[NYI/WSH] Halak for CHI's 4th in '14

[Zoidberg Jesus]

I saw that... but your first part contradicted it. If he's the 2nd best available, his stock goes up, not down.

Look, this is my opinion, it doesn't mean you're not correct. We'll agree to disagree.

Why would it go up? The only thing that changes is how much time the team acquiring his rights has before he hits the open market. Two players in recent memory have had their rights traded twice in the same offseason: Hamhuis and Ehrhoff. The Flyers gave up Ryan Parent for Hamhuis' rights, couldn't get him signed, and ended up trading him for a 3rd to the Pens. Parent wasn't a great prospect, but he spent half that season with the Flyers, so I think he was worth more than a 3rd. The Islanders traded their 4th for the rights to Ehrhoff, but Snow couldn't sign him and he traded him to the Sabres for a lower 4th a day later. Less time to get a deal done means the rights are worth less, it's pretty simple.

 

[InfernalDark*]

Wake me up when we trade Mojo.

But.. we need a soft euro

 

[BTCG]

Why would it go up? The only thing that changes is how much time the team acquiring his rights has before he hits the open market. Two players in recent memory have had their rights traded twice in the same offseason: Hamhuis and Ehrhoff. The Flyers gave up Ryan Parent for Hamhuis' rights, couldn't get him signed, and ended up trading him for a 3rd to the Pens. Parent wasn't a great prospect, but he spent half that season with the Flyers, so I think he was worth more than a 3rd. The Islanders traded their 4th for the rights to Ehrhoff, but Snow couldn't sign him and he traded him to the Sabres for a lower 4th a day later. Less time to get a deal done means the rights are worth less, it's pretty simple.

When teams are forced to wait, their desperation increases. True in any business.

 

[FloridaCap]

The thing I like the least, actually, is giving a top ~15 goalie to a team in our division who might just be a top ~15 goalie away from really competing.

I think I'd just take my chances and let him walk and hope there's a more attractive team than NYI.

 

[Devil Dancer]

I would like to have re-signed Halak, if his terms were reasonable. But I'm not in the game, so I don't know what his demands are like.

 

[Calicaps]

I would like to have re-signed Halak, if his terms were reasonable. But I'm not in the game, so I don't know what his demands are like.

He could still be had. All this promises NYI is that he's there's 'til July 1. Something for nothing.

 

[Zoidberg Jesus]

When teams are forced to wait, their desperation increases. True in any business.

The fact that the price for Ehrhoff - a 28 year old top pairing defenseman coming off a SCF run- was basically the same 3 days from free agency as the price for Halak 2 months from free agency would seem to refute that. Either Halak is a far more desired player than Ehrhoff or teams pay less for less time to negotiate. They don't get desperate when all they have to do is wait and they'll be able to negotiate with the guy.

 

[BTCG]

The fact that the price for Ehrhoff - a 28 year old top pairing defenseman coming off a SCF run- was basically the same 3 days from free agency as the price for Halak 2 months from free agency would seem to refute that. Either Halak is a far more desired player than Ehrhoff or teams pay less for less time to negotiate. They don't get desperate when all they have to do is wait and they'll be able to negotiate with the guy.

Your answer isn't germane to the statement you cite.

 

[Chokingdogs]

He could still be had. All this promises NYI is that he's there's 'til July 1. Something for nothing.

yep...regardless of the fact that .094% of 4th round picks make the nhl.

how many UFAs to be of "value" have we seen walk for the proverbial, and literal, nothing?

methinks halak either wanted to be paid #1 dollars, or be paid a little less knowing he's got a legit shot at being a #1.

here, with holtby, the latter is up in the air. and if anybody bothered to look at the the isle's goalie situation, they'd see it's ripe for a player of halak's ilk to walk into and get a legit #1 opportunity.

or, he saw enough of this train wreck that he wouldnt sign for any price. lol

 

[BTCG]

I would like to have re-signed Halak, if his terms were reasonable. But I'm not in the game, so I don't know what his demands are like.

Agreed.

Is your avatar a drawing of the SETI site?

 

[BTCG]

yep...regardless of the fact that .094% of 4th round picks make the nhl.

how many UFAs to be of "value" have we seen walk for the proverbial, and literal, nothing?

methinks halak either wanted to be paid #1 dollars, or be paid a little less knowing he's got a legit shot at being a #1.

here, with holtby, the latter is up in the air. and if anybody bothered to look at the the isle's goalie situation, they'd see it's ripe for a player of halak's ilk to walk into and get a legit #1 opportunity.

or, he saw enough of this train wreck that he wouldnt sign for any price. lol

Well, you were a member of the ESPN board, so you would know. I seem to recall that it was like one out of every 16 spent some time on our roster. Still, a very low percentage.

Show of hands: how many of those reading this knew this?

 

[InfernalDark*]

Wow, we got almost the same from Perrruuuttu. Shocking. Or not.

 

[NobodyBeatsTheWiz]

Are people really getting worked up about Jaroslav Halak?

The goalie that either didn't have the balls to play his old team or didn't have the balls to stand up to his coach and call him out on his ********?

 

[BTCG]

Are people really getting worked up about Jaroslav Halak?

The goalie that either didn't have the balls to play his old team or didn't have the balls to stand up to his coach and call him out on his ********?

It's just a discussion. Instead of complaining, add to it.

