Proposal: Nyquist to Nashville

[The Zetterberg Era]

He looked very good on the big ice. Never really made enough strength or skating gains. I can't find the Hakan quote, I believe it was on RWC. But Hakan is always overly complimentary on prospects, basically the opposite of Tyler Wright in that regard.

According to Bob Duff of the Windsor Star, Detroit’s Development Coach Jiri Fischer had this to say about Jarnkrok’s potential just last month.
“He’s certainly one of our most talented, if not the most talented prospect,” Fischer said. “Not to take anything away from others like Anthony Mantha, but Calle, the stuff he can do – he is as good as anybody in terms of hand-eye coordination and skill in tight places.

Last April, Ansar Khan of MLive.com caught up with former Red Wing’s captain and current Red Wing’s European scout Nicklas Lidstrom, and Wings defenseman Jonathan Ericsson to talk about Jarnkrok.
“He's a very shifty guy, he's quick, he's got quick hands, he sees the ice very well,'' Lidstrom said. “He's got real good hockey sense. He needs to get stronger and get used to playing on this ice surface, but he's got a lot of potential.''
Many have likened Jarnkrok's style to current Red Wings captain Henrik Zetterberg.
“You do see a lot of similarities to how Hank plays,'' Lidstrom said. “He's got that ability to hang onto the puck and not throw it away unless he has to. He can hold off guys and make that play when there's an opening and wait for that opening, too.

I really believed he would be a monster on the PP. Which is where he did a lot of damage as a younger player. He had a Backstrom light quality there where he just killed people once space opened up over in Europe. He seems to not have been able to make the adjustment to the tighter boxes run in NA. But that is where I thought Jarnkrok would make a living which is why Zetterberg and Backstrom as countrymen examples made sense. He was dependable two way but would rack up points on the PP. Maybe he will develop there as he does get run occasionally with the Preds but he just hasn't been as good on the PP as I expected.

Jarnkrok ultimately threatened to leave. His time in Detroit was over, we could have hung on to him and felt as good as we have about Dick Axelsson and Johan Ryno. Who for the record are both very good players in Sweden that is basically what we were left with. He was beaten out for a job by Riley Sheahan. He really was at the time, it is unfortunate but he wasn't ready. It is the same reason the Preds kept him down, but obviously he was willing to give them more leeway than the Wings where the relationship had gotten a little rocky in my opinion.

Jarnkrok went home and whined to anybody that would listen at the Christmas break and Holland did something this board complains he doesn't do very often. He sold when the writing was on the wall.

I think Nyquist is a great fit for Nashville and they have some D-man we could take a look at for sure. Removing one of Tatar or Nyquist from this team needs to happen before the draft is over.

 

[Winger98]

I really believed he would be a monster on the PP. Which is where he did a lot of damage as a younger player. He had a Backstrom light quality there where he just killed people once space opened up over in Europe. He seems to not have been able to make the adjustment to the tighter boxes run in NA. But that is where I thought Jarnkrok would make a living which is why Zetterberg and Backstrom as countrymen examples made sense. He was dependable two way but would rack up points on the PP. Maybe he will develop there as he does get run occasionally with the Preds but he just hasn't been as good on the PP as I expected.

Jarnkrok ultimately threatened to leave. His time in Detroit was over, we could have hung on to him and felt as good as we have about Dick Axelsson and Johan Ryno. Who for the record are both very good players in Sweden that is basically what we were left with. He was beaten out for a job by Riley Sheahan. He really was at the time, it is unfortunate but he wasn't ready. It is the same reason the Preds kept him down, but obviously he was willing to give them more leeway than the Wings where the relationship had gotten a little rocky in my opinion.

Jarnkrok went home and whined to anybody that would listen at the Christmas break and Holland did something this board complains he doesn't do very often. He sold when the writing was on the wall.

I think Nyquist is a great fit for Nashville and they have some D-man we could take a look at for sure. Removing one of Tatar or Nyquist from this team needs to happen before the draft is over.

Was Sheahan more ready or was Sheahan just bigger? Nashville kept Jarnkrok in the A for six games before promoting him and never looking back. With the injury issues the Wings were having that season they had the roster space and the roster necessities to have called Jarnkrok up and given him a look well before the TDL. Maybe they still deal him, or maybe Jarnkrok comes up and does what he did in Nashville and cements a roster spot.

Jarnkrok was having a better season while playing a bigger role than Sheahan, and got passed over for a promotion. We were running Emmerton and Andersson out for regular shifts because signing Sammy, Tootoo, and Bertuzzi blew up on us. It was mismanagement on the part of the Wings.

