WWE: NXT Part 6 -- The Dream has no memory of that

[scrubadam]

Explain Dillinger.

Just not a main event talent. HE was in the PC for like 10 years he is lucky he made the WWE.

Not everyone is going to become a ME in the WWE but for every Dillinger there is an AJ styles or Kevin Owens or Seth Rollins.

Its not the early 90's anymore where Vince is obsesses with roided up talentless schlubs (except for Jinder LOL). Its the indy era in WWE.

 

[scrubadam]

Like anyone in NXT is going to make that much.

Kazuchika Okada made $2M USD iirc last year.

The Young Bucks made $600k or something like that last year and had already made that much by the beginning of summer this year. Kenny Omega and Cody Rhodes are probably making at least $1M at this point (Cody said he's making 3x what he did in WWE and his WWE contract was in the $400k range).

And would Cody be making a fraction of that if he wasn't in the WWE before? The fact that he was on WWE TV is one of the reasons he can ask for so much per booking.

The Bucks would not make as much in WWE that I agree. Not as much $$$ in tag team wrestling and I can't see them getting as over there. They are also really good business men and know how to market themselvs and their products.

But you become a bigger star and can ask for more money after doing a WWE stint. Become a champion and you can get even more $$$.

I am sure the top indy guys can make a good amount of money if they hustle, deal with the carniest of the carney's and are always on their toes. But after 10 years would Silas Young make more money on teh indy's or having a WWE career? And then after 10 years would he be able to make more money as former WWE IC champ or as former ROH star?

 

[Kimi]

Just not a main event talent. HE was in the PC for like 10 years he is lucky he made the WWE.

Not everyone is going to become a ME in the WWE but for every Dillinger there is an AJ styles or Kevin Owens or Seth Rollins.

Its not the early 90's anymore where Vince is obsesses with roided up talentless schlubs (except for Jinder LOL). Its the indy era in WWE.

Explain Cass, Jinder, Jordan, Corbin, Strowman.

 

[Kimi]

And would Cody be making a fraction of that if he wasn't in the WWE before? The fact that he was on WWE TV is one of the reasons he can ask for so much per booking.

The Bucks would not make as much in WWE that I agree. Not as much $$$ in tag team wrestling and I can't see them getting as over there. They are also really good business men and know how to market themselvs and their products.

But you become a bigger star and can ask for more money after doing a WWE stint. Become a champion and you can get even more $$$.

I am sure the top indy guys can make a good amount of money if they hustle, deal with the carniest of the carney's and are always on their toes. But after 10 years would Silas Young make more money on teh indy's or having a WWE career? And then after 10 years would he be able to make more money as former WWE IC champ or as former ROH star?

Explain Ryback.

 

[scrubadam]

Explain Cass, Jinder, Jordan, Corbin, Strowman.

Explain Seth/Ambros/Styles/Owens/Bryan/Punk.

Plenty of people with talent make it.

And Jordan is very talented and so is Strowman.

Why is Nak being pushed 6 months in to a title program? Or Roode is going to be pushed to the moon?

Vince will always default to pushing a big guy, but if they aren't talented they will eventually fade away. Lots of big stiffs got a big push and turned into nothing.

Not sure how you can look at todays WWE roster and say talent doesn't mean anything when a huge % are all indy guys.

 

[scrubadam]

Explain Ryback.

What about Ryback? Didn't the guy ask for huge $$$ after he was released from WWE? You think Skip Sheffield would ask for thousands of $$$ for his bookings never being in the WWE?

I am not saying you can't make some decent coin outside the WWE. If you are a top indy guy you can hustle your way to a decent living.

But WWE offers the chance to make even more money, and when you are done there you can ask to be paid even more as a former WWE star.

 

[Kimi]

Explain Seth/Ambros/Styles/Owens/Bryan/Punk.

Plenty of people with talent make it.

And Jordan is very talented and so is Strowman.

Why is Nak being pushed 6 months in to a title program? Or Roode is going to be pushed to the moon?

Vince will always default to pushing a big guy, but if they aren't talented they will eventually fade away. Lots of big stiffs got a big push and turned into nothing.

Not sure how you can look at todays WWE roster and say talent doesn't mean anything when a huge % are all indy guys.

Do you not understand that talented guys and non-talented guys both get pushed? And that because of that the deciding factor between two people isn't talent?

And Jordan is fine, just Gable is better in every single way. In fact, Jordan was a complete failure before Gable came along. Jordan got the push.

