Value of: NYR - SJS cap space deal

[Juxtaposer]

The Rangers sign Kane and then send him back to San Jose? Is that what I just read?

At the low, low price of two 1st round picks!

 

[One Winged Angel]

I'm not nearly high enough for this.

 

[Machinehead]

At the low, low price of two 1st round picks!

When has that ever been the price of retention?

In Bern's defense, I can't act like half the Rangers fanbase doesn't wanna sign Kovalchuk just to trade him at the deadline.

Losing does things to people.

 

[One Winged Angel]

When has that ever been the price of retention?

In Bern's defense, I can't act like half the Rangers fanbase doesn't wanna sign Kovalchuk just to trade him at the deadline.

Losing does things to people.

I'd rather not sign him, personally, but if they're going to, that's the best case scenario.

 

[Machinehead]

I'd rather not sign him, personally, but if they're going to, that's the best case scenario.

That's not how any of this works

 

[One Winged Angel]

That's not how any of this works

Ok old lady from the commercial.

 

[Machinehead]

Ok old lady from the commercial.

That's my grandma!

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Not counting anyone else, if Tavares involved that is already cutting into what's needed to re-sign Kane.
The bold scenario may well apply, but is it enough?
This is a chance to reduce $ and more importantly cap hit at the cost of pick upgrades.

The Sharks have the flexibility needed to sign Tavares, their RFA's, Kane, and be under the cap if needed. They don't need a circumvention option like this to assist. They will need to move some guys sure but nothing that should be impossible to do.

 

[Kupo]

Fair enough.
But remember, like the Paul Simon song goes
one man's ceiling is another man's floor

Realism is based on the information available at the time, and limited perception of only doing within the confines of the status quo.

Creativity forces realism to consider its temporary boundaries, and inevitably with progress from fresh thinking, move them accordingly.

That’s wonderful news. However, the overly-complicated proposals you continue to discharge on this forum won’t have an impact in the real world.

Proposing 7 consecutive 4th round picks in a 9 player mega-swap isn’t creative. It’s straight up fantasy.

 

[HawkeyTalkMan]

You can't have your cake and eat it too.
Something has to give.
If you want to deal with age, you keep your picks.

If you need roster flexibility to optimize your chances, you trade the future, within reason.

This compromise allows SJ to afford a pricey 1W while having cap for other needs, actual and projected.

They can afford to clear $2 mil in cap space in other ways than coughing up blood in the form of two first round picks for a measly $2 mil salary cap retention

 

[Shootertooter]

It is 2 mil for each of 4 yrs, = 8 mil total, 2 mil per.
It is NOT 2m for 2 picks
also, there are 2 2018 2nds which have been ignored

OK how about this.........Why would SJS trade 2 1sts to save 2M per for the next 4 yrs, that really is not substantial savings at all compared to what they give up to do so. And who cares about the seconds at this point? It is still just nonsensical.

 

[Shootertooter]

The Rangers sign Kane and then send him back to San Jose? Is that what I just read?

You abso-friggin-lutely did.
Welcome to bizarro world.

 

[Prairie Habs]

Even if you want to argue its not cap circumvention, its 100% circumvention of the conditions on SJ's deal with the Sabres. Buffalo would have a grievance filed immediately.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Idk what i just read

 

[Shootertooter]

I'm not nearly high enough for this.

Sad thing is Berns likely isn't high when he makes these cockamamie proposals either.
But he is consistent, it is just that he is consistently bad.

 

[bernmeister]

Sharks didn't 'have' to let Marleau go. They offered him 2 yr 10 mil and told him that was their final offer. He called back telling them Toronto offered 3 for 18 (give or take) and Wilson told him good luck in Toronto.

Sharks are fine wrt the cap. They just didn't overspend for Marleau like Toronto did.

Thank you for reminding me.
He did get an irresistible offer from the leafs.
However, it was still expensive.

I take you at your informed word that, all things being =, SJ can handle itself ok atm. However, the more they go outside that comfort zone to indulge in a pricey acquisition, the harder it will be to remain comfortable as you say. I understand they are seriously interested in Tavares, as well as Kane.

It adds up, unarguably, math does not lie.
But if you can pull it off, more power to ya.

 

[bernmeister]

82 games this season. Lmao.