 

[Redder Winger]

To be fair, nobody thought that Legwand was going to be the a last "hoo-rah". At the time the Wings lost Datsyuk, Zetterberg, and Helm to injury and had Andersson as their 1C. The trade was made to keep them in the playoffs with the hope that D & Z coming back would give them their last "hoo-rah".

Given Ilittch's health at the time, and looking at what happened to just a few years later.

Losing Jarnkrok (a decent third liner) for potentially one last chance to do something in the playoffs when you are close to death is not really something I can fault a guy for.

Sure in hindsight for all of us still alive with hopefully many many many years left to watch this team play it seems like a bad trade, but through Illitch's eye's at the time, I cant blame the guy at all if he wanted it.

Losing Jarnkrok IMO is a sacrifice that we as fans should be able to handle if it gave Mr.I another year to hope his team could do something considering everything he did for this team.

Total revisionism.

It was a stupid decision.

It was a logic fail.

So when you lose on logic, change the story to emotion.

"Win 1 for Mr. I!"

Can't argue with that, right?
Expect nobody was saying such a thing at the time.

Nobody even pretended like winning a cup for Mr I was important.
If going for broke for Mr. I was a thing - it was a thing for the Detroit Tigers - the team that Ilitch truly loved and the sport Ilitch truly loved.

 

[kliq]

Total revisionism.

It was a stupid decision.

It was a logic fail.

So when you lose on logic, change the story to emotion.

"Win 1 for Mr. I!"

Can't argue with that, right?
Expect nobody was saying such a thing at the time.

Nobody even pretended like winning a cup for Mr I was important.
If going for broke for Mr. I was a thing - it was a thing for the Detroit Tigers - the team that Ilitch truly loved and the sport Ilitch truly loved.

You are the one who wrote "What an idiotic move that was, Mr I or not." So I commented based on that narrative, no revisionism here, sorry man. You take things way too personally.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Was Sheahan more ready or was Sheahan just bigger? Nashville kept Jarnkrok in the A for six games before promoting him and never looking back. With the injury issues the Wings were having that season they had the roster space and the roster necessities to have called Jarnkrok up and given him a look well before the TDL. Maybe they still deal him, or maybe Jarnkrok comes up and does what he did in Nashville and cements a roster spot.

Jarnkrok was having a better season while playing a bigger role than Sheahan, and got passed over for a promotion. We were running Emmerton and Andersson out for regular shifts because signing Sammy, Tootoo, and Bertuzzi blew up on us. It was mismanagement on the part of the Wings.

There was plenty to complain about in terms of the vets. Jarnkrok was not great in Grand Rapids that year. I got to see him live in person a bunch that year and he had parts of games where he was underwhelming each time. He had enormous hockey IQ and great hands but something was kind of off. I wanted that not to be the case, but I think we found out plenty after in terms of what was going on. He was disengaged in a lot of games and wanted to go back home. He didn't want to battle or earn it. We were banged up but Sheahan was better and playing a much heavier game. Emmerton was playing better in Detroit and Grand Rapids than Jarnkrok. He wasn't ready he was a slight kid that wasn't engaging in puck battles and seemed entitled to the next step.

I like Jarnkrok a lot as a prospect. But he was playing uninspired until the trade, he was promptly really bad his next year in Nashville too because he wasn't all that ready. He needed to mature. He found the right fit. It wasn't here unfortunately, I really had hoped it would be. I did really want his right-handed shot. But it sounded like the relationship had really poisoned anyway. It was a breakup that was just going to happen it seems. I was angry but ultimately I don't think we can run around saying thanks for hanging on to Hudler and Filppula for nothing and then get outraged when Holland knew he had an asset that would be wasted in three months so he shipped him.

By the way we also shouldn't forget David Legwand was having perhaps his second best season in the league and Babcock wanted him and then basically wouldn't play him... Never understood that part of it either... I understood the Legwand and Cole moves at the time. They didn't work out, but I understood them for sure.

I am curious who/what do we really want from Nashville for Nyquist?

 

[kliq]

There was plenty to complain about in terms of the vets. Jarnkrok was not great in Grand Rapids that year. I got to see him live in person a bunch that year and he had parts of games where he was underwhelming each time. He had enormous hockey IQ and great hands but something was kind of off. I wanted that not to be the case, but I think we found out plenty after in terms of what was going on. He was disengaged in a lot of games and wanted to go back home. He didn't want to battle or earn it. We were banged up but Sheahan was better and playing a much heavier game. Emmerton was playing better in Detroit and Grand Rapids than Jarnkrok. He wasn't ready he was a slight kid that wasn't engaging in puck battles and seemed entitled to the next step.