 

[Kimi]

What about Ryback? Didn't the guy ask for huge $$$ after he was released from WWE? You think Skip Sheffield would ask for thousands of $$$ for his bookings never being in the WWE?

I am not saying you can't make some decent coin outside the WWE. If you are a top indy guy you can hustle your way to a decent living.

But WWE offers the chance to make even more money, and when you are done there you can ask to be paid even more as a former WWE star.

Cody asks for more.

The point is that being ex-WWE means nothing. Being a star is the single important factor.

And these guys are not living some terrible life outside WWE. They are being paid six-figures, that's far more than 'decent'. This is a new era of indy wrestling, it's massively different from even five years ago. It's not a sketchy business in the slightest, if anything it's more professional than the reports of WWE that we get.

 

[scrubadam]

Do you not understand that talented guys and non-talented guys both get pushed? And that because of that the deciding factor between two people isn't talent?

And Jordan is fine, just Gable is better in every single way. In fact, Jordan was a complete failure before Gable came along. Jordan got the push.

You said talent means nothing, but it clearly does. And talent in wrestling is defined in different ways. Hulk Hogan wasn't Bret Hart but he was talented in drawing money and on the mic.

My only point is guys who are known for being good at fake wrestling get pushed in the WWE and usually have longer and more successful careers than guys who are big.

Even most big guys in WWE are pretty talented in the ring. A guy like Strowman is very talented he isn't some big fat guy who can't work.

Gable is good but so is Jordan as far as ring work goes. You called him nothing but also asked me to explain Dillinger who was a whole lot of nothing along with Jordan before Gable came along too. Jordan's getting a push because they like him in the front office. And its floundering and looks like he isn't in the IC picture as of now. Which proves if you flop you lose your spot. Gable will get to tag with Shelton. Who knows in a year from now Gable might be a mutli time tag team champ and Jordan will be a footnote in WWE history as Angles failed illegitimate son.

I guess I am just not as negative on the WWE. To me the cream will rise to the top there. It might not be easy and there is a lot of politics but if you put butts in the seat you will become a star.

 

[scrubadam]

Cody asks for more.

The point is that being ex-WWE means nothing. Being a star is the single important factor.

And these guys are not living some terrible life outside WWE. They are being paid six-figures, that's far more than 'decent'. This is a new era of indy wrestling, it's massively different from even five years ago. It's not a sketchy business in the slightest, if anything it's more professional than the reports of WWE that we get.

Being ex-WWE is what makes you a star. Why does GWF/TNA always push WWE rejects? Cody would not be ROH champ if he didn't go through WWE.

And I have said that the top guys can make good money if they are good at hustling outside the WWE. But I bet most of them if they translate what they do outside the WWE to the WWE they can make more. I highly doubt AJ Styles would of made 2.4 Million last year working NJPW/TNA/ROH etc... Sure he could of made a Million and been very happy.

Anyways I think the debate went off track. My only point is that you can't make the upper limit of WWE money outside WWE. No one outside WWE is touching Cena's 8 Million a year. I doubt anyone is touching Romans 3.3 Million. Most won't achieve that in the wrestling business but if you want that shot you have to go to the WWE. I am sure the bucks are happy making 600K rather than working at Walmart or wherever making 50k a year. But if HHH said you will make 3 million a year in WWE that probably sounds very interesting to them.

 

[M.C.G. 31]

Being ex-WWE is what makes you a star. Why does GWF/TNA always push WWE rejects? Cody would not be ROH champ if he didn't go through WWE.

And I have said that the top guys can make good money if they are good at hustling outside the WWE. But I bet most of them if they translate what they do outside the WWE to the WWE they can make more. I highly doubt AJ Styles would of made 2.4 Million last year working NJPW/TNA/ROH etc... Sure he could of made a Million and been very happy.

Anyways I think the debate went off track. My only point is that you can't make the upper limit of WWE money outside WWE. No one outside WWE is touching Cena's 8 Million a year. I doubt anyone is touching Romans 3.3 Million. Most won't achieve that in the wrestling business but if you want that shot you have to go to the WWE. I am sure the bucks are happy making 600K rather than working at Walmart or wherever making 50k a year. But if HHH said you will make 3 million a year in WWE that probably sounds very interesting to them.

If I'm on The Bucks schedule with my creative control, control of schedule, etc., and Triple H tells me he'll pay me $3-million to work a full-time WWE schedule I'd probably still pass at that point.