I am happy for his sake he has more extensively returned to action.
I hope he is satisfied at min with his production.

But indisputably, the guy has had at least what, 4, 5 concussions that we know of?
He is one serious bell wrung from hanging them up.

Too much risk, esp for his contract.
All best to him.
Never want a player, esp if he is not a s'bag, to suffer career ending injury.

 

[Djp]

Rangers have some space, no excess available to squander, but some can be used if the numbers and return are right. NY looking for picks/upgrade.

SJS wants to re-sign E Kane for optimum length and $. Taking into account his last deal, what he commands on the market, term both sides can sign off on, I come up with ballpark $6m per for 4 years with no or minimum NTCs.

Sharks have to be careful here, had to let Marleau go, and Hertl and co will command mo $.
If a mutual backscratch was effective, surely it would be considered.

Is this that win win?
Sharks have no 2nds this year or next. Also no 3rd this year. NY has surplus there.
so
pre arranged wink wink sign and trade
Rangers ink EKane to 4 yrs 6m per then send him to SJS at 2m per retained
NY also sends SJ the NJD 2018 2nd and Bruins 2018 3rd

in exchange for these 2 picks and 4 yrs cap space

Rangers get 2018 SJS 1st
and
EITHER 2019 OR 2020 SJS 1st, Sharks to decide.

I don't think NY or anyone else should be taking on contracts like Ryan, Lucic or Seabrook, esp at full pop, without major bribe for the ongoing pain and cap hit.

This is I think something much more measured.

Thoughts? Esp as to value, both sides?

A few things here....

Buffalos deal is the 2nd becomes a 1st if SHS win cup or resign Kane.

Rangers signing him and the trading him will cause 2 issues by the league

1. Cap circumvention
2. Trade circumvention.

The league will not allow this deal.

 

[bernmeister]

Sounds like SJS giving up way too much to save a couple of million.

I’m sorry, we’re giving up two 1st round picks to save $2M off the cap? Absolutely no ****ing way in hell.

I would be interested in theoretical discussion, in a vacuum, as to cap savings vs picks. I hear your objections. What ratio do you think is fair?

I think it is idiotic and suicidal to do something like Seabrook, Ryan, etc for extreme $ for long term and only getting a 1st for it. Ef that.

If you want to haggle as to what might be fairer than 2 1sts for 8m at 2 per over 4 years, + NY throws in 2nd round which SJS does not have this yr, I will listen with open mind.

 

[bernmeister]

Even if you want to argue its not cap circumvention, its 100% circumvention of the conditions on SJ's deal with the Sabres. Buffalo would have a grievance filed immediately.

A few things here....

Buffalos deal is the 2nd becomes a 1st if SHS win cup or resign Kane.

Rangers signing him and the trading him will cause 2 issues by the league

1. Cap circumvention
2. Trade circumvention.

The league will not allow this deal.

In my defense, capfriendly does not show anything on the SJ 1sts

Obviously if this was not already dead because of the point made by Mouser, it would have to have been applicable to SJ still having its first, or the 2018 1st would have to be pushed back.

 

[Satastic]

If you want to haggle as to what might be fairer than 2 1sts for 8m at 2 per over 4 years, + NY throws in 2nd round which SJS does not have this yr, I will listen with open mind.

I think it’s a safe to say we’re okay. No need to haggle or even really consider any of this

 

[Shootertooter]

I'd say SJS makes their own room and resigns Kane. They don't need to involve another team and cut their own throats regarding giving up picks. It is 2m a season for 4yrs, it is not really a significant amount to give up those picks.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Bottom line: if the Sharks need to find $2M to re-sign Kane, they’ll move Karlsson for future’s considerations or buy out Paul Martin.

 

[Alluckks]

Not allowed per the CBA.

Was looking through it the other day and couldn't find an exact section to point to for this... mind showing me where that is?

Edit: Nevermind, just your response on Page 2 as to this specific situation. And yeah, that does make sense and applies here because it was a player that was on a team the year prior.

However, is there anything preventing a team from making a deal with another team a player to a deal just to retain and trade him to that other team immediately? (Assuming that that player was not on the other team the year prior, as Kane is with San Jose in this original scenario).

 

[Revelation]

How bout NY does this with Tavares instead?

Sign him 8x12 then trade him to SJ @6 mil retained for 2 1st rounders