Speculation: NYR-EDM Trade?

[terrible dee]

1) ,. .. a real foundational player. IMO

Woaaah! Hold the phone! Are you trying to convince us he's on Brandon Sutters level?

Drai better use some of that cash and invest in a Chinese factory that manufactures BIG BOUNCEY beach balls if he wants to go cutting on to Brandon's market share

If Drai wants to be "Foundational then someone needs to walk up, tap him on the shoulder and say one word to him "BALLS"

Then just walk away....what he does next will either be foundational or not, but there is no escape from the Brandon foundational Ball challenge.

 

[tempest2i]

Yeah, but the original point was that they couldn't play well together. Big difference between splitting them up to have two potent lines and splitting them up because they can't play well together.

I don't remember Hall and McDavid playing well together. It was over 2 years ago and I don't obsessively re-watch old games, but I'm going to go out on a limb here and say if the two of them had played really well together (like Leon and Connor do), I'd remember that.

Maybe some other Oiler fans can chime in on this one, but I remember both Hall and Connor playing with a "pass first" mentality together and that driving me crazy.

 

[terrible dee]

I'm sure the actual numbers could be acquired easily enough (I'm far too lazy and hate NHL.com far too much to do so myself), my memory is Hall and McDavid were tried together at the start of the season and eventually moved to different lines.

There's some debate among hardcore Oil fans about whether or not that was a good idea. Generally speaking if you have two players that are proven "difference makes" that can carry their own line, it's good asset management to split them up.

You have to remember that both need to be able to carry the puck to be their best,

You are wasting Mc David on a line where the left wing doesn't want to make plays in the neutral zone, Hall is all about get the puck and go on a solo dash, to a certain extent this is a big part of Mc David's game too, really I can't think of two players who compliment each other less.

Although there are a few head-scratching realities here that maybe an Oilers fan could clear up for me

1.How is it that a center is receiving break away passes in the neutral zone? Shouldn't Mc David be working in the slot instead of cherry picking up ice? I can see a winger doing that, but I can't remember seeing many centers up ice looking for the "Bure pass" while his team is still working to clear the zone? What's going on here? Is THIS one of the reasons the Oilers have been so bad? Having Centers play properly is the key to the 200ft game, what's Mc David doing up there anyway?

2. From what I remember, Hall played very much like a center on break-outs, he wasn't up ice looking for passes, he would usually fight for the puck, get it then go charging up ice himself, and he would usually not even look to make a play until he was in the oposing zone, once there, he was "Pass first" this is verry traditional play for a center, not a winger (Asside from puck hogging in the neutral zone)

Am I remembering Hall accurately? Did he in fact, kind of play like a center? hound the puck all over the ice, regain possession, hold onto it till his team was back in position
and then try and make a play?

How about Mc David? I know having a very talented player at center, who ignores the less sexy aspects of being a center can screw up a whole team, even if that player is scoring, as an actual center, is he good? Most of the highlight reels show him to be Bure 2.0 and Bure was the furthest thing from a center you could be while still playing hockey

 

[Kupo]

Let’s get crazy

Skjei
Miller
Zuccarello
Hayes
Day


for

Draisaitl
Nurse
Caggiula
Puljuarvi
Safin

Bern hack your account?

 

[terrible dee]

I don't remember Hall and McDavid playing well together. It was over 2 years ago and I don't obsessively re-watch old games, but I'm going to go out on a limb here and say if the two of them had played really well together (like Leon and Connor do), I'd remember that.

Maybe some other Oiler fans can chime in on this one, but I remember both Hall and Connor playing with a "pass first" mentality together and that driving me crazy.

BTW everyone should remember that Hall's attitude wasn't very good, he whined and bitched, he also wasn't the type of guy who was going to just make it all about Mc David, there was going to be jealous

Hall's personality had dominated the "Low point" Oiler's they wanted to completely divorce themselves from that legacy and start new with Mc David being the guy,

Those were the reasons Hall was traded, he wasn't going to be in camp that year no matter what, his trade was about getting him out not bringing anyone in, they also wanted him far away, so there wouldn't be any comparisons.

I honestly believe that if the Larrson trade hadn't happened, Chia would have told Hall to stay home and wait for a deal

 

[GAGLine]

Let’s get crazy

Skjei
Miller
Zuccarello
Hayes
Day


for

Draisaitl
Nurse
Caggiula
Puljuarvi
Safin

Well, that certainly is crazy.

