Hivemind
We're Touched
Oh my... for the 3rd and last time, we are talking about NOW!!! not a couple of years. Figure it out man
Fine. This thread will be fun to bump in December.
Oh my... for the 3rd and last time, we are talking about NOW!!! not a couple of years. Figure it out man
Which goalie delivered his team a playoff series victory...a small hint it starts with GREI...
who knows Grubaurer is a very fine backup behind a 2X president trophy winner team who hasn't even sniffed playoff experience so MAYBE he ends up being a legit starter, maybe not. I'm more than fine living with a current NHL starter than a possibility.
By this metric Price, Bobrovosky, and Dubnyk must be trash.
Why is playoff experience the qualifier we're using instead off, I don't know, straight statistics?
Greiss is a career backup on several teams, but because he has officially one playoff series win under his belt he now has the trump card? He's 31 and it took him to this point in his career to be a teams starter and that is largely in part to the fact that his competition was Jaroslav Halak.
Grubauer is 25 and has only ever served as an NHL backup to the reigning Vezina trophy winner. Statistically he is better, he is younger, his ceiling is higher, and his contract is cheaper. You're kidding yourself if you think the value of these guys is equivalent.
Continue citing the fact that Grubauer is a back up on a very good team as reasoning for why he's not as valuable, I'll be over here looking at how Greiss was unable to start on a variety of slightly above average teams for the majority of his career.
Not sure why greiss past is relevant here. Don't think he's arguing value but greiss is easily the better goalie currently
You're arguing he's better currently because he's as starter, I'm showing you he's only a starter because he has no competition not because of individual merit and his past supports this. The roll of "starter" is irrelevant in "who is better", lots of terrible goalies have started in this league while other teams had significantly better ones on the bench. Every metric supports that Grubauer is better beyond the made up "he won a playoff series" and "he's a starter".
Isles fans hatred of anything Washington is really a spectacle to behold. Really impressive, to be honest.
Isles fans hatred of anything Washington is really a spectacle to behold. Really impressive, to be honest.
Halak isn't no competition. Not the strongest but it's absolutely competition. Grubauer starts against bad teams and I feel bad for you if you think his stats as a backup are relevant. Look at bernier. Remember chad Johnsons season with the bruins? Greiss is better until grubauer proves otherwise which we will hopefully find out this year. Solid numbers as a backup on a stacked team do not mean anything. Then you consider the variables of the workload and mentality of starting etc. if grubauer was such a capable starter someone would've traded for him by now like cam talbot
As an isles fan no interest in grubauer and no, you are out of your friggin mind if you think he will cost a 1st + lmao
Isles fans hatred of anything Washington is really a spectacle to behold. Really impressive, to be honest.
Please provide a specific example of this, because I haven't seen it. The argument most similar to this is, "Our starting goaltender is better than your backup because he is a starting goaltender" as if GP was the most important stat when evaluating a player's ability.You guys are literally arguing that your 23-game backup goaltender is superior to our starting goaltender because you say so.
Please provide a specific example of this, because I haven't seen it. The argument most similar to this is, "Our starting goaltender is better than your backup because he is a starting goaltender" as if GP was the most important stat when evaluating a player's ability.
One is a starting goalie that has lead their team to the 2nd round of the playoffs.
The other spends 75% of the season sitting on the bench making sure not to get in Ovechkin's way. But you want specific examples, right? Some sort of argument?
Here are the backup goalies for the last seven winners of the President's Trophy and their stats on the year:
16-17 - Grabauer (WSH) 2.04 GAA / .926 SV%
15-16 - Grabauer (WSH) 2.32 GAA / .918 SV%
14-15 - Cam Talbot (NYR) 2.21 GAA / .926 SV%
13-14 - Chad Johnson (BOS) 2.10 GAA / .925 SV%
12-13 - Ray Emery (CHI) 1.94 GAA / .922 SV%
11-12 - Corey Schneider (VAN) 1.96 GAA / .937 SV%
10-11 - Corey Schenider (VAN) 2.23 GAA / .929 SV%
What low GAAs and high save percentages they have! Surely this can only mean Chad Johnson is an elite NHL goaltender and not that backup goaltenders on incredibly strong teams always have inflated stats because - wait for it - they play on incredibly strong teams. Grabauer in 15-16 actually has the worst numbers of the bunch.
Yet even then, guys like Schneider actively challenge their starters with their play and guys like Talbot take advantage of injuries to prove they can handle an everyday NHL workload, not a 25% of the season workload. This makes other teams who need goaltending covet them, however Grabauer has done neither of those things. All he's done is put up Chad Johnson numbers because hockey coaching 101 tells you to play Holtby when you're facing the Penguins and play Grabauer when you're facing the Devils to give yourself the best shot to win both games.
Okay, your turn.
Halak isn't no competition. Not the strongest but it's absolutely competition. Grubauer starts against bad teams and I feel bad for you if you think his stats as a backup are relevant. Look at bernier. Remember chad Johnsons season with the bruins? Greiss is better until grubauer proves otherwise which we will hopefully find out this year. Solid numbers as a backup on a stacked team do not mean anything. Then you consider the variables of the workload and mentality of starting etc. if grubauer was such a capable starter someone would've traded for him by now like cam talbot
Uses a list with Cam Talbot and Corey Schneider to make point that backup goalies on President Trophy teams aren't that good
Bold strategy Cotton
So you're saying that there is the potential for a backup to be an All-Star?Nothing like the strategy of deliberately missing the point. Here, I'll make it big and red so it's easier to read for you, maybe that'll make it easier to address my actual argument:
BACKUP GOALIES ON PRESIDENTS TROPHY TEAMS HAVE INFLATED NUMBERS NO MATTER IF THEY'RE COREY SCHENIDER OR CHAD JOHNSON
So you're saying that there is the potential for a backup to be an All-Star?
/Giant Red Font How can you be sure which end of the spectrum Grubauer will be on if he hasn't had a chance to show it? /Giant Red Font
Before you bring up what you think is relevant from your other post, let me remind you that Grubauer would have had to have been the best goalie in the league to unseat Holtby the last two years and Holtby has almost never been hurt.
None of what I said is wrong or mutually exclusive. I have no idea how you might think otherwise. Playing behind a two-time Vezina finalist that doesn't get hurt doesn't exclude the possibility that Grubauer is better than Thomas Greiss.I provide a legitimate argument and use statistics to back up my point.
You say "how do you know Grabauer isn't the next Corey Schneider?"
And then "Grabauer plays behind Holtby!"
Uses a list with Cam Talbot and Corey Schneider to make point that backup goalies on President Trophy teams aren't that good
Bold strategy Cotton
None of what I said is wrong or mutually exclusive. I have no idea how you might think otherwise. Playing behind a two-time Vezina finalist that doesn't get hurt doesn't exclude the possibility that Grubauer is better than Thomas Greiss.
You did no such thing. You showed a range of possibilities. Based on that range of possibilities, can you somehow make a definitive statement that Grubauer is a lesser goalie than Greiss?