Prospect Info: Noah Juulsen Part II

[WeThreeKings]

Still could use offensive seasoning in the AHL. Think it would be a mistake to keep him up out of training camp next year. Let him take what he's learned from this audition to the AHL and better himself.

 

[lamp9post]

Some players, all it takes is to be surrounded by NHL players, world of difference than the CHL (obviously lol) and the skill/talent sometimes just clicks better at the pro level

we'll take it, if he becomes a 30+ point dman with size and decent wheels we're laughing

That might be a bit too much to ask for from Juulsen. He's smart and good positionally, but not the fastest skater and not the best acceleration either. If he gets caught flat-footed or is a step behind the play, there isn't much he can do to recover. That said, I think his skating will improve with a couple more years of training under his belt.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

His skating is more than fine, he's a good skater. I think the main thing is he needs to continue to do is bulk up and get stronger so he can play his physical game. Was nice to see him crunching guys the last couple of games as opposed to flying off of them.

 

[Tyson]

Rock and a hard place- probably can use more AHL seasoning but Laval ain’t the place for it as long as the 3 idiots are still there.

He needs to get stronger.

He has NHL top 4 written all over him. Big fan

 

[Laurentide]

Juulsen is ready for prime time next season (ready enough that he should be kept far away from the coaching staff in Laval at least)

 

[Deebs]

He should be NHL regular next year without question. Weber, Petry and Juulsen on the right side is a nice to start to rebuilding the D corps.

 

[Captain Mountain]

He should be NHL regular next year without question. Weber, Petry and Juulsen on the right side is a nice to start to rebuilding the D corps.

Starting to rebuild a D-corps next year with a 33 year old and a 30/31 year old isn't exactly "nice".

 

[MaxDummy]

Starting to rebuild a D-corps next year with a 33 year old and a 30/31 year old isn't exactly "nice".

Juulsen will learn everything from Weber! Or so I heard.

 

[Sorinth]

The way Juulsen is being talked about/hyped is very similar to how Tinordi at the end of the 2012-2013 season. Tinordi came in late played a dozen games (Including playoffs) looked very good and everybody had him penciled in as a top-4 going into the next season.

We have to be careful that we don't shatter Juulsen's confidence like we did with Tinordi or yo-yo him between the AHL/NHL like we did with Beaulieu. We have to ensure we put him in a situation where he can succeed, which means a somewhat sheltered role and not cutting his ice-time whenever he makes mistakes. I have more confidence in Julien doing this then I had with Therrien but if Bergevin is on the hot seat he'll put Julien on the hot seat and that could create issues since what's best long term doesn't always matchup with winning right now.

 

[habsterr]

Juulsen should start in the AHL next season, let him develop with no pressure and lots of ice time.

 

[sheed36]

Rock and a hard place- probably can use more AHL seasoning but Laval ain’t the place for it as long as the 3 idiots are still there.

He needs to get stronger.

He has NHL top 4 written all over him. Big fan

I'd like to say there's no way the coaching staff will be back with Laval next season but as long as Marc Bergevin is still around who the hell knows.

 

[Adam Michaels]

 

[Habs100]

The way Juulsen is being talked about/hyped is very similar to how Tinordi at the end of the 2012-2013 season. Tinordi came in late played a dozen games (Including playoffs) looked very good and everybody had him penciled in as a top-4 going into the next season.

We have to be careful that we don't shatter Juulsen's confidence like we did with Tinordi or yo-yo him between the AHL/NHL like we did with Beaulieu. We have to ensure we put him in a situation where he can succeed, which means a somewhat sheltered role and not cutting his ice-time whenever he makes mistakes. I have more confidence in Julien doing this then I had with Therrien but if Bergevin is on the hot seat he'll put Julien on the hot seat and that could create issues since what's best long term doesn't always matchup with winning right now.

One difference is Tinordi looked good because the way the game was played when he was first breaking in. The NHL became more about speed and skill, and he couldn't keep up.

Juulsen looks built for this league and wise beyond his years with and without the puck. I agree about not yo-yo-ing him. But if he's not behind the play or forcing the play, he may benefit from learning the NHL game at the NHL level.

So far, he seems more comfortable with the puck than Reilly and Lernout, who are both much older and have to pass through waivers.

