Proposal: [NYR/EDM] How to get faster and drop Lucic

[Connor McConnor]

Anyone saying Rangers should take it and run are crazy. A 10th OA pick isnt worth a terrible contract like that.

$22.5m over the next 5 years is not a "terrible contract" with the rising cap, upcoming compliance buyout(s) and ability to potentially dump him after. A 10th OA is a massive overpayment and the fact you think it isn't is laughable.

 

[Seachd]

Wait, so you're saying instead of giving up 10th overall, the Oilers can just keep waiting year after year, burning Lucic's contract so they'd have to give up less?

Wow I guess that solves that problem.

Here's an actual problem - lack of high-end wingers/defensemen in the system. So trading the first round pick? I guess that solves that problem.

 

[Dr Quincy]

I think anything that gives big market teams an advantage over small market teams should be gotten rid of. In this case buying out of bonuses ladden contracts. Beyond that I don't believe the amount a player gets in bonuses on July 1 should be more then the salary that player gets that season(so say if a player gets paid a 3M bonus on JUly 1, but only 1M during the seasons, that should be changed to a 2 and 2).

Then don't allow buyouts. Or if you allow them, the entire amount counts on the cap (not 1/3 savings). The cap equalizes things between teams. Why should a person be allowed to agree with another party on a contract, and the just unilaterally decide not to honor it?

I also don't see the point of your restructure of bonus vs. salary. If you don't want to offer a $3m bonus.... don't.

It's amazing when people say about players "Oh, they knew the risks when they started playing. If they get concussions they should have known." But when it comes to owners we don't say "They knew the risk of paying Milan Lucic $6m for 7 years, with a full NMC for 5 of them." They are adults, they made their decision. Live with it.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

Isn't Smith signed for 3 years and Lucic 5? I don't see the point in trading for a guy with a longer contract and who is less likely to be worth the money.

Not that I think Smith is going to have a massive turnaround or anything but he's more likely to be useful during his contract than Lucic.

The whole Lucic is tough thing is overblown btw. Have you watched him play for the Oilers? I'd hate for the Rangers to start going after players who specialize in toughness again. Didn't work well last time.

I know there is a good chance that Smith turns it around, but there is also a small chance he doesn't and becomes a distraction again. So if we are getting a big salary dump like Lucic might as well dump a little bit of ours the other way.

 

[TFHockey]

Wait, so you're saying instead of giving up 10th overall, the Oilers can just keep waiting year after year, burning Lucic's contract so they'd have to give up less?

Wow I guess that solves that problem.

We can wait a year and see if he bounces back. Or deal him to a cap floor team... whatever the case, it is better than just losing a top 10 pick. The deals offered on here are something else... just trying to pick the Oilers clean.

 

[Nico the Draft Riser]

Another 10 OA + Lucic trade hey? If this is the price I'd rather just hang on to Lucic for another year. See if he returns to 50 point form or even close. One more year off his contract and a 45-50 point campaign and the Oilers don't have to give up a top 10 pick. Bad for Rangers? They make out like bandits.

you hang onto Lucic another year and he doesnt improve, your looking at more than the 10th to move him in the future.

You move him now or you pay more later. This idea that 'cap floor teams' magically take on ludicrous contracts for nothing is made up

 

[TFHockey]

you hang onto Lucic another year and he doesnt improve, your looking at more than the 10th to move him in the future.

You move him now or you pay more later. This idea that 'cap floor teams' magically take on ludicrous contracts for nothing is made up

More than the 10th? Okay... show me a comparable. What team has dealt a 10 OA or higher to get rid of a contract?

I never said they'd take him for nothing. Stop putting words in my mouth.

 

[Nico the Draft Riser]

More than the 10th? Okay... show me a comparable. What team has dealt a 10 OA or higher to get rid of a contract?

I never said they'd take him for nothing. Stop putting words in my mouth.

You arent special enough for me to put words in your mouth, i never quoted you as saying such. lol

and your idea of holding onto Lucic and then just knocking him off to some stupid cap floor team when his value likely drops even further shows you have little idea what youre talking about.