 

[yababy]

You have to remember that both need to be able to carry the puck to be their best,

You are wasting Mc David on a line where the left wing doesn't want to make plays in the neutral zone, Hall is all about get the puck and go on a solo dash, to a certain extent this is a big part of Mc David's game too, really I can't think of two players who compliment each other less.

Although there are a few head-scratching realities here that maybe an Oilers fan could clear up for me

1.How is it that a center is receiving break away passes in the neutral zone? Shouldn't Mc David be working in the slot instead of cherry picking up ice? I can see a winger doing that, but I can't remember seeing many centers up ice looking for the "Bure pass" while his team is still working to clear the zone? What's going on here? Is THIS one of the reasons the Oilers have been so bad? Having Centers play properly is the key to the 200ft game, what's Mc David doing up there anyway?

2. From what I remember, Hall played very much like a center on break-outs, he wasn't up ice looking for passes, he would usually fight for the puck, get it then go charging up ice himself, and he would usually not even look to make a play until he was in the oposing zone, once there, he was "Pass first" this is verry traditional play for a center, not a winger (Asside from puck hogging in the neutral zone)

Am I remembering Hall accurately? Did he in fact, kind of play like a center? hound the puck all over the ice, regain possession, hold onto it till his team was back in position
and then try and make a play?

How about Mc David? I know having a very talented player at center, who ignores the less sexy aspects of being a center can screw up a whole team, even if that player is scoring, as an actual center, is he good? Most of the highlight reels show him to be Bure 2.0 and Bure was the furthest thing from a center you could be while still playing hockey

Good post.
Yes, mcdavid is like a throwback player like Bure or Gretzky...a time when you didn't have to play a 200 foot game.

Dude want the puck, all the time! If he could pass to himself for a breakaway he'd do that.

I don't see him as a centre really, he's not taking faceoffs this year much. Mcdavid is pretty much playing like a Taylor Hall winger...and that also didn't work out well for Edmonton.

 

[THall4]

Yeah, but the original point was that they couldn't play well together. Big difference between splitting them up to have two potent lines and splitting them up because they can't play well together.

They couldnt play together, when paired they both were not productive...then McDavid got hurt..Hall started to produce...when McDavid came back..Hall went cold and only McDavid produced.

 

[tempest2i]

You have to remember that both need to be able to carry the puck to be their best,

You are wasting Mc David on a line where the left wing doesn't want to make plays in the neutral zone, Hall is all about get the puck and go on a solo dash, to a certain extent this is a big part of Mc David's game too, really I can't think of two players who compliment each other less.

Although there are a few head-scratching realities here that maybe an Oilers fan could clear up for me

1.How is it that a center is receiving break away passes in the neutral zone? Shouldn't Mc David be working in the slot instead of cherry picking up ice? I can see a winger doing that, but I can't remember seeing many centers up ice looking for the "Bure pass" while his team is still working to clear the zone? What's going on here? Is THIS one of the reasons the Oilers have been so bad? Having Centers play properly is the key to the 200ft game, what's Mc David doing up there anyway?

2. From what I remember, Hall played very much like a center on break-outs, he wasn't up ice looking for passes, he would usually fight for the puck, get it then go charging up ice himself, and he would usually not even look to make a play until he was in the oposing zone, once there, he was "Pass first" this is verry traditional play for a center, not a winger (Asside from puck hogging in the neutral zone)

Am I remembering Hall accurately? Did he in fact, kind of play like a center? hound the puck all over the ice, regain possession, hold onto it till his team was back in position
and then try and make a play?

How about Mc David? I know having a very talented player at center, who ignores the less sexy aspects of being a center can screw up a whole team, even if that player is scoring, as an actual center, is he good? Most of the highlight reels show him to be Bure 2.0 and Bure was the furthest thing from a center you could be while still playing hockey

1. Connor and Leon interchangeably play forward positions in the defensive zone. Connor understands what is expected of him in the defensive zone. That's one part of his game that I'm not concerned about. At the same time, it's pretty clear that Coach TM trusts Connor to fly the zone if he senses a chance because he has the speed to beat most Dmen to the opposing blueline in a foot race. In most instances the "Bure pass" that leads to all those breakaways and partial breakaways is actually a short pass in the defensive zone to Connor that gives him enough clear air to turn on the jets and skate away from the other team. Connor's defensive play is not why the Oilers have been so bad, it's their special teams.

2. Hall has always reminded me of a rugby player or a great wing-back in soccer/football. My last memories of Hall were how he loved to take the puck and skate it straight up the LW and then look for options in the offensive zone. Even though it sometimes led to him getting lit up with a big hit. It's funny you mention Hall playing like a center, the Oilers experimented with Hall at C and the results were disastrous. I'm sure there are numerous theories for why it failed. Lowetide used to call Hall "Chance" because he was always good for chances at both ends of ice. Not exactly the skill set you're looking for with a C.

