Boy has this thread ever been de-railed.
Myers has never been a #1 defenseman in Winnipeg. If he was a true #1 defenseman in Buffalo he wouldn't have been traded in the first place (certainly not on his generous contract).
Norris Trophy Voting:
Mike Green
07-08: 7th
08-09: 2nd
09-10: 2nd
Tyler Myers
09-10: 15th
10-11: 16th
So you're telling me a guy who's been a #1 defenseman "for years" has never finished as high as 15th for Norris voting?
Yeah, Myers has been a #1 for years, and he's better than Mike Green is. He can hold down more minutes, play harder minutes, in more situations, and doesn't need to be sheltered.
Myers is probably 3rd defenceman at Winnipeg. And has been that for a while.
This #1 talk is just a lie, and you know it.
Guy could be defensively better than Green yeah, but that's it.
You’ll find very few people that agree with this opinion of yours.Myers is a #1 D.
1) anyone thinking Myers is a #1 is in cloud ****oo land. He's a #3 who can do a decent job on a top pair from time to time if with a smarter partner. Would our D be better with him on it? Yes. Was he worthy the price asked of us? No.
2) quite apart from the historical element rendering it pointless, the Jarnkrok trade didn't hurt us at all. Now he's ES outperforming Nielsen, but wasn't when we signed Nielsen. Perhaps trading him cost us an extra $2m in cap space, but he forced a trade anyway. And despite dropping off a cliff, Legwand's immediate impact got us into the playoffs. Would have been a better trade had Babs not pushed for and then rejected the player.
As moves go there are plenty more far worse.
3) Nike to Nashville. Not sure they would part with anyone we'd want. Agree that Fabbro or multiple picks would have to come into it
That is sort of the point. Legwand was a career 0.65 ish PPG player enjoying statistically one of his best seasons. I doubt anyone would guess he'd go from scoring st the same rate in Detroit to a 4th line scrub overnight or a bottom line plug in months. Sure it's a risk trading for older players, but not usually ones outperforming their career average. Either way, he helped us make the playoffs, so the primary objective worked. (And yes I know many don't agree with the objective, but that is a separate point).Jarnkrok didn't force the trade. That's fuction.
Legwand was done like dinner.
If Jarnkrok wasn't traded, we almost surely wouldn't have signed Frans Nielsen
He went from 40 points in 62 games at the time of the trade to a bit player in Ottawa the next year, and even smaller bit player in Buffalo the next year - his last in the NHL
So, you're saying Nestrasil and Jarnkrok were viewed as the same level of prospect? I think Nestrasil was always seen as a significantly lower prospect than Jarnkrok, and conflating the two is just wrong.
one morning four weeks later in babs doghouse on the 4th line and staring down the barrel of the end of his career. Astonishing drop off.
What's crazy is fans in Toronto are already getting tired of Babcock's mind boggling methods. There's a thread on the main board about it.
I was actually higher on Nestrasil than Jarnkrok at the time. I never did (and still don't) like Jarnkrok's size. He never filled out and is a tweener at best. Nestrasil I guess is a bust now, but I thought he looked better on the bottom 6 in the sense he was "harder to play against" than Jarnkrok currently is today.
I agree with Claypool, both were nothing more than B-level prospects. Nestrasil is bust whereas Jarnkrok is still a tweener on a good contract playing for a legit top contender. Jarnkrok would never help this team more than the bottom 6 we currently have. And DRWs currently have potentially better center prospects than Jarnkrok was ever projected on his best day.
To me losing Jarnkork is less of an impact than losing Tomas Kopecky. At least Red Wings got something in return for Jarnkrok.
If Nyquist is traded, I think the trade will look something like the Henrique trade. Similar age, similar contract and similar production. Hopefully a Vatanen-type player will make it's way to Detroit.
From a Wings' perspective, it makes total sense. If Green is traded at the deadline, Ellis would give the team another RH PP specialist. He's signed to a great deal (2.5M AAV for another year) and he's only 27.What about Nyquist for Ryan Ellis straight up? I don't think Nashville even considers this, they like Ellis, but from a Wings perspective I'd do this.
Ellis is much more valuable than Nyquist, but honestly we should be targeting players younger than him. We're just going to be trying to trade Ellis after his contract when he needs a raise. Plus he's super cheap this year and next so Nashville will want to keep him. We should be looking for futures, not win-now pieces.What about Nyquist for Ryan Ellis straight up? I don't think Nashville even considers this, they like Ellis, but from a Wings perspective I'd do this.
Ellis is much more valuable than Nyquist, but honestly we should be targeting players younger than him. We're just going to be trying to trade Ellis after his contract when he needs a raise. Plus he's super cheap this year and next so Nashville will want to keep him. We should be looking for futures, not win-now pieces.
From a Nashville perspective, he's part of a big-4 (Josi, Subban, him and Ekholm) that is pretty good. Maybe a deal for Green + Nyquist for Ellis + would be a great basis, Green can fill in the void left by Ellis and Nyquist gives them a boost in scoring.
I get what you are saying, but he is only 27. Even if we are ready to compete in 4 years, he'd only be 31. Realistically, Nashville won't want to disrupt their top 4, so this won't happen. They aren't gonna move Fabbro, and I'm not interested in Farrance, so I don't think there is a deal to be made, unless they offer their 1st and a B-list prospect.