I like Jarnkrok a lot as a prospect. But he was playing uninspired until the trade, he was promptly really bad his next year in Nashville too because he wasn't all that ready. He needed to mature. He found the right fit. It wasn't here unfortunately, I really had hoped it would be. I did really want his right-handed shot. But it sounded like the relationship had really poisoned anyway. It was a breakup that was just going to happen it seems. I was angry but ultimately I don't think we can run around saying thanks for hanging on to Hudler and Filppula for nothing and then get outraged when Holland knew he had an asset that would be wasted in three months so he shipped him.

By the way we also shouldn't forget David Legwand was having perhaps his second best season in the league and Babcock wanted him and then basically wouldn't play him... Never understood that part of it either... I understood the Legwand and Cole moves at the time. They didn't work out, but I understood them for sure.

Good post, pretty spot on. It truly baffles me that 5 years later, people can be this upset that we lost a 3rd liner for what at the time was a perceived chance to make the playoffs. Sure it would be nice to have a guy like Jarnkrok now, it would be another asset, but it wouldn't really change anything in the grand scheme of things.

I am pretty sure that most teams would trade a future 3rd liner if they believed it was the difference between making the playoffs or not making the playoffs.

 

[Winger98]

There was plenty to complain about in terms of the vets. Jarnkrok was not great in Grand Rapids that year. I got to see him live in person a bunch that year and he had parts of games where he was underwhelming each time. He had enormous hockey IQ and great hands but something was kind of off. I wanted that not to be the case, but I think we found out plenty after in terms of what was going on. He was disengaged in a lot of games and wanted to go back home. He didn't want to battle or earn it. We were banged up but Sheahan was better and playing a much heavier game. Emmerton was playing better in Detroit and Grand Rapids than Jarnkrok. He wasn't ready he was a slight kid that wasn't engaging in puck battles and seemed entitled to the next step.

I like Jarnkrok a lot as a prospect. But he was playing uninspired until the trade, he was promptly really bad his next year in Nashville too because he wasn't all that ready. He needed to mature. He found the right fit. It wasn't here unfortunately, I really had hoped it would be. I did really want his right-handed shot. But it sounded like the relationship had really poisoned anyway. It was a breakup that was just going to happen it seems. I was angry but ultimately I don't think we can run around saying thanks for hanging on to Hudler and Filppula for nothing and then get outraged when Holland knew he had an asset that would be wasted in three months so he shipped him.

By the way we also shouldn't forget David Legwand was having perhaps his second best season in the league and Babcock wanted him and then basically wouldn't play him... Never understood that part of it either... I understood the Legwand and Cole moves at the time. They didn't work out, but I understood them for sure.

I am curious who/what do we really want from Nashville for Nyquist?

We lose Jarnkrok in three months if we don't give him a look. I don't really see the situations between him and Flip/Hudler in their UFA seasons as really comparable. We had far more control with Jarnkrok and we essentially lost him for nothing anyway. I never really liked the Legwand deal, though, nor did I agree with how Holland handled that season. I thought it was a mess. It's water under the bridge now, and this is far from Holland's worst mistake, but that season was also the beginning of a series of bad moves by Holland.

Given how discontent every swede was when they came over, I have to wonder if something was going on behind the scenes. Some promises made or inferred, something that made every one of these guys come over, look at this club, and then go, "What the hell... ."

I think you're overselling his shortcomings in GR a bit, too. You can say he had a weak first full season, but it was also very comparable to Flip's first full season, and not far off Hudler's. I think Jarnkrok had a pretty typical rookie year for a lot of middle-tier forwards. His playing style was likened to Z, but he was never seen as his literal equal. I'm not sure what expectations should have been there at that point.

As for our asks from Nashville, I still like Pettersson. I don't think we can pry Fabbro or that Russian kid they have in the Q from them. Trevor Murphy could be interesting. Not too old, and has produced well in the AHL. Like Washington, I wouldn't be hung up on getting a first from them for anything. Go for one of their better prospects and a later pick. Their first is likely to be in the 20s somewhere, and I like our chances of getting a good NHLer more from picking over their system and getting a reasonable pick, than just trying to capitalize on a late 1st.

 

[Winger98]

Good post, pretty spot on. It truly baffles me that 5 years later, people can be this upset that we lost a 3rd liner for what at the time was a perceived chance to make the playoffs. Sure it would be nice to have a guy like Jarnkrok now, it would be another asset, but it wouldn't really change anything in the grand scheme of things.

I am pretty sure that most teams would trade a future 3rd liner if they believed it was the difference between making the playoffs or not making the playoffs.