 

[Kamiccolo]

.... Draisatl for McDonagh?

 

[tempest2i]

BTW everyone should remember that Hall's attitude wasn't very good, he whined and *****ed, he also wasn't the type of guy who was going to just make it all about Mc David, there was going to be jealous

Hall's personality had dominated the "Low point" Oiler's they wanted to completely divorce themselves from that legacy and start new with Mc David being the guy,

Those were the reasons Hall was traded, he wasn't going to be in camp that year no matter what, his trade was about getting him out not bringing anyone in, they also wanted him far away, so there wouldn't be any comparisons.

I honestly believe that if the Larrson trade hadn't happened, Chia would have told Hall to stay home and wait for a deal

I'm no Hall fan by any stretch of the imagination and I won't claim to be privy to what went on in the lockerroom, but I doubt things were as bad you make them out to be. It's pretty clear that Hall wasn't the most popular player in the dressing room, but implying that Chia would have instructed the coaching staff to scratch him until he was traded is ridiculous.

 

[THall4]

1. Connor and Leon interchangeably play forward positions in the defensive zone. Connor understands what is expected of him in the defensive zone. That's one part of his game that I'm not concerned about. At the same time, it's pretty clear that Coach TM trusts Connor to fly the zone if he senses a chance because he has the speed to beat most Dmen to the opposing blueline in a foot race. In most instances the "Bure pass" that leads to all those breakaways and partial breakaways is actually a short pass in the defensive zone to Connor that gives him enough clear air to turn on the jets and skate away from the other team. Connor's defensive play is not why the Oilers have been so bad, it's their special teams.

2. Hall has always reminded me of a rugby player or a great wing-back in soccer/football. My last memories of Hall were how he loved to take the puck and skate it straight up the LW and then look for options in the offensive zone. Even though it sometimes led to him getting lit up with a big hit. It's funny you mention Hall playing like a center, the Oilers experimented with Hall at C and the results were disastrous. I'm sure there are numerous theories for why it failed. Lowetide used to call Hall "Chance" because he was always good for chances at both ends of ice. Not exactly the skill set you're looking for with a C.

Bure floated around the middle of the rink when the puck was in his dzone as well..this comes from a HUGE Bure fan

 

[THall4]

I'm no Hall fan by any stretch of the imagination and I won't claim to be privy to what went on in the lockerroom, but I doubt things were as bad you make them out to be. It's pretty clear that Hall wasn't the most popular player in the dressing room, but implying that Chia would have instructed the coaching staff to scratch him until he was traded is ridiculous.

awfully ridiculous...

 

[bucks_oil]

Good post.
Yes, mcdavid is like a throwback player like Bure or Gretzky...a time when you didn't have to play a 200 foot game.

Dude want the puck, all the time! If he could pass to himself for a breakaway he'd do that.

I don't see him as a centre really, he's not taking faceoffs this year much. Mcdavid is pretty much playing like a Taylor Hall winger...and that also didn't work out well for Edmonton.

Wow.... you definitely do not watch the Oilers at all. Shame given the special talent that McD is. As a fan of both, he should not be mentioned in the same breath as Taylor Hall and that is saying something (Hall is a great player).

PS: McDavid is excellent defensively.
PPS: Rather than watching the TSN clip, you should watch a few youtube videos of McDavid's "breakaways" where they show the complete play. He picks up 80% of those pucks on the breakout in his own zone, just like he should. He's actually just that fast.

This video is a great example. Three great rushes (1 goal) where he picks it up in the D-zone, including one where he's the guy stripping the puck BELOW the hash-marks, nearly at the goal line.

 

[bucks_oil]

How much did Hall play with him? Seems like the year they were both there, they both had very productive seasons.

They played very little after Draisaitl returned from the AHL (what... about 11 or 12 games into the season). After that our lines were:

XXX McD Eberle
Hall Drai XXX

Hall's season success had a lot more to do with Draisaitl to be honest, who, at one point... I dunno, about 20 games after he came back... had already scored about 32 points or something crazy. He had the 2nd highest PPG at that point. He cooled off toward the end of the year (perhaps 1st full season fatigue?) and, I won't say as consequence, but I'll imply it... so did Hall. Ying or Yang, those guys played very well together... so McD/Drai isn't the first time you've seen Drai mesh well with an(other) elite talent.