 

[TFHockey]

You arent special enough for me to put words in your mouth, i never quoted you as saying such. lol

and your idea of holding onto Lucic and then just knocking him off to some stupid cap floor team when his value likely drops even further shows you have little idea what youre talking about.

You didn't answer my question. You can't find a team who has done that because teams DON'T do that. It's terrible asset management. And I don't know what I am talking about?

Skip the insults. Trading the 10th just to dump Lucic is a terrible idea. I think the only argument you can make at this point is... "Yeah, but Chia!"

 

[bukwas]

you hang onto Lucic another year and he doesnt improve, your looking at more than the 10th to move him in the future.

You move him now or you pay more later. This idea that 'cap floor teams' magically take on ludicrous contracts for nothing is made up

If even one tenth the ugly contracts that posters seem to think will be accepted by cap floor teams actually were, there would be no cap floor teams out there.

 

[Nico the Draft Riser]

If even one tenth the ugly contracts that posters seem to think will be accepted by cap floor teams actually were, there would be no cap floor teams out there.

exactly. But dont worry Lucic can be moved for nothing because he may return to form, yaknow?

 

[Apathetic]

You didn't answer my question. You can't find a team who has done that because teams DON'T do that. It's terrible asset management. And I don't know what I am talking about?

Skip the insults. Trading the 10th just to dump Lucic is a terrible idea. I think the only argument you can make at this point is... "Yeah, but Chia!"

I think this deal is awful for the Oilers and they should have no interest giving up assets to move Lucic but Lawson Crouse (was drafted 11th overall the year before) + Dave Bolland for a 2nd and 3rd is about as close as you will get. Though I am pretty sure Bolland's contract wasn't insure and the Panthers owner didn't want to pay someone not to play.

 

[Jumptheshark]

TO NYR:

10 OA
M. Lucic

TO EDM:

R. Spooner
39 OA (2nd round #8)

Would Edmonton ever consider this? Spooner is a streaky scorer who is RFA, so you can control him.

the question is how much does spooner want in his new contract
also--would the rangers do it?

 

[Seachd]

you hang onto Lucic another year and he doesnt improve, your looking at more than the 10th to move him in the future.

This doesn’t make the least bit of sense. If his contract is smaller, it’s going to cost less to move it, if anything.

And from everything we’ve heard, the Oilers aren’t trying to dump his contract anyway, let alone give up a top ten pick with him.

 

[Nico the Draft Riser]

This doesn’t make the least bit of sense. If his contract is smaller, it’s going to cost less to move it, if anything.

And from everything we’ve heard, the Oilers aren’t trying to dump his contract anyway, let alone give up a top ten pick with him.

How does it not make sense?

Right now Lucic has the chance to bounce back. If he comes back next year and posts similar numbers, his value DROPS. just because is a year less doesnt mean he hasnt gotten a year older and not improved.

 

[bernmeister]

More than the 10th? Okay... show me a comparable. What team has dealt a 10 OA or higher to get rid of a contract?

I never said they'd take him for nothing. Stop putting words in my mouth.

The prob here is you are thinking of a process as a still photograph when it is actually a video in motion.

Translation: just because it used to not cost so much to palm off salary under prior conditions does not mean that continues to be the status quo going forward under new conditions.

Teams like the Rangers could buy guys, and readily pay teams to take them off NY's hands if the timetable for end of contract was not in alignment with player production.

But now rules about cap are tight. It's not just you go over and you pay a luxury tax and you do what the ef you want.

Your team capitulates and maintains itself within cap or it doesn't play.

As such cap space is at a premium.

And it is not like we are talking Dallas with Spezza, it is a full 7m but 1 year only. The salary number can be considered but the term is a killer.

So look, I get you wanna shape the parameters of any deal, but the facts are the facts.

No one is required to show you an old comparable and be married to it, just as you wish to insist that be the case.