To be fair, Holland perceives pretty much every season as a possibility of making the playoffs and makes moves accordingly.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

We lose Jarnkrok in three months if we don't give him a look. I don't really see the situations between him and Flip/Hudler in their UFA seasons as really comparable. We had far more control with Jarnkrok and we essentially lost him for nothing anyway. I never really liked the Legwand deal, though, nor did I agree with how Holland handled that season. I thought it was a mess. It's water under the bridge now, and this is far from Holland's worst mistake, but that season was also the beginning of a series of bad moves by Holland.

Given how discontent every swede was when they came over, I have to wonder if something was going on behind the scenes. Some promises made or inferred, something that made every one of these guys come over, look at this club, and then go, "What the hell... ."

I think you're overselling his shortcomings in GR a bit, too. You can say he had a weak first full season, but it was also very comparable to Flip's first full season, and not far off Hudler's. I think Jarnkrok had a pretty typical rookie year for a lot of middle-tier forwards. His playing style was likened to Z, but he was never seen as his literal equal. I'm not sure what expectations should have been there at that point.

As for our asks from Nashville, I still like Pettersson. I don't think we can pry Fabbro or that Russian kid they have in the Q from them. Trevor Murphy could be interesting. Not too old, and has produced well in the AHL. Like Washington, I wouldn't be hung up on getting a first from them for anything. Go for one of their better prospects and a later pick. Their first is likely to be in the 20s somewhere, and I like our chances of getting a good NHLer more from picking over their system and getting a reasonable pick, than just trying to capitalize on a late 1st.

Those players likewise didn't get big auditions and needed more time. I don't think Jarnkrok was ready to burden the minutes Sheahan did that year down the stretch. It is what it is now. Janmark and Jarnkrok are nice players, they don't change our current plight in fact they are likely blocking some of the guys we are playing now. It is easy to say they screw up Helm's ice time or somebody most of us want to see in a more reduced role tonight notwithstanding. However, we don't know the ripple effect either.

What we need is elite talent, true difference makers. We have some nice pieces, we have some big potential pieces, we need a few of those no doubters. Those are hard to get, but it is what we need at this point or an unexpected development from a couple of guys to become that. Still I don't hate the young players we have going, but they need the big two #1 D and #1C to slot them in correctly. The big one being the #1D for me, I could see the youngsters up front along with the inevitable couple more picks spent on forwards being enough if we could fix the back-end more. We all know this, it is a dead horse but figuring out that will be important over the next couple of years. The prospects we lost don't change that massively in my opinion, I wish that it did but it really doesn't change our spot which as your tagline says is rebuilding since Lidstrom, which while I am not in total agreement is the point where night in and night out we had to worry whether or not we could win. I was always confident in games with #5 back there.

I think the Preds have some interesting guys. I think Washington has some interesting guys. If we are after picks Vegas could be an interesting partner for either Green or Nyquist who fit their game well in my opinion. Moving Nyquist though has two components, it gives his role to a younger core member (it better or the people howling will be dead on right) and hopefully a couple more kicks at the can on prospects or picks. I think we are also building towards an identity that probably doesn't include Nyquist or Tatar. I think Nyquist is more ideally suited to play with the big bodied players we have on the way up as he has a history of liking that, but this team seems to be building towards a pounding identity and those two don't fit. I don't think you have to be totally sold out there but I just cannot see either guy being a part of this team when we are good again, so if the offer is fair both Nyquist and Tatar should be moved.

 

[Nut Upstrom]

Good post, pretty spot on. It truly baffles me that 5 years later, people can be this upset that we lost a 3rd liner for what at the time was a perceived chance to make the playoffs. Sure it would be nice to have a guy like Jarnkrok now, it would be another asset, but it wouldn't really change anything in the grand scheme of things.

I am pretty sure that most teams would trade a future 3rd liner if they believed it was the difference between making the playoffs or not making the playoffs.

At the time of the trade the attitude here was pretty incensed about the trade. I remember the Detroit HF posters being quite high on Jarnkrok, so people being upset about the trade isn't really a five years later sort of reaction; it was just an unpopular trade amongst Wings fans who knew who Jarnkrok was and I don't think anyone saw Legwand as our ticket to the post-season. The people who were ticked off by that trade when it happened are probably still ticked off by that trade. They were right then and they are right now. I know that I was annoyed by the trade, but I based my reaction only on reading posters here and their praise and high expectations regarding Jarnkrok, I had no first-hand knowledge of Calle. Of course it did come out later that Jarnkrok had threatened to return to Sweden if he didn't get NHL time, but in hind sight that trade still looks bad, and many posters here were right on the money saying so at the time.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

