Nothing but praise

Hockey Crazy

Registered User
Dec 30, 2008
2,942
2,071
Thank you for this, it had to be said. These guys know what they’re doing. They have a plan and the maturity to ride out the highs and lows and execute on that plan no matter what. Hearing people on this board complain can drive you insane and it’s nice to know that some see what’s really going on.
 

Spirit of 67

Registered User
Nov 25, 2016
7,061
4,938
Aurora, On.
Leiwicky really needs to be recognized in this thread as well. Be it the Leafs, Raps, TFC or whatever, he kicked over the first dominoes. He's really the patriarch of MLSE's on ice/field/court success.
 
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ShaneFalco

Registered User
Jul 15, 2012
21,414
15,770
London, On
All I'll say is that it's great to read people who actually enjoy and treasure what we've got here. It sometimes feels like a rarity around here, where so many seem to let their annoyance over details get in the way of what should be a great, wonderful time to be a Leafs fan.

We're used to disappointment, failure and broken dreams
 

Wafflewhipper

Registered User
Jan 18, 2014
14,114
5,694
He is smart enough to know that to be successful you need to bring in successful people. That applies to everyone that wants to do anything right under any endeavor in life.

He brough in winners who in turn attract winners. That might sound bold but it is very true.
 

CabanaBoy5

Registered User
Feb 17, 2013
3,393
3,827
Woodbridge
Maybe you should be a coach
If I was, Hyman wouldn’t be on my first line, Komarov would be on the 4th permanently, I wouldn’t put Hyman or Komarov on the power play, I’d cater my offensive strategy to the players I have, I’d have a semblance of a defensive structure, and I wouldn’t leave the penalty box empty so my team has to play 7 minutes short handed as we had to last year against Columbus. I think I’ll just continue to enlighten people like you who think Babcock is elite, but thanks for the suggestion anyways.
 

Eb

Registered User
Feb 27, 2011
7,806
610
Toronto
I remember a lot of people outside opposing fans always used to crap on the Shanahan signing, which was really unfair to the guy.

One thing that made me really like Shanahan was when the NHL had that debacle with all the emails getting released and you got to see some people's nasty side(Bob McKenzie, Colin Campbell) Shanahan was always professional in his emails and didn't come off looking like a jackass in any of them.
What was this? I don't recall?
 

Nithoniniel

Registered User
Sep 7, 2012
20,913
16,749
Skövde, Sweden
If I was, Hyman wouldn’t be on my first line, Komarov would be on the 4th permanently, I wouldn’t put Hyman or Komarov on the power play, I’d cater my offensive strategy to the players I have, I’d have a semblance of a defensive structure, and I wouldn’t leave the penalty box empty so my team has to play 7 minutes short handed as we had to last year against Columbus. I think I’ll just continue to enlighten people like you who think Babcock is elite, but thanks for the suggestion anyways.
Can you detail how you'd build our offensive strategy different from now? What would your defensive structure be like? I'd be very interested to hear that, since you think you have better solutions.
 

CabanaBoy5

Registered User
Feb 17, 2013
3,393
3,827
Woodbridge
Can you detail how you'd build our offensive strategy different from now? What would your defensive structure be like? I'd be very interested to hear that, since you think you have better solutions.
The dump and chase that was implemented earlier in the season didn’t work. He tried it because he felt that with players like Martin Komarov, Brown, and Hyman, it would work. But it’s your stars that you should gear your attack around. Nylander, Marner, Matthews, Kadri prefer to hold onto the puck and maintain possession, make plays on the rush, etc. To Babcocks credit he moved away from the dump and chase and the team played much better as a result. I reiterate, he’s a good coach, not a great one. His focus and reliance on grinders at the expense of skill is his fault. There’s a place for one dimensional grinders on all teams, but not receiving major minutes at the expense of our stars and not on the first line. Defensively, something has been amiss for a few years. How can we continually get outshot and opposition shots always in the 30s without something needed to be changed. Babcock should thank his lucky stars Lou got him Andersen, or we’d have been stuck with Bernier or Reimer. Then we’d see our coach’s ability to be elite.
 
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The Man with a Plan

Registered User
Dec 19, 2008
3,338
1,912
Victoria BC
Can you detail how you'd build our offensive strategy different from now? What would your defensive structure be like? I'd be very interested to hear that, since you think you have better solutions.

Indeed. It is laughable how many posters here think they know it all and most importantly know more then one of the best coaches in the game who has won on EVERY level he has coached at. I guess that some people truly are just arrogant enough to believe it is easy to win a World Championship, Olympic gold and the Cup. Let alone win them all...

He MUST know better then Babs...
 
