North Bay Battalion 2018 Offseason Thread

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belair

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There's talk about Butler (from untrusted sources) likely having a difficult time getting the top talent from this draft to report. Seeing the return Ryan McLeod got for Flint, I have to ask why you'd settle for a lesser talent and let the top talent fall to stronger teams. Take the picks, take the compensation and improve your team through trade.

Flint swapped McLeod for six picks – three second-rounders and three third-rounders from Mississauga – and will also receive two compensatory picks in the 2016 OHL draft because McLeod was a "defected" top-five selection. One pick will be fifth overall and the other will be tacked on to the end of the second round.

If Rolf Nilsson hadn't been a complete tool last year the Firebirds would've had two top five picks in the 2016 draft. Returns like that can turn your team around in an instant.

As long as you're certain your guy isn't committed to a US college, you take the BPA.
 

StraightShooter

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Mar 27, 2017
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Stans reputation has all but crippled his ability to bring in top end players. There's a reason why the 3rd overall pick won't be an impact player that he should be. It's the same reason why 27's numbers weren't where they should be. His defensive strategy doesn't help these skilled players. They should still
Pick the best available and even if he doesn't report, trade the pick for a bunch of picks in return and you get your compensatory pick plus a large number of seconds and thirds that you can trade for a
Player.
 

View from section 9

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Apr 13, 2016
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Stans reputation has all but crippled his ability to bring in top end players. There's a reason why the 3rd overall pick won't be an impact player that he should be. It's the same reason why 27's numbers weren't where they should be. His defensive strategy doesn't help these skilled players. They should still
Pick the best available and even if he doesn't report, trade the pick for a bunch of picks in return and you get your compensatory pick plus a large number of seconds and thirds that you can trade for a
Player.
I honestly hope this isn't the case but if it is then I agree with you and pick the BPA and pull a heist like Missy paid for R McLeod or they got for Nizhnikov
 

OHLFan90

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I honestly hope this isn't the case but if it is then I agree with you and pick the BPA and pull a heist like Missy paid for R McLeod or they got for Nizhnikov





Those deals only work if the other team knows that the player is going to show up.

Case in point Jacob Tortora.

Barrie Colts Declared him defective and are only guaranteed a 15th round pick in the trade.

Now that can change if Tortora ever plays in Kitchener. If he plays there next season, Barrie gets 3 2nd. If he plays there the season after, Barrie gets 2 2nds.

If he never plays a game in the OHL, Barrie only gets the 15th round pick so be careful what you wish for.
 

belair

Jay Woodcroft Unemployment Stance
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Those deals only work if the other team knows that the player is going to show up.

Case in point Jacob Tortora.

Barrie Colts Declared him defective and are only guaranteed a 15th round pick in the trade.

Now that can change if Tortora ever plays in Kitchener. If he plays there next season, Barrie gets 3 2nd. If he plays there the season after, Barrie gets 2 2nds.

If he never plays a game in the OHL, Barrie only gets the 15th round pick so be careful what you wish for.

Tortora wasn't a top five pick though. Compensation is considerably better when the player does not report.
 

OHLFan90

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Tortora wasn't a top five pick though. Compensation is considerably better when the player does not report.

No, I think he would have been had he not be open about his commitment to the USNTDP.

It's besides the point though. Lets say for instance Stan chose John Beecher ( Think thats his name) At 5th overall. Lets say he's the BPA. Teams might not pay as much for him as people think.

People keep referencing the Nishnikov/R.McLeod trades. Id say both but one of those teams knew for sure he wanted to play there and the Other team capitalized on the assets.

I'm just saying, I wouldn't get my hopes up on a deal like that. Just my opinion though.

Id hope that whoever NB takes, the player reports. Would like to see that team repeat the magic they had a few years back.
 