At the time of the trade the attitude here was pretty incensed about the trade. I remember the Detroit HF posters being quite high on Jarnkrok, so people being upset about the trade isn't really a five years later sort of reaction; it was just an unpopular trade amongst Wings fans who knew who Jarnkrok was and I don't think anyone saw Legwand as our ticket to the post-season. The people who were ticked off by that trade when it happened are probably still ticked off by that trade. They were right then and they are right now. I know that I was annoyed by the trade, but I based my reaction only on reading posters here and their praise and high expectations regarding Jarnkrok, I had no first-hand knowledge of Calle. Of course it did come out later that Jarnkrok had threatened to return to Sweden if he didn't get NHL time, but in hind sight that trade still looks bad, and many posters here were right on the money saying so at the time.

I was very annoyed initially that he was included, but we found out a decent amount more why later.

It was also interesting that the insider guys on trade deadline day seemed to know all was not well with Detroit and Jarnkrok, so I think that had made its way around the league.

 

[kliq]

At the time of the trade the attitude here was pretty incensed about the trade. I remember the Detroit HF posters being quite high on Jarnkrok, so people being upset about the trade isn't really a five years later sort of reaction; it was just an unpopular trade amongst Wings fans who knew who Jarnkrok was and I don't think anyone saw Legwand as our ticket to the post-season. The people who were ticked off by that trade when it happened are probably still ticked off by that trade. They were right then and they are right now. I know that I was annoyed by the trade, but I based my reaction only on reading posters here and their praise and high expectations regarding Jarnkrok, I had no first-hand knowledge of Calle. Of course it did come out later that Jarnkrok had threatened to return to Sweden if he didn't get NHL time, but in hind sight that trade still looks bad, and many posters here were right on the money saying so at the time.

That's exactly my point, they were mad back in 2014 (sorry I said 2013 earlier), and now that we are in 2018 it baffles me how mad they still are. I think it the past 2 months I have read about this trade like 4 times in multiple threads by a few posters who get very very emotional over it. If it were a new reaction because he broke out and became a superstar I would completely get it, but at the end of the day he's a decent third liner, nothing to lose sleep over. We're not talking Seguin/Bos/Dal here.

In hindsight it was a bad trade, I'm not denying that. Unfortunately I'm expecting the usual's to counter what I am saying with reasons why it was a bad trade, hopefully they realize what I am actually trying to say here. With that being said, I get why the Wings did it, right or wrong they thought Legwand could be the difference between making the playoffs or ending the streak and at that point in time D and Z were nearing the end of their windows, sort of similar to where I think Chicago is right now. Most teams in that spot will trade what they consider a lower level prospect for a guy they they think is a difference maker. Sure I wish they got someone better then Legwand, especially after how he was used/performed, but whats done is done, no need to be mad 5 years later. Lets just move on.

As far as Nyquist goes, I really could see him doing well in Nashville. He would be on a lower line (ie. playing against inferior D) and could be a very good player for them. If we could get a nice pick or a D prospect, I would be ok with that, though I would be sad to see him go as he is one of my favs.

 

[kliq]

To be fair, Holland perceives pretty much every season as a possibility of making the playoffs and makes moves accordingly.

Up to 2015 yes, 2016 they did nothing, and 2017 and likely this year they are sellers.

 

[Nut Upstrom]

That's exactly my point, they were mad back in 2014 (sorry I said 2013 earlier), and now that we are in 2018 it baffles me how mad they still are. I think it the past 2 months I have read about this trade like 4 times in multiple threads by a few posters who get very very emotional over it. If it were a new reaction because he broke out and became a superstar I would completely get it, but at the end of the day he's a decent third liner, nothing to lose sleep over. We're not talking Seguin/Bos/Dal here.

In hindsight it was a bad trade, I'm not denying that. Unfortunately I'm expecting the usual's to counter what I am saying with reasons why it was a bad trade, hopefully they realize what I am actually trying to say here. With that being said, I get why the Wings did it, right or wrong they thought Legwand could be the difference between making the playoffs or ending the streak and at that point in time D and Z were nearing the end of their windows, sort of similar to where I think Chicago is right now. Most teams in that spot will trade what they consider a lower level prospect for a guy they they think is a difference maker. Sure I wish they got someone better then Legwand, especially after how he was used/performed, but whats done is done, no need to be mad 5 years later. Lets just move on.

As far as Nyquist goes, I really could see him doing well in Nashville. He would be on a lower line (ie. playing against inferior D) and could be a very good player for them. If we could get a nice pick or a D prospect, I would be ok with that, though I would be sad to see him go as he is one of my favs.