 

[bucks_oil]

PC isn't afraid to make a move. Aggressive moves. Ones that can burn him (and sometimes do). And he wants to win now. I wouldn't assume he wouldn't go after someone just because the team isn't currently in a playoff spot if he thinks that guy can help get them in.

I agree with all of that...

my only point is that there are a lot of passengers on this team right now... reasonable effort, but just not getting it done. If we (McLellan) doesn't fix that and find a way to get the most out of Edmonton, it would be foolish to spend a bunch of futures in a season where we might be doomed by growing pains.

This squad isn't a Rick Nash away right now... and it's arguable that they shouldn't really need him... they've lost only Ebs & Sekera, (replaced with Strome) from a very good team last year.

They need to play/coach to their potential to EARN a gift like Nash at the deadline... I wouldn't spend until I saw a real pulse.

 

[thadd]

you are the same organization who traded away taylor hall for adam larsson.....

Yup. No regrets there!

 

[bernmeister]

Let’s get crazy

Skjei
Miller
Zuccarello
Hayes
Day

for

Draisaitl
Nurse
Caggiula
Puljuarvi
Safin

No, very bad for Rangers.

Bern hack your account?

How little you know and how much less, you understand, me.

 

[bernmeister]

vaingretzky, if I remember, came up w/a winner
Strome + 2nd for Grabner

I again say, if you also want Nash
Nash + Grabner
for
Pulj +
conditional 1st (or other acceptable) = only pay if Nash and Grabner give EDM 40 goals from date of trade [ideally immediately]

If you got that much production for the balance of the season, the extra compensation by pick is fine.

Otherwise, yeah, you gave up what is thought/expected to be a blue chip, but you get 2 guys, big, fast, 2 way, and it is likely they combine for 30+ at minimum.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Other sources say a Grabner + Nash for something or Miller + Kreider for something.

Miller is not going anywhere, so for a Grabner + Nash trade what could come in return?

Teams always scout out other teams before they play them, Probably means nothing and FWIW all Canadian teams are on Rick Nash no trade list.

 

[TFHockey]

vaingretzky, if I remember, came up w/a winner
Strome + 2nd for Grabner

I again say, if you also want Nash
Nash + Grabner
for
Pulj +
conditional 1st (or other acceptable) = only pay if Nash and Grabner give EDM 40 goals from date of trade [ideally immediately]

If you got that much production for the balance of the season, the extra compensation by pick is fine.

Otherwise, yeah, you gave up what is thought/expected to be a blue chip, but you get 2 guys, big, fast, 2 way, and it is likely they combine for 30+ at minimum.

Poolparty isn't going for a trade like that. Don't expect Edmonton to deal away on of their top prospects who plays a position we are extremely weak on.

Would the Rangers deal away a top prospect for players like that? Not likely.

We can do Strome + 3rd for Grabner. A 2nd is a little too much in a deep draft.

 

[Connor]

vaingretzky, if I remember, came up w/a winner
Strome + 2nd for Grabner

I again say, if you also want Nash
Nash + Grabner
for
Pulj +
conditional 1st (or other acceptable) = only pay if Nash and Grabner give EDM 40 goals from date of trade [ideally immediately]

If you got that much production for the balance of the season, the extra compensation by pick is fine.

Otherwise, yeah, you gave up what is thought/expected to be a blue chip, but you get 2 guys, big, fast, 2 way, and it is likely they combine for 30+ at minimum.

I'd say F THAT

You think a past his prime 2nd line support winger with a huge cap hit and a depth scorer both UFAs at the end of the season will get you a blue chip prospect and a 1st?

You're either really intoxicated or young, maybe both.

 

[McDavidCrushedLarkin]

.... Draisatl for McDonagh?

Nylandar for McDonagh?

 

[Kamiccolo]

Nylandar for McDonagh?

I mean... Ok if that's something we can work out.

 

[bernmeister]

I'd say F THAT

You think a past his prime 2nd line support winger with a huge cap hit and a depth scorer both UFAs at the end of the season will get you a blue chip prospect and a 1st?

You're either really intoxicated or young, maybe both.

And I'd say eff any notion of underpaying.
If you don't want Nash, we should still get a 1st for him from SJ or elsewhere, even if NYR adds.

And you conveniently ignored the whole point of my post, that the 1st is conditional, pending these 2 doing 40 goals balance of season. If they deliver, then hell yes, you should pay.

Since Grabner would be provided as a package in that scenario w/conditional add, then pool party or other acceptable is required.

You guys have plenty of cap, but if it's a big deal, we can eat half of Nash in lieu of taking on Fayne.