$600,000 a year is a lot of money. $3-million is even more, but to be on the road 250-300 days a year isn't appealing much at all if you can make that much money working half those dates and having all the creative control and freedom you want. It's probably easier to do that travel if you don't have a family at home, but they do. It's not like they're scraping by on the indies. They're in a very good position. Now if they were making $80k on the indies and working just a bit less than the normal WWE schedule, that's a different story.

 

[Virtanen18]

Schedule control is really understated. Working the WWE schedule is not very easy or forgiving.

 

[Disclose]

im guessing control of merchandises also helps Indy wrestlers. not just certain percentage.

 

[Kimi]

Being ex-WWE is what makes you a star. Why does GWF/TNA always push WWE rejects? Cody would not be ROH champ if he didn't go through WWE.

And I have said that the top guys can make good money if they are good at hustling outside the WWE. But I bet most of them if they translate what they do outside the WWE to the WWE they can make more. I highly doubt AJ Styles would of made 2.4 Million last year working NJPW/TNA/ROH etc... Sure he could of made a Million and been very happy.

Anyways I think the debate went off track. My only point is that you can't make the upper limit of WWE money outside WWE. No one outside WWE is touching Cena's 8 Million a year. I doubt anyone is touching Romans 3.3 Million. Most won't achieve that in the wrestling business but if you want that shot you have to go to the WWE. I am sure the bucks are happy making 600K rather than working at Walmart or wherever making 50k a year. But if HHH said you will make 3 million a year in WWE that probably sounds very interesting to them.

And how have those ex-WWE guys done in TNA? Sandow really did them wonders... And using TNA as an example is a terrible idea. They were constantly lambasted for using ex-WWE guys.

Cody is a champion because he is a star. Sandow isn't a champion because he isn't a star. Being a star isn't connected to being in WWE, it's far more common for someone to be a star having never been part of WWE.




Yes the upper tier of WWE pay isn't possible anywhere else, but that's not what we're talking about. It's idiotic to think about it as it's not a goal you can work toward.


What you need to understand is that in WWE there is no career progression path to work up. You don't join as a bottom tier guy and show your skill and get promoted a number of times and end up at the top. There is nothing at all you can do as a wrestler to move your self up the card into those super star spots with the seven figure guarantee.

Being talented doesn't get you opportunities. The fact that Jordan was chosen over Gable because the office like him should tell you everything but you seem gloss over it. It's the entire point I'm making. Being picked by Vince is the only factor that matters in a WWE career.

Vince picks Cass, Corbin, Reigns, Strowman, Jinder. He doesn't pick Zayn, Dorada, Itami, Gable. Hard work doesn't help.


Yes being talented does mean you'll stick around, and you will probably have a decent career. You'll made good money too. But you'll never make that top money without the WWE picking you for a big push, and Vince's whims are the single factor in all of it.

But you're not making more than being outside WWE. You're working a hell of a lot more with very little freedom, and it really isn't the best working environment.


So at that point, what did you gain? You take a big pay cut for for an 1-5+ year stay in NXT (Vince's whims for call ups too), then worker harder for more or less the same pay as before when you make the main roster.

 

[Natey]

Just not a main event talent. HE was in the PC for like 10 years he is lucky he made the WWE.

Not everyone is going to become a ME in the WWE but for every Dillinger there is an AJ styles or Kevin Owens or Seth Rollins.

Its not the early 90's anymore where Vince is obsesses with roided up talentless schlubs (except for Jinder LOL). Its the indy era in WWE.

Are you calling Dillinger talentless??? What the....

 

[GKJ]

NXT, Wednesday August 23, from Barclays Center in Brooklyn, New York. Taped prior to NXT Takeover: Brooklyn III

As is common now on the post-Takeover taping, we get a lot of backstage stuff. Johnny Gargano is disappointed, but still believes in himself and knows all of us do, too. Aleister Black completely blew off a bunch of geeks with mics. Asuka did a really strange bit with the "international press." Bobby Roode was understandably really pissed off and wouldn't talk, especially after Roderick Strong awkwardly blew him a kiss. Later, "earlier today" "after" his debut on Smackdown, he said that he has unfinished business in NXT, so expect him to still get matches with Strong and McIntyre. Nothing from Ember Moon, Itami, Galloway, or the ROH guys. We're promised some follow-up on McIntyre and Adam Cole's debut next week.