Seems that I partially missed your point. I agree with you, five years after the trade and it's time to let it go.

TZE, I remember it the same way you do, the initial reaction was total and almost unanimous outrage from the people here. News started to filter in toward the end of that deadline day about Jarnkrok's situation regarding the Wings and I think that may have cooled some voices, but the majority seemed to hold onto the outrage. I know I remained pretty peeved, that name was just too damn cool to trade away to Nashville, who I hated at the time with their "You Suck!" chants and their catfish.

On topic, I really like Nyquist and do not want to see him traded unless it brings us back a really solid D prospect - I'm talking top pair or at least a prospect who has solid #3 potential.

 

[waltdetroit]

When watching Iron Hook at GRG, he showed talent but did get pushed around most nights. He expressed that he wanted to go back to Sweden (maybe it was a ploy.) I think that made his value to the wings less.

a quote from By Dirk Hoag@Forechecker Mar 5, 2014, 4:30pm EST
Calle Jarnkrok

A 2010 2nd-round pick (51st overall) by Detroit, Jarnkrok is currently playing for the Red Wings' AHL affiliate the Grand Rapids Griffins. With 35 points in 57 games, he's producing pretty well in this, his first full North American season. There is concern that he might want to head back to Europe, so the Preds may have to do a job convincing him to stay over here.

 

[Winger98]

Those players likewise didn't get big auditions and needed more time. I don't think Jarnkrok was ready to burden the minutes Sheahan did that year down the stretch. It is what it is now. Janmark and Jarnkrok are nice players, they don't change our current plight in fact they are likely blocking some of the guys we are playing now. It is easy to say they screw up Helm's ice time or somebody most of us want to see in a more reduced role tonight notwithstanding. However, we don't know the ripple effect either.

What we need is elite talent, true difference makers. We have some nice pieces, we have some big potential pieces, we need a few of those no doubters. Those are hard to get, but it is what we need at this point or an unexpected development from a couple of guys to become that. Still I don't hate the young players we have going, but they need the big two #1 D and #1C to slot them in correctly. The big one being the #1D for me, I could see the youngsters up front along with the inevitable couple more picks spent on forwards being enough if we could fix the back-end more. We all know this, it is a dead horse but figuring out that will be important over the next couple of years. The prospects we lost don't change that massively in my opinion, I wish that it did but it really doesn't change our spot which as your tagline says is rebuilding since Lidstrom, which while I am not in total agreement is the point where night in and night out we had to worry whether or not we could win. I was always confident in games with #5 back there.

I think the Preds have some interesting guys. I think Washington has some interesting guys. If we are after picks Vegas could be an interesting partner for either Green or Nyquist who fit their game well in my opinion. Moving Nyquist though has two components, it gives his role to a younger core member (it better or the people howling will be dead on right) and hopefully a couple more kicks at the can on prospects or picks. I think we are also building towards an identity that probably doesn't include Nyquist or Tatar. I think Nyquist is more ideally suited to play with the big bodied players we have on the way up as he has a history of liking that, but this team seems to be building towards a pounding identity and those two don't fit. I don't think you have to be totally sold out there but I just cannot see either guy being a part of this team when we are good again, so if the offer is fair both Nyquist and Tatar should be moved.

Oh, I'd move both if the opportunity presented itself. The price used to be a "hockey trade," but if it's moving more towards futures then it might even start being likely. I don't think either brings in that high level piece I think we're both looking for, though.

My problem with the Jarnkrok/Janmark moves is the apparent philosophy shift of the organization at that time. I'm not even sure it was a shift, or even just a hiccup. It seemed that Holland almost took it personal that these guys weren't just instantly buying in, and then tried to put the hammer down a bit by not promoting them and then by shuffling them off to whoever would take them. I'm fine dealing them off, but we saw this franchise go way out of its way with a lot of guys before cutting and running. Then there was this group of swedes that included the four we've mentioned, and I'd add Almquist to it, who seem to have been given the cold shoulder. They all went off to various levels of success elsewhere, but it seemed like Holland was making some decisions that didn't entirely jive with what these guys should have been earning with their play on the ice, and with the lack of opportunity or the quickness of cutting the chord that Holland employed. It's a behavior we haven't seen Holland return to, either.

I'm fine dealing guys but I don't feel Holland managed his assets well here. It seems Holland found himself in a tight spot for maybe the first time in his career, or at least a tight spot that was unarguably part of his own doing (as opposed to the first lockout where the league mandated he essentially gut $40 million in salary overnight). And he blinked. And I wonder what happens if he stays on here, we hit some more tight spots, and if he can not blink.