If he could play the left side, I'd play him with Weber:

Juulsen Weber
Mete Petry
Reilly/Benn/Alzner Lernout

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

He's going to come in next year and compete for that 3rd RHD spot. If he wins it, great. If he doesn't, let him continue to develop in the minors...

 

[Sorinth]

One difference is Tinordi looked good because the way the game was played when he was first breaking in. The NHL became more about speed and skill, and he couldn't keep up.

The league was already fully into being about speed/skill, that transition had started after the 04 lockout, and it didn't take 9 years to change. Not too mention Tinordi actually had good speed, his problem was more about how quickly he could think the game. And that is 100% about confidence. He was thinking the game at a fine speed that first year and then regressed due to his treatment at both the AHL and NHL levels. When you are benched after every mistake it makes you think twice every time you have the puck, and that extra half second he started to take would cost him.

If we start benching Juulsen whenever he makes a mistake with the puck, the same thing will happen to him. He'll start second guessing himself which will make his skill level look much worse then it really is. That's why it's important that the coach keeps playing him even if he makes mistakes and costs us games. He'll have things he needs to learn, and you don't learn much when you play scared of being benched.

Juulsen looks built for this league and wise beyond his years with and without the puck. I agree about not yo-yo-ing him. But if he's not behind the play or forcing the play, he may benefit from learning the NHL game at the NHL level.

So far, he seems more comfortable with the puck than Reilly and Lernout, who are both much older and have to pass through waivers.

If he could play the left side, I'd play him with Weber:

Juulsen Weber
Mete Petry
Reilly/Benn/Alzner Lernout

Most players look good when they first get called up, Hossa, D'Agostini, Andrighetto, De La Rose, Beaulieu, etc... By getting called up they get a lot of adrenaline, confidence and play some of their best hockey. But after a while it fades and the player will have to deal with slumps. The key for young players is not sending them into a death spiral, when they struggle if you cut their ice-time they lose confidence and play worse, so you cut more of their ice time and so on until they are a shell of their former self and get sent back to the AHL. We saw this all the time with De La Rose for example.

If we play Juulsen on the top line with Weber we are setting him up to fail. He'll end up going against guys he can't handle like Crosby, Kucherov, etc... and getting burnt over and over again will hurt his confidence and be bad for his development. It would be much better to play him on the third pairing where we can control the matchups and not put him out against the players in the world. That way he can win his matchups, become more confident and we can slowly give him more responsibilities.

 

[Habs100]

The league was already fully into being about speed/skill, that transition had started after the 04 lockout, and it didn't take 9 years to change. Not too mention Tinordi actually had good speed, his problem was more about how quickly he could think the game. And that is 100% about confidence. He was thinking the game at a fine speed that first year and then regressed due to his treatment at both the AHL and NHL levels. When you are benched after every mistake it makes you think twice every time you have the puck, and that extra half second he started to take would cost him.

If we start benching Juulsen whenever he makes a mistake with the puck, the same thing will happen to him. He'll start second guessing himself which will make his skill level look much worse then it really is. That's why it's important that the coach keeps playing him even if he makes mistakes and costs us games. He'll have things he needs to learn, and you don't learn much when you play scared of being benched.



Most players look good when they first get called up, Hossa, D'Agostini, Andrighetto, De La Rose, Beaulieu, etc... By getting called up they get a lot of adrenaline, confidence and play some of their best hockey. But after a while it fades and the player will have to deal with slumps. The key for young players is not sending them into a death spiral, when they struggle if you cut their ice-time they lose confidence and play worse, so you cut more of their ice time and so on until they are a shell of their former self and get sent back to the AHL. We saw this all the time with De La Rose for example.

If we play Juulsen on the top line with Weber we are setting him up to fail. He'll end up going against guys he can't handle like Crosby, Kucherov, etc... and getting burnt over and over again will hurt his confidence and be bad for his development. It would be much better to play him on the third pairing where we can control the matchups and not put him out against the players in the world. That way he can win his matchups, become more confident and we can slowly give him more responsibilities.

