie. As for sample size, Gillies' sample in the NCAA never impressed me. .930 looks good until you realize that is the equivalent of a .918 in most other leagues.

Even in relation to other NCAA goalies he was clearly at the top. Relative to his peers, he was dominant. In terms of raw numbers, he was impressive. There is no measure you can take of Gillies prior to his injury that shows anything but an incredibly promising prospect.
 

OvermanKingGainer

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What's wrong with a .918?..

Nothing. But a .918 junior prospect won't get the same hype as a .930 NCAA prospect, even though the latter are dime a dozen.

Even in relation to other NCAA goalies he was clearly at the top. Relative to his peers, he was dominant.

Well, no. Connor Hellebuyck was dominant. Gillies was above average.

In terms of raw numbers, he was impressive.

Behind one of the older, defensively sound teams in the NCAA. Pretty much the same numbers his replacement put up (his replacement who is currently outperforming him in the AHL right now)

There is no measure you can take of Gillies prior to his injury that shows anything but an incredibly promising prospect.

Never said he wasn't (or isn't) a promising prospect ("incredibly", not so much) but the way people hyped him up as our top prospect was always off. He's a good goalie prospect, nothing more, nothing less. His 22-23 year old season isn't even as good as Ortio's 22 year old season.

I am saying however, that he should be taken for what he is rather than what people imagine he is. He's not ahead of Parsons (Parsons did what Gillies couldn't at WJC), and he's not ahead of Rittich at present. He's a good prospect and we all know goalies are voodoo, but it's not as if Gillies is Matt Murray. There is no reason to be pencilling him in as NHlBackup/AHLStarter and shopping Rittich while Rittich outperforms him; that's just bias speaking from people who have wanted us to have that big 6'6" starter and have watched Gillies grow. Even when Gillies won the NCAA tourney it was more about all the goal support he was getting than him notably outplaying the goalie at the other end.
 
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Booba

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Tom McCollum - Either AHL backup, loaned to Europe or Contract Termination (in the fall)

Not sure the NHL will allow this.

Signing a player for the sole purpose of exposing him at the expansion draft and buying him out before the start of next season would set an inconvenient precedent.

However, I understand that McCollum is in a tough spot. He has barely played this season and his icetime will once again be very limited in 2017-2018 if Calgary doesn't move any goaltenders during the offseason.

It is also worth noting that neither of Parson's or Schneider's contracts will count against the 50 contract limit unless they play in 10 or more NHL games.

Overagers are not considered junior aged players therefore they are not exempted from the 50-contract limit.

See Ottawa's Cody Donaghey and San Jose's Cavan Fitzgerald for examples
https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/senators
https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/sharks
 
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Calgareee

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Not sure the NHL will allow this.

Signing a player for the sole purpose of exposing him at the expansion draft and buying him out before the start of next season would set an inconvenient precedent.

However, I understand that McCollum is in a tough spot. He has barely played this season and his icetime will once again be very limited in 2017-2018 if Calgary doesn't move any goaltenders during the offseason.



Overagers are not considered junior aged players therefore they are not exempted from the 50-contract limit.

See Ottawa's Cody Donaghey and San Jose's Cavan Fitzgerald for examples
https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/senators
https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/sharks

It would like be a mutual contract termination as opposed to a straight buy out.
 

Booba

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It would like be a mutual contract termination as opposed to a straight buy out.

Whether it's a mutual termination or a regular buyout, I still believe that we are close to rules circumvention territory.
 

Lunatik

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Not sure the NHL will allow this.

Signing a player for the sole purpose of exposing him at the expansion draft and buying him out before the start of next season would set an inconvenient precedent.

However, I understand that McCollum is in a tough spot. He has barely played this season and his icetime will once again be very limited in 2017-2018 if Calgary doesn't move any goaltenders during the offseason.



Overagers are not considered junior aged players therefore they are not exempted from the 50-contract limit.

See Ottawa's Cody Donaghey and San Jose's Cavan Fitzgerald for examples
https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/senators
https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/sharks
I'm talking more of a situation where McCollum refuses to report to Stockton since he got no playing time this year (1 game with the Heat, 3 in the ECHL since he signed), the NHL couldn't stop a contract termination of a player who refuses to report regardless of why he was given the contract he was given.

You are correct in that other situation though, I was mistaken in thinking if the contract slides it automatically does not count towards the 50 either.
 

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