Up to 2015 yes, 2016 they did nothing, and 2017 and likely this year they are sellers.

What summer did they sign Nielsen? When did they sign Daley? Those are moves to compete for the playoffs. I know there has been this shadow tank thing pushed, or that they are just signed to maintain culture or whatever, but that culture is winning and making the playoffs. That's Holland's goal. Credit to him to see a cluster bomb when it's happening and then deal guys off when the season blows up on him. But that explosion wasn't by design.

Losing to Florida tonight probably throws some cold water on it, but if the Wings keep pulling points out and creeping closer, I'm still curious what Holland would do as the TDL neared this year. If there is any sort of legitimate hope for the playoffs, I'm not sure he pulls the trigger on dealing anyone for futures.

 

[kliq]

What summer did they sign Nielsen? When did they sign Daley? Those are moves to compete for the playoffs. I know there has been this shadow tank thing pushed, or that they are just signed to maintain culture or whatever, but that culture is winning and making the playoffs. That's Holland's goal. Credit to him to see a cluster bomb when it's happening and then deal guys off when the season blows up on him. But that explosion wasn't by design.

Losing to Florida tonight probably throws some cold water on it, but if the Wings keep pulling points out and creeping closer, I'm still curious what Holland would do as the TDL neared this year. If there is any sort of legitimate hope for the playoffs, I'm not sure he pulls the trigger on dealing anyone for futures.

I was talking trade deadline, not off-season. Between seasons its pretty clear Holland wants to load up to make the playoffs, not denying that.

 

[Claypool]

I'm fine dealing guys but I don't feel Holland managed his assets well here.

These players had no value at the time they were traded. They were B-level prospects. Every organization has an abundance of them. They aren't all making the roster. Sometimes they turn out to be Jarnkrok (a serviceable player) or they turn out to be Nestrasil (KHL bound).

For all the crap people give Holland for making deals like Cole and Legwand, he still never moved any players like Larkin and Mantha. He hasn't dealt a first-round pick in six years. I imagine Babcock texted Holland every night during the 2013-14 season asking to get guys like Myers or Phanuef.

 

[Redder Winger]

You are the one who wrote "What an idiotic move that was, Mr I or not." So I commented based on that narrative, no revisionism here, sorry man. You take things way too personally.

And I wrote that in response to someone who suggested it was for Mr I

 

[kliq]

And I wrote that in response to someone who suggested it was for Mr I

And I commented based on that narrative, no need to get worked up. Lets move on.

 

[Winger98]

I was talking trade deadline, not off-season. Between seasons its pretty clear Holland wants to load up to make the playoffs, not denying that.

fair enough, I wasn't clear in my original reply.

These players had no value at the time they were traded. They were B-level prospects. Every organization has an abundance of them. They aren't all making the roster. Sometimes they turn out to be Jarnkrok (a serviceable player) or they turn out to be Nestrasil (KHL bound).

For all the crap people give Holland for making deals like Cole and Legwand, he still never moved any players like Larkin and Mantha. He hasn't dealt a first-round pick in six years. I imagine Babcock texted Holland every night during the 2013-14 season asking to get guys like Myers or Phanuef.

So, you're saying Nestrasil and Jarnkrok were viewed as the same level of prospect? I think Nestrasil was always seen as a significantly lower prospect than Jarnkrok, and conflating the two is just wrong. You can make a generic statement about every prospect being a crapshoot to some degree, but this isn't a crapshoot where every roll has the same perceived value or odds.

Myers, meanwhile, would be our #1 D by a fairly large margin right now. Losing one of Larkin/Mantha for him is just the price that type of D is likely to cost us in any trade. And I don't recall anyone being thrilled with the idea of giving up a significant piece for Phaneuf. As it was, it seemed Toronto wanted one of Mantha/Larkin while Holland responded with, "how about these other guys and you eat half his contract?" And it nearly worked.

 

[Claypool]

So, you're saying Nestrasil and Jarnkrok were viewed as the same level of prospect? I think Nestrasil was always seen as a significantly lower prospect than Jarnkrok, and conflating the two is just wrong. You can make a generic statement about every prospect being a crapshoot to some degree, but this isn't a crapshoot where every roll has the same perceived value or odds.

I would say there was an equal level of venom hurled Holland's way when he traded Jarnkrok and when he waived Nestrisil to keep Dan Cleary. If it weren't for his back injury Nestrisil is probably still in the NHL putting up similar numbers to Jarnkrok. I think the fact that Calle was Swedish definitely made Red Wings fans over hype him where as NHL scouts and managers had him correctly projected as a 3rd line player (much like Nestrisil).