I never saw Tinordi the puck well and I do think his mobility with the puck, more than speed, combined with his lack of puck skills, is what kept him out of the NHL. The NHL started to change after the 04 lockout, but it has kept changing as players adapt and coaches adapt their coaching style to rule changes, and as the rules keep changing (ex: only this summer did they start calling hand checks and you saw the result last night - the penalty on Deslaurier with 3 minutes left wouldn't have been a penalty just last year).

re: Juulsen, you can never have a player play too long in the AHL. But, he looks ready to play in the NHL to me. More ready than Reilly and Lernout. He will have his ups and downs, and a coach will need to be patient with him. But he's played 20 games, going on to 21, he's not playing on adrenaline anymore.

 

[Habs100]

The league was already fully into being about speed/skill, that transition had started after the 04 lockout, and it didn't take 9 years to change. Not too mention Tinordi actually had good speed, his problem was more about how quickly he could think the game. And that is 100% about confidence. He was thinking the game at a fine speed that first year and then regressed due to his treatment at both the AHL and NHL levels. When you are benched after every mistake it makes you think twice every time you have the puck, and that extra half second he started to take would cost him.

If we start benching Juulsen whenever he makes a mistake with the puck, the same thing will happen to him. He'll start second guessing himself which will make his skill level look much worse then it really is. That's why it's important that the coach keeps playing him even if he makes mistakes and costs us games. He'll have things he needs to learn, and you don't learn much when you play scared of being benched.



Most players look good when they first get called up, Hossa, D'Agostini, Andrighetto, De La Rose, Beaulieu, etc... By getting called up they get a lot of adrenaline, confidence and play some of their best hockey. But after a while it fades and the player will have to deal with slumps. The key for young players is not sending them into a death spiral, when they struggle if you cut their ice-time they lose confidence and play worse, so you cut more of their ice time and so on until they are a shell of their former self and get sent back to the AHL. We saw this all the time with De La Rose for example.

If we play Juulsen on the top line with Weber we are setting him up to fail. He'll end up going against guys he can't handle like Crosby, Kucherov, etc... and getting burnt over and over again will hurt his confidence and be bad for his development. It would be much better to play him on the third pairing where we can control the matchups and not put him out against the players in the world. That way he can win his matchups, become more confident and we can slowly give him more responsibilities.

There are a lot of dman from his draft class that have broken in or are in the process of breaking in:

Noah Hanifin
Ivan Provorov
Zach Werenski

Brandon Carlo

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Travis Dermott

It's a young man's game.

 

[Sorinth]

I never saw Tinordi the puck well and I do think his mobility with the puck, more than speed, combined with his lack of puck skills, is what kept him out of the NHL. The NHL started to change after the 04 lockout, but it has kept changing as players adapt and coaches adapt their coaching style to rule changes, and as the rules keep changing (ex: only this summer did they start calling hand checks and you saw the result last night - the penalty on Deslaurier with 3 minutes left wouldn't have been a penalty just last year).

Yes the game is continuing to evolve, but I don't think it changed so much between 2013 and 2014 that one year he can look like a top-4 guy and the other he's not even a bottom pairing guy.

re: Juulsen, you can never have a player play too long in the AHL. But, he looks ready to play in the NHL to me. More ready than Reilly and Lernout. He will have his ups and downs, and a coach will need to be patient with him. But he's played 20 games, going on to 21, he's not playing on adrenaline anymore.

Yes it's no longer adrenaline, but there's also no pressure to win. Once points start to matter the coach will give him a shorter leash. And a shorter leash often leads to a spiral of worsening performance.

 

[Sorinth]

There are a lot of dman from his draft class that have broken in or are in the process of breaking in:

Noah Hanifin
Ivan Provorov
Zach Werenski

Brandon Carlo

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Travis Dermott

It's a young man's game.

Well the first 3 are top-10 picks where the expectation of when they are ready for the NHL is different.

I'm not against Juulsen playing this year/next year so long as we are willing to live with the mistakes. We have to be willing to commit to playing him 15+ min a game even when he struggles. I seriously doubt Bergevin is willing to do that because another poor performance and he's probably fired. So given the choice of doing what's best for Juulsen's development or winning a few extra games I don't believe he'll make the right choice.

 

[Habs100]

Yes the game is continuing to evolve, but I don't think it changed so much between 2013 and 2014 that one year he can look like a top-4 guy and the other he's not even a bottom pairing guy.



Yes it's no longer adrenaline, but there's also no pressure to win. Once points start to matter the coach will give him a shorter leash. And a shorter leash often leads to a spiral of worsening performance.