Market forces, you push, trade partners push back. Competitive bids shape parameters. If you don't like it, keep the player and the bad contract.

A team may take a bit less than 10OA for a top $ discard on an expiring deal, but no one is gonna take on long term without serious overpayment. You want salary cap rented from another team's roster, you pay.

Welcome to the new reality.

 

[bernmeister]

$22.5m over the next 5 years is not a "terrible contract" with the rising cap, upcoming compliance buyout(s) and ability to potentially dump him after. A 10th OA is a massive overpayment and the fact you think it isn't is laughable.

Read my above post.
It is terrible for 5 years
10OA is not enough.

 

[bernmeister]

Well, Lucic's final bonus is paid this July 1st. His actual contract drops to $4.5 Million while his cap hit remains $6 Million. The Oilers front-loaded the $$$ in this contract. That has to count for budget teams if they're thinking of trading for Lucic. The NYRs obviously are not a budget team.

Seriously Ranger fans if you want the 10 oa the Oilers are going to ask for something valuable in return. They're not going to package Lucic just to get rid of him. Bob Stauffer said exactly that and he is basically just a spokesman for the team now.

Posturing aside, there will be no assets offered for Lucic other than a less bad, but still undesirable contract, to reduce what EDM will have to cough up.
Stauffer can say whatever, but if Oil don't adjust to that reality, they can keep Lucic til his term ends.

 

[bernmeister]

Anyone saying Rangers should take it and run are crazy. A 10th OA pick isnt worth a terrible contract like that.

^ yup

 

[TFHockey]

Posturing aside, there will be no assets offered for Lucic other than a less bad, but still undesirable contract, to reduce what EDM will have to cough up.
Stauffer can say whatever, but if Oil don't adjust to that reality, they can keep Lucic til his term ends.

I guess we'll find out July 1st. Fact is you don't know anything more than the rest of us. Don't act like you do.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

Oilers have no need to pay to dump Lucic give him a year to bounce back and if he doesn't they still have options. We're almost assuredly looking at another lock out in sept 2019 and with that likely another round of compliance buyouts. Everybody loves them, teams get a mulligan on a bad deal, other teams get to sell their buyout for assets if they don't need it and the PA likes it because it frees up cap money for other guys and it gives guys who are buried with massive contracts 2/3 of their pay out and they can re sign somewhere else that is a better situation for them at a more suitable cap hit. LTIR could also be a possibility as well.

 

[me2]

Oilers have no need to pay to dump Lucic give him a year to bounce back and if he doesn't they still have options. We're almost assuredly looking at another lock out in sept 2019 and with that likely another round of compliance buyouts.

Compliance buyouts are to allow teams to comply with lowered salary caps/lowered players' share of revenue. If it doesn't get lowered again, then there is no need for compliance buyouts. Who knows, there are a lot of stupid GMs with bad contracts they want to get rid of.

Everybody loves them, teams get a mulligan on a bad deal, other teams get to sell their buyout for assets if they don't need it and the PA likes it because it frees up cap money for other guys and it gives guys who are buried with massive contracts 2/3 of their pay out and they can re sign somewhere else that is a better situation for them at a more suitable cap hit. LTIR could also be a possibility as well.

Compliance buyouts come out of the players pockets since they count against the players' share of revenue, so they all pay for them. Why would players want to pay for Lucic and others out of their own pockets?

 

[bernmeister]

I guess we'll find out July 1st. Fact is you don't know anything more than the rest of us. Don't act like you do.

We are all saying what we THINK or EXPECT may happen.
You as well.
Never said I had inside info.
You went there not me.

Lucic may stay, he may go.
Likely, there will either be a worse cap dump or a significant enough price to take on a cap dump.

We will see after July 1.

 

[TFHockey]

We are all saying what we THINK or EXPECT may happen.
You as well.
Never said I had inside info.
You went there not me.

Lucic may stay, he may go.
Likely, there will either be a worse cap dump or a significant enough price to take on a cap dump.

We will see after July 1.

We agree on this at least.