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Stephen

Moderator
Feb 28, 2002
78,408
52,591
I always disliked the instant gratification that GM's like Cliff Fletcher operated on. Year after you'd see teams like Detroit and Colorado grow and grow and the Leafs would slowly decline, trying to trade out of their issues only to sink deeper into them. During the Quinn years it never felt like we had enough reinforcements, too many holes at every position to really compete with New Jersey.

Always looked to guys like Sam Pollock, Lou Lamoriello, Jimmy Devellano or tank rebuilds like Quebec/Colorado, Pittsburgh and wondered why we couldn't do the same.

And now we are!
 

CabanaBoy5

Registered User
Feb 17, 2013
3,393
3,827
Woodbridge
Indeed. It is laughable how many posters here think they know it all and most importantly know more then one of the best coaches in the game who has won on EVERY level he has coached at. I guess that some people truly are just arrogant enough to believe it is easy to win a World Championship, Olympic gold and the Cup. Let alone win them all...

He MUST know better then Babs...
It’s people like you that are laughable who think that a coach is beyond reproach. The best coaches in the world in any sport (Babcocks not one of them) are sometimes questioned. Great coaches have been fired. Winning with great players doesn’t make you elite. The only arrogance I see is from Babcock who thinks his crap doesn’t stink.
 

Joey Hoser

Registered User
Jan 8, 2008
14,232
4,143
Guelph
I wouldn’t put Hyman or Komarov on the power play,

Hyman doesn't play on the powerplay.

and I wouldn’t leave the penalty box empty so my team has to play 7 minutes short handed as we had to last year against Columbus.

If your argument has to contain something that simply isn't true, and you also have to appeal to a one-off blunder that will obviously never happen again, then you should probably re-evaluate your position.
 

Nithoniniel

Registered User
Sep 7, 2012
20,913
16,749
Skövde, Sweden
The dump and chase that was implemented earlier in the season didn’t work. He tried it because he felt that with players like Martin Komarov, Brown, and Hyman, it would work. But it’s your stars that you should gear your attack around. Nylander, Marner, Matthews, Kadri prefer to hold onto the puck and maintain possession, make plays on the rush, etc. To Babcocks credit he moved away from the dump and chase and the team played much better as a result. I reiterate, he’s a good coach, not a great one. His focus and reliance on grinders at the expense of skill is his fault. There’s a place for one dimensional grinders on all teams, but not receiving major minutes at the expense of our stars and not on the first line. Defensively, something has been amiss for a few years. How can we continually get outshot and opposition shots always in the 30s without something needed to be changed. Babcock should thank his lucky stars Lou got him Andersen, or we’d have been stuck with Bernier or Reimer. Then we’d see our coach’s ability to be elite.
So I guess this means that you can't explain what kind of systems you would run, you just know that they would definitely be better than those of one of the most highly acclaimed professionals in the world?

Perhaps you should start with being able to formulate your own alternative before you proclaim it better.
 
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BoredBrandonPridham

Registered User
Aug 9, 2011
7,573
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The dump and chase that was implemented earlier in the season didn’t work. He tried it because he felt that with players like Martin Komarov, Brown, and Hyman, it would work. But it’s your stars that you should gear your attack around. Nylander, Marner, Matthews, Kadri prefer to hold onto the puck and maintain possession, make plays on the rush, etc. To Babcocks credit he moved away from the dump and chase and the team played much better as a result. I reiterate, he’s a good coach, not a great one. His focus and reliance on grinders at the expense of skill is his fault. There’s a place for one dimensional grinders on all teams, but not receiving major minutes at the expense of our stars and not on the first line. Defensively, something has been amiss for a few years. How can we continually get outshot and opposition shots always in the 30s without something needed to be changed. Babcock should thank his lucky stars Lou got him Andersen, or we’d have been stuck with Bernier or Reimer. Then we’d see our coach’s ability to be elite.

Interesting that Babcock would be getting faulted with not playing stars enough, when playing stars into the ground is exactly what he was known to do before he joined the Leafs and they revamped their entire sports science department. They now have a much stronger say in player rest and managing their minutes -- so you can "fault" Shanahan for understanding that the team needs to prepare for an 82 game season plus playoffs.
 

White Shadow

Registered User
Jan 7, 2016
2,477
598
The dump and chase that was implemented earlier in the season didn’t work. He tried it because he felt that with players like Martin Komarov, Brown, and Hyman, it would work. But it’s your stars that you should gear your attack around. Nylander, Marner, Matthews, Kadri prefer to hold onto the puck and maintain possession, make plays on the rush, etc. To Babcocks credit he moved away from the dump and chase and the team played much better as a result. I reiterate, he’s a good coach, not a great one. His focus and reliance on grinders at the expense of skill is his fault. There’s a place for one dimensional grinders on all teams, but not receiving major minutes at the expense of our stars and not on the first line. Defensively, something has been amiss for a few years. How can we continually get outshot and opposition shots always in the 30s without something needed to be changed. Babcock should thank his lucky stars Lou got him Andersen, or we’d have been stuck with Bernier or Reimer. Then we’d see our coach’s ability to be elite.