The Prophet

Registered User
Apr 6, 2016
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Stans reputation has all but crippled his ability to bring in top end players. There's a reason why the 3rd overall pick won't be an impact player that he should be. It's the same reason why 27's numbers weren't where they should be. His defensive strategy doesn't help these skilled players. They should still
Pick the best available and even if he doesn't report, trade the pick for a bunch of picks in return and you get your compensatory pick plus a large number of seconds and thirds that you can trade for a
Player.

Make no mistake the top end players families and agents are saying no to North Bay. The reasons are not just the " Defensive strategy" of Mr. Butler, things like distance from the GT, school options , the hockey culture of other teams, development of the past players in NB, and when families are sending their 16 year old away from home for the first time its critical how the coach/GM treats his players.
Mr. Butlers rants about his players in the media doesn't help his pitch to the top prospects on reporting.
 

too_long

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Oct 24, 2006
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Make no mistake the top end players families and agents are saying no to North Bay. The reasons are not just the " Defensive strategy" of Mr. Butler, things like distance from the GT, school options , the hockey culture of other teams, development of the past players in NB, and when families are sending their 16 year old away from home for the first time its critical how the coach/GM treats his players.
Mr. Butlers rants about his players in the media doesn't help his pitch to the top prospects on reporting.

utter drivel... If I was a prospect, I may worry more about the so called fans of this
club. :help:
 

belair

Jay Woodcroft Unemployment Stance
Apr 9, 2010
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Stans reputation has all but crippled his ability to bring in top end players. There's a reason why the 3rd overall pick won't be an impact player that he should be. It's the same reason why 27's numbers weren't where they should be. His defensive strategy doesn't help these skilled players. They should still
Pick the best available and even if he doesn't report, trade the pick for a bunch of picks in return and you get your compensatory pick plus a large number of seconds and thirds that you can trade for a
Player.

Why didn't it effect Amadio's numbers or development?

27's numbers were average for a 16 year old. Look at Amadio's numbers as an example.

His system is so overstated.
 

Gr8northscout

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Aug 29, 2012
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Butler coaches this way to give his team the best chance possible of winning.
Yes the opinions of the fans on this site are to be taken with a grain of salt.
If Butler was coaching Kitchener or London, do you think he'd go with a defense first system? He'd have 4 deep lines and better 5-6 D pairings.
 

StraightShooter

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Mar 27, 2017
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Why didn't it effect Amadio's numbers or development?

27's numbers were average for a 16 year old. Look at Amadio's numbers as an example.

His system is so overstated.

He wasn't in the same position as Amadio. I believe Amadio was given a set role the whole season. McMaster was up and down constantly on different lines making it hard for him to find some chemistry with his line mates. A player of his skill and the overall talent of the team he should have slotted in the top 6 the whole season.
 

hardclimate

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Jan 7, 2015
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baytoday.ca has an interesting link to Mr. Abbot's affidavit regarding the possible CHL class action suit.
 

The Prophet

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Apr 6, 2016
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Butler coaches this way to give his team the best chance possible of winning.
Yes the opinions of the fans on this site are to be taken with a grain of salt.
If Butler was coaching Kitchener or London, do you think he'd go with a defense first system? He'd have 4 deep lines and better 5-6 D pairings.

The first year in N Bay they went to the league finals with a great players and a even greater goalie, he coached the very same way then as today, Defense first, so yes " if " he coached Kitchener or London he would coach the very same way.......that's all he knows.
 

stickhandle

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Its sort of comical that somebody on a anonomous site like this can state that a coach that has been in the league for over 20 years and been involved with several national teams doesnt know how to coach, just sayin.
If you dont have the horses it doesnt matter what style you preach.
 
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belair

Jay Woodcroft Unemployment Stance
Apr 9, 2010
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He wasn't in the same position as Amadio. I believe Amadio was given a set role the whole season. McMaster was up and down constantly on different lines making it hard for him to find some chemistry with his line mates. A player of his skill and the overall talent of the team he should have slotted in the top 6 the whole season.