No Way Jose comes out for a match, gets a conga line going as he did last year, and then Lars Sullivan comes out and eviscerates him.

Peyton Royce vs. Sarah Logan - a standard match where both girls looked pretty good. Peyton was accompanied by Billie Kay, but I don't believe she got involved at all. Peyton Royce wins clean with the fisherman's suplex. I was pretty surprised watching it live, I figured Sarah Logan would be put over prior to the tournament, while the Iconic Duo now seem to be running in circles.

Fresh out of whatever hole these guys have been kept under, Tyler Bate and Trent Seven vs. Wolfgang and Pete Dunne. Wolfgang tells Pete Dunne he wants a title shot if they win, in what was a rather wooden promo before the match. But they do, Tyler Bate hits the Tyler Driver 97 on Pete Dunne, but he had made a blind tag to Wolfy who hits the high-angle senton for the pin on Bate. So, I guess Wolfy is getting a title shot before Bate gets his, unless they already did it and it wasn't on TV. Dunne was one of the most over guys on the show.

 

[Kimi]

Hey, the UK guys have been doing far more stuff than the NXT guys, and you don't complain about all them!

 

[GKJ]

That's the first time any of them have been heard from since Chicago.

 

[Kimi]

Yeah, only if you decide to ignore everything they've done in the mean time. Just 'cos you don't see it on NXT doesn't mean it hasn't happened.

 

[scrubadam]

Are you calling Dillinger talentless??? What the....

Tye is pretty good no doubt and he should be positioned better in the WWE. But don't forget how long of a road he had to travel to get where he is now. He was released and went back to the PC and was there for a very long time with failed gimmick after failed gimmick.

I think if Tye keeps at it he will eventually move himself up the card.

Main point is that being talented in the ring is an important part of being in the WWE and moving to the top of the card. Vince will have his hard ons every now and then but in the end you need to put on a good main event, and you generally need to be a good talent to do that.

 

[Kimi]

But you don't need two talented wrestler to have a good match. The entire history of the business has shown this, it's why the concept of a 'jobber to the stars' exists.

All you need is someone that will make the chosen star have a good match. If you've got a few Zayns or Styles on your roster, you can easily make someone look a hell of a lot better than they actually are.

 

[SeidoN]

Dunne is over af lol

 

[GKJ]

Yeah, only if you decide to ignore everything they've done in the mean time. Just 'cos you don't see it on NXT doesn't mean it hasn't happened.

That's the thing though, people aren't seeing that they've been doing other stuff. I know they're doing it, but Dunne and Bate had that awesome match in Chicago and you'd think you'd want that followed up on on your own air, yet they weren't seen again until now. They should make these deals with Progress and ICW to at least show clips of stuff on NXT or something.

 

[Kimi]

The problem with that is most guys are not the same alignment as their WWE roles. British Strong Style for example are a unit outside WWE, but are against each in title matches in WWE.

 

[scrubadam]

If I'm on The Bucks schedule with my creative control, control of schedule, etc., and Triple H tells me he'll pay me $3-million to work a full-time WWE schedule I'd probably still pass at that point.

$600,000 a year is a lot of money. $3-million is even more, but to be on the road 250-300 days a year isn't appealing much at all if you can make that much money working half those dates and having all the creative control and freedom you want. It's probably easier to do that travel if you don't have a family at home, but they do. It's not like they're scraping by on the indies. They're in a very good position. Now if they were making $80k on the indies and working just a bit less than the normal WWE schedule, that's a different story.

I agree with this because money isn't the motivating factor for everyone. There are lots of other things that are important to people above money. And then for others money is very important.

With the YB and my made up scenario times it by 3. HHH says here is a 3 year contract 3 mill a year, 9 Million in 3 years. Compared to 1.8 Mill they would make. Thats the difference. AJ Styles will probably make 8 or 9 Million after his 3 year contract is up with WWE. If he signed with TNA or stayed in Japan instead of coming to WWE do you think he would of set himself and his family up with 9 Million 3 years later?

You can hustle and make decent money outside WWE. Omega/YB they are doing it. But to make the most money you have to go to WWE. And thats only for the top indy guys. Most guys aren't Omega or YB and aren't making big money. I think a guy like Lio Rush isn't giving up huge sums of cash to try WWE and see if he can carve out a decent career and increase his stock where in 3 or 5 years from now if he is released he can go to the indy's and GFW and make big bucks because WWE held him down and HHH or Vince didn't like him.