 

[Liberati0n*]

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=659301

                   at least 1 game    at least 50 games    at least 200 games
picks 1-30	  91.6 %                76.1 %	            62.1 %
picks 31-60	  66.7 %	     44.2 %	            28.6 %
picks 61-90	  53.7 %	     35.6 %	            23.3 %
picks 91-120	  38.6 %	     23.2 %	            14.6 %
picks 121-150	  29.6 %	     18.1 %	            11.8 %
picks 151-180	  28.4 %	     16.7 %	            11.8 %
picks 181-210	  22.5 %	     12.1 %	              6.8 %
picks 211-240	  23.0 %	     11.8 %	              7.4 %

 

[BTCG]

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=659301

I think that's 'all' picks.

But, useful, still. Thank you!

 

[BTCG]

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=659301

Still, the picks are divided, I assume, correctly.


My study didn't back quite as far... but even 14 out of every 100.... not much.

 

[FloridaCap]

Are people really getting worked up about Jaroslav Halak?

The goalie that either didn't have the balls to play his old team or didn't have the balls to stand up to his coach and call him out on his ********?

Was there a single player on our team that had the balls to call out Oates?

Other than subtle shots here and there from Alzner, I don't recall any.

 

[usiel]

Was there a single player on our team that had the balls to call out Oates?

Other than subtle shots here and there from Alzner, I don't recall any.

Nah..honestly it would be worse if the players were pubic-ally/bashing oates with as little of games as a season in a half.

 

[ryan519*]

never know what you're gonna get with a 4th. a lot of big name players were drafted in later rounds

 

[RandyHolt]

Ted: Hey we got a 4th for you to help to get you started.
New GM: I kind of liked Halak, but thanks?

You are a new GM coming to a team clearly in a win now mode WRT to Ovi, Teds desire to fill the building etc.

Would you rather have a 4th rounder, or exclusive negotiating rights with a proven 1? Which is a more valuable asset?

Save the we have Holtby talk, Halak could have been signed and later traded for much more than a paltry 4th. Maybe NuGM wanted to see which of the 2 Gs performs better in his firewagon system. Which is a Grant Fuhr. Who knows what he wants.

It seems Dick is playing GM or has been for some time now. I hope this doesn't limit our candidates that want power. Dick wants Holtby and that is fine, but is it fine with the new GM for him to rush to peddle Halak for a 4th, to do him a presumed favor?

 

[NobodyBeatsTheWiz]

Was there a single player on our team that had the balls to call out Oates?

Other than subtle shots here and there from Alzner, I don't recall any.

There weren't any other players who he (supposedly) made up something about with regards to not wanting to play.

 

[g00n]

Halak did not want to be here enough to invest money in him. The flap with him punking out AND his agent yapping about it in the PRESS was enough to piss off ownership and show them this guy is not committed to DC and is ripe for issues. Whatever sentiments about money or other factors from Halak's end that came out after that would only add to the strikes against keeping him as far as the Caps management would be concerned, imo.

This team just cleaned out their GM of 17 years and a coach with another year on his contract. They are not going to pony up big money for a UFA rented by the previous GM, especially with all the issues involved, and with a cheaper goalie that's been with the team for years who's potentially as good or better already on the roster. Even with Oates ****ing with him, Holtby had some great moments and put up numbers close to Halak's. And when you compare career playoff numbers they're very similar, with a slight edge to Holtby, iirc.

You are also not going to pay Halak twice as much as Holtby to be a backup, so if you're keeping him you have to deal with the loyalty issues and make him a starter because he isn't taking less money than Holtby. The fact that a team traded a pick for negotiation rights indicates there's probably at least a few interested bidders out there so he wouldn't be cheap, if he'd even want to stay. Then you're throwing 4 or 5 million of your cap space at a starter with questionable motivation who may not be significantly better than your $2M guy, whose development arc will again be put on hold or moved farther backwards.

Caps were a motivated seller here. Getting ANYTHING for Halak is a win. A new GM will have discussions with ownership about direction coming in, so it's likely they would've communicated their opinion on Halak to him just as they would Ovechkin or any other player whose role they believe to be mostly settled. I wouldn't expect a newly hired GM to walk in and trade Ovechkin right away, and I wouldn't expect him to show up and quickly throw a bunch of money at Halak, either.

 

[Hivemind]

For once, g00n and I are on the same page.

Would you rather have a 4th rounder, or exclusive negotiating rights with a proven 1? Which is a more valuable asset?

If one party or another has no intention of turning those negotiating rights into a contract? The 4th.

Besides, is Halak really a "proven #1?" He was in competition with Price in Montreal. Then he was in competition with Elliott in St. Louis, before being shipped off so they could bring in Miller as a rental. Then he entered the Oates hot-goalie carousel with Holtby in Washington. He's started more than 50 games in a season just once in his career, and never breached 60. He's taken a team outside of the first round in the playoffs just once in his career, and played a whopping two playoff games during his time with the Blues. Hell, Holtby has only two fewer playoff games played at this point than Halak.

 

[txpd]

When teams are forced to wait, their desperation increases. True in any business.

I think you are discounting that the closer it is to the free agent deadline the less time there is to get a deal done with the player. that would mean a great chance of failing that.

personally, I don't see the drama here. why is this kicking up a little storm?

what's next? Is someone going to claim that Halak really wants to stay and Holtby wants out?