McMaster's linemates were fairly consistent all year. He was tied to Brazeau and Potts exclusively pretty much all season at evens. His usage varied depending on the injuries, but McMaster wasn't buried nor was he overworked as a 16 year old. The idea of Butler's 'system' holding him back is just asinine.

Once again, I think his 'system' is overblown. Honestly from the games I saw it's hard to imagine there was any modicum of structure at certain points of the season. Injuries, suspensions and a general lack of talent prevented this team from gaining any traction this year.
 

The Prophet

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Apr 6, 2016
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Its sort of comical that somebody on a anonomous site like this can state that a coach that has been in the league for over 20 years and been involved with several national teams doesnt know how to coach, just sayin.
If you dont have the horses it doesnt matter what style you preach.

What is comical is your inability to comprehend what posters post.
Nobody has said he cant coach, but rather his coaching style doesn't fit todays game of speed and skill. example: go watch London or the Soo play N Bay .....now that is comical, the only time the Battalion touch the puck is warm up.
Another way to put it, if Fred Shero came back from the dead, would his style fit todays NHL ?
Mr. Butlers style worked 20, 15, 10 or even 5 years ago, and his National team coaching started back in 1999/2002 and he had success, but that's along time ago.
Agreed that you need the horses, but the horses are drafted, traded for, signed by the GM, so the GM's style also is a little dated.
 

MartyHuggins

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Mar 17, 2015
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What is comical is your inability to comprehend what posters post.
Nobody has said he cant coach, but rather his coaching style doesn't fit todays game of speed and skill. example: go watch London or the Soo play N Bay .....now that is comical, the only time the Battalion touch the puck is warm up.
Another way to put it, if Fred Shero came back from the dead, would his style fit todays NHL ?
Mr. Butlers style worked 20, 15, 10 or even 5 years ago, and his National team coaching started back in 1999/2002 and he had success, but that's along time ago.
Agreed that you need the horses, but the horses are drafted, traded for, signed by the GM, so the GM's style also is a little dated.

Butler coached the U18 National team to a Gold medal 2 years ago!!!
 

may know

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Butler coached the U18 National team to a Gold medal 2 years ago!!!

The Hlinka tournament isn't a true test as Canada typically sends the best team by far. Other countries don't send their best teams to that tournament. It usually an automatic win by Canada.

But from that Butler coached team who was the one player, outside of Nolan Patrick who wasn't eligible last year, that wasn't drafted by NHL team?
 

MartyHuggins

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Mar 17, 2015
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YES, if you read it very slow, you will see that It clearly states "started in 1999" and "had success"



I don't have to read slow, I just present facts. I agree, London had NBAYS number this year, and other than one game, they played the Soo pretty well, beating them on the road, and leading in the 3rd period at home, until a couple of bad goals did them in!!!
 

The Prophet

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Apr 6, 2016
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The Hlinka tournament isn't a true test as Canada typically sends the best team by far. Other countries don't send their best teams to that tournament. It usually an automatic win by Canada.

But from that Butler coached team who was the one player, outside of Nolan Patrick who wasn't eligible last year, that wasn't drafted by NHL team?

I will take a stab at it .......Zach Poirier ?

Further, Mr. Butler cut Cam Morrison ( 2nd round to Colorado ) for Poirier.

That really helped getting Morrison to report to North Bay !!
 

OMG67

Registered User
Sep 1, 2013
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What is comical is your inability to comprehend what posters post.
Nobody has said he cant coach, but rather his coaching style doesn't fit todays game of speed and skill. example: go watch London or the Soo play N Bay .....now that is comical, the only time the Battalion touch the puck is warm up.
Another way to put it, if Fred Shero came back from the dead, would his style fit todays NHL ?
Mr. Butlers style worked 20, 15, 10 or even 5 years ago, and his National team coaching started back in 1999/2002 and he had success, but that's along time ago.
Agreed that you need the horses, but the horses are drafted, traded for, signed by the GM, so the GM's style also is a little dated.

Come back in five years and we will see if you have the same opinion you do now.
 
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