The short leash is a concern. Hopefully if the coach starts to put him on one, he goes back to the A, without yo-yo-ing back and forth. But as of now, he's better than most of our dmen. I remember when Subban was first breaking in: they couldn't keep him off the ice. They may have wanted to limit his ice time, but he was better than everyone else and they ended up wanting to use him as the game went on. I could see the same happening with Juulsen.

 

[Habs100]

Well the first 3 are top-10 picks where the expectation of when they are ready for the NHL is different.

I'm not against Juulsen playing this year/next year so long as we are willing to live with the mistakes. We have to be willing to commit to playing him 15+ min a game even when he struggles. I seriously doubt Bergevin is willing to do that because another poor performance and he's probably fired. So given the choice of doing what's best for Juulsen's development or winning a few extra games I don't believe he'll make the right choice.

Yeah, these are concerns. I especially have these concerns with Mete and Scherbak. I will be real pissed if Scherbak doesn't get good ice time and/or is in the press box often. He's ready to play with offensive players. But if you play him with Logan Shaw as his center, he's just not going to look good and a coach shouldn't shorten the leash because of how he plays with Logan Shaw as his centerman.

 

[Sorinth]

The short leash is a concern. Hopefully if the coach starts to put him on one, he goes back to the A, without yo-yo-ing back and forth. But as of now, he's better than most of our dmen. I remember when Subban was first breaking in: they couldn't keep him off the ice. They may have wanted to limit his ice time, but he was better than everyone else and they ended up wanting to use him as the game went on. I could see the same happening with Juulsen.

There's a big difference between how Subban looked vs Juulsen. Subban was dominant, Juulsen just looks like he belongs. We have to be cautious about penciling in young players even when they look like they belong. It's that kind of mistake that led many to believe Benn was a top-4 Dman and should be protected over Beaulieu/Emelin.

Better then most of our dmen isn't a high bar

If the plan next year is to tank again, then playing Juulsen in the NHL in a somewhat sheltered role is probably best for his development. But the worst thing for his development is to be 7th D in the NHL or yo-yo between the AHL/NHL.

 

[Habs100]

There's a big difference between how Subban looked vs Juulsen. Subban was dominant, Juulsen just looks like he belongs. We have to be cautious about penciling in young players even when they look like they belong. It's that kind of mistake that led many to believe Benn was a top-4 Dman and should be protected over Beaulieu/Emelin.

Better then most of our dmen isn't a high bar

If the plan next year is to tank again, then playing Juulsen in the NHL in a somewhat sheltered role is probably best for his development. But the worst thing for his development is to be 7th D in the NHL or yo-yo between the AHL/NHL.

I wasn't saying Juulsen looks like Subban. I was saying I could see Juulsen playing because they want to use him, not to play him because they want to give him the ice time for his development, but because they want him on the ice for his current play on the ice.

I totally disagree that you play Juulsen if you're tanking and otherwise he's a 7th dman.

 

[Sorinth]

I wasn't saying Juulsen looks like Subban. I was saying I could see Juulsen playing because they want to use him, not to play him because they want to give him the ice time for his development, but because they want him on the ice for his current play on the ice.

I totally disagree that you play Juulsen if you're tanking and otherwise he's a 7th dman.

Maybe I wasn't clear, if the team is trying to make the playoffs I can see them giving Juulsen the short end of the stick and playing veteran guys like Benn ahead of him. The end result is Juulsen in/out of the lineup and getting limited minutes. They would be too concerned about a mistake costing them a game to play Juulsen much. Whereas if we are tanking, losing a game(s) while he figures things out is irrelevant so they would give him more of a chance.

 

[Habs100]

Maybe I wasn't clear, if the team is trying to make the playoffs I can see them giving Juulsen the short end of the stick and playing veteran guys like Benn ahead of him. The end result is Juulsen in/out of the lineup and getting limited minutes. They would be too concerned about a mistake costing them a game to play Juulsen much. Whereas if we are tanking, losing a game(s) while he figures things out is irrelevant so they would give him more of a chance.

Yeah that's what I was saying: I see it being more of a Subban situation (where they give him the ice time) than a Tinordi/Pateryn situation (where he's yo-yo'd back and forth and in and out of the lineup). He looks ready for a regular spot to me. Tinordi and Pateryn were much shakier/slow at making decisions.