Myers, meanwhile, would be our #1 D by a fairly large margin right now. Losing one of Larkin/Mantha for him is just the price that type of D is likely to cost us in any trade. And I don't recall anyone being thrilled with the idea of giving up a significant piece for Phaneuf. As it was, it seemed Toronto wanted one of Mantha/Larkin while Holland responded with, "how about these other guys and you eat half his contract?" And it nearly worked.

Myers wouldn't be any better or worse than Mike Green. Four years ago people talked about Myers being a future 50-point, Norris trophy winner and that Holland missed out again. If Myers were on the market again his value would be a lot lower.

 

[Winger98]

I would say there was an equal level of venom hurled Holland's way when he traded Jarnkrok and when he waived Nestrisil to keep Dan Cleary. If it weren't for his back injury Nestrisil is probably still in the NHL putting up similar numbers to Jarnkrok. I think the fact that Calle was Swedish definitely made Red Wings fans over hype him where as NHL scouts and managers had him correctly projected as a 3rd line player (much like Nestrisil).

Myers wouldn't be any better or worse than Mike Green. Four years ago people talked about Myers being a future 50-point, Norris trophy winner and that Holland missed out again. If Myers were on the market again his value would be a lot lower.

Yeah, I think you're misrepresenting Myers entirely. Guy's been a #1D for years, playing in all situations, routinely being among his team's PK leaders as well as power play and ES. That's essentially the opposite of Green.

And the level of invective towards Holland doesn't reflect where either player was necessarily seen as a prospect. You ignore context of each move and people's reactions. Jarnkrok was to Nestrasil as XO was to Richard Nedomiel. If you want to take the stance that it was a move that didn't hurt us because the player didn't match his expectations, great, go for it. There's some truth to that. I don't see that truth in the idea the Wings drafted him believing he was a third liner.

I'm fine agreeing to disagree on this.

 

[Redder Winger]

I really believed he would be a monster on the PP. Which is where he did a lot of damage as a younger player. He had a Backstrom light quality there where he just killed people once space opened up over in Europe. He seems to not have been able to make the adjustment to the tighter boxes run in NA. But that is where I thought Jarnkrok would make a living which is why Zetterberg and Backstrom as countrymen examples made sense. He was dependable two way but would rack up points on the PP. Maybe he will develop there as he does get run occasionally with the Preds but he just hasn't been as good on the PP as I expected.

Jarnkrok ultimately threatened to leave. His time in Detroit was over, we could have hung on to him and felt as good as we have about Dick Axelsson and Johan Ryno. Who for the record are both very good players in Sweden that is basically what we were left with. He was beaten out for a job by Riley Sheahan. He really was at the time, it is unfortunate but he wasn't ready. It is the same reason the Preds kept him down, but obviously he was willing to give them more leeway than the Wings where the relationship had gotten a little rocky in my opinion.

Jarnkrok went home and whined to anybody that would listen at the Christmas break and Holland did something this board complains he doesn't do very often. He sold when the writing was on the wall.

I think Nyquist is a great fit for Nashville and they have some D-man we could take a look at for sure. Removing one of Tatar or Nyquist from this team needs to happen before the draft is over.

Writing on the wall?
That's crazy.
Here he is all these years later an NHLer.

So much for writing on the wall.

And you can claim that he went home and whined "to anyone that would listen."
But that smacks of hyperbole at best and smearing BS at worst.

The fact of the matter is that for the first 30 games of the season, Jarnkrok was playing behind Sheahan, behind Emmerton, and behind Ferraro. (Behind Glenny for a spell, too)
He was being used sparingly and he didn't see the f***ing point.

When Sheahan and Jurco got called up, Sheahan got a top 6 job with PP time.
Lo and behold, he responded and was much better in the second half.

But whatever, Jarnkrok, 26, is playing for a better team today, on a sweetheart deal, too.
We've got 33 year old Frans Nielsen and traded away Sheahan and Jurco for next to nothing so we could keep older, worse players around.

 

[Claypool]

Yeah, I think you're misrepresenting Myers entirely. Guy's been a #1D for years, playing in all situations, routinely being among his team's PK leaders as well as power play and ES. That's essentially the opposite of Green.

Myers has never been a #1 defenseman in Winnipeg. If he was a true #1 defenseman in Buffalo he wouldn't have been traded in the first place (certainly not on his generous contract).

Norris Trophy Voting:

Mike Green
07-08: 7th
08-09: 2nd
09-10: 2nd

Tyler Myers
09-10: 15th
10-11: 16th

So you're telling me a guy who's been a #1 defenseman "for years" has never finished as high as 15th for Norris voting?