If you've been watching you would have noticed we have had not one but two different structure changes this year. We started the year playing balls out offensively and trading chances. This resulted in a lot of goals, both for and against. That was fun, but not very effective.
To fix this, Babcock instituted the dump and chase in early November. We needed to rehearse a playoff structure that would limit the number of odd man chances against us and it worked.
In January, with the arrival of Kapanen and Dermott we switched again towards a speed game. Dermott has allowed us to carry the puck more out of our zone. We haven't played dump and chase for 2 months.

I'd like to hear your thoughts on how you would change our defensive structure. Do you want us to collapse more, cover the points more, trap more, left wing lock, third man high, cut off the top? What system do you think would best suit our team?
 

therealkoho

Him/Leaf/fan
Jul 10, 2009
17,033
8,218
the Prior
Let me make it clearer for you since you obviously have drunk the Babcock kool-aid. Babcock is a good coach whose stubbornness and poor choices keep him from being an elite coach. Hyman should not be attached to our superstars hip because he offers very little to that line, and in fact, gets in the way. Babcock loves his grinders and gudpros. Komarov playing anywhere but the 4th line for over half the season was lunacy, a fact he acknowledged when he put him on the 4th line and suddenly Kadri and Marner became productive. Young players being held accountable when they make errors but not the veterans, ie Kadri, Bozak, Marleau etc. Our defensive system, the choice to play dump and chase with a roster not suited, shall I go on? Let’s be serious, it has been Andersen’s stellar play that has made Babcock look elite. You mention Quenneville as the only coach worthy of comparison? What about Gallant, Sullivan, Cooper, Hitchcock? All on par with Babcock who has had the luxury of elite players on any team he’s been a part of. When we had avg players a few years ago, much like Vegas’ this year, he finished 30th. Clearer now?
i did read this, i do get where you're coming from

couple of things

The Leafs currently sit at 42-22-7, yep thats right 42-22-7 there has never been a Leafs team that has been better at 71 games, not Imlachs teams, not Hap Days teams and not even Quinns teams. This is no accident and the Leafs didn't just fumble their way to this record. They have the #5 PP in the NHL, and the #9PK in the league as of this writing, again that is no accident. This team has a singular objective and play within a system that gives them real identity, again no accident.

The guy that's leading the way for all that is Mike Babcock and and he should get credit where it's due. I guarantee that if you're name isn't Toe Blake, Scotty Bowman, Anatoli Tarasov or Al Arbour, you do not know better then Babcock.

paragraphs are your friend:thumbu:
 

CabanaBoy5

Registered User
Feb 17, 2013
3,393
3,827
Woodbridge
Hyman doesn't play on the powerplay.



If your argument has to contain something that simply isn't true, and you also have to appeal to a one-off blunder that will obviously never happen again, then you should probably re-evaluate your position.
Hyman has played on the pp temporarily in the past and recently was on the ice on the 6 on 5 so tell me again why I have to reevaluate my position because something wasn’t true? And to the rest of you asking me what I’d do, I’m not paid millions to figure out how we can limit shots on goal. I’m a volleyball coach who can tell you how to defend a multiple offence coming from the opposite side of the net. But as a hockey fan, I can tell when a coach makes baffling and frustrating decisions. Like I said, he’s a good coach, not elite IMO
 

White Shadow

Registered User
Jan 7, 2016
2,477
598
Hyman has played on the pp temporarily in the past and recently was on the ice on the 6 on 5 so tell me again why I have to reevaluate my position because something wasn’t true? And to the rest of you asking me what I’d do, I’m not paid millions to figure out how we can limit shots on goal. I’m a volleyball coach who can tell you how to defend a multiple offence coming from the opposite side of the net. But as a hockey fan, I can tell when a coach makes baffling and frustrating decisions. Like I said, he’s a good coach, not elite IMO
Just because you are baffled doesn't mean the rest of us are...or that it's wrong.
 
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Hockey Crazy

Registered User
Dec 30, 2008
2,942
2,071
If I was, Hyman wouldn’t be on my first line, Komarov would be on the 4th permanently, I wouldn’t put Hyman or Komarov on the power play, I’d cater my offensive strategy to the players I have, I’d have a semblance of a defensive structure, and I wouldn’t leave the penalty box empty so my team has to play 7 minutes short handed as we had to last year against Columbus. I think I’ll just continue to enlighten people like you who think Babcock is elite, but thanks for the suggestion anyways.
Wow I was blind but now I see. Thanks for the enlightenment....
 

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