No longterm future for American teams in so-called non hockey markets! (endorsements)

[Puckhead]

Although this new CBA deal, whenever it truly becomes public information, will address the needs of many small market clubs, and put them on somewhat of an equal footing with the big spenders, it is merely a band-aid solution as far as keeping their stars go.

Case in point, Columbus with Nash. Under this new agreement, Nash will be capped at some point with how much the Blue Jackets can pay him. Therefore Nash will have to look at how much he can make in endorsement deals to supplement his income. The truth is Columbus is now and always will be a lesser light in the world of hockey, no disrespect intended, and therefore Nash will undoubtedly look at true hockey markets to showcase his talent. This will hit many franchises write between the eyes.

Florida, Anaheim, Tampa Bay, Nashville, Atlanta, Washington, etc... The long term success looks grim for these and even others in the NHL. Once the fans see that, their beloved team is nothing more than a feeder system, to the more popular teams in hockey markets, they will stop supporting them. So, as many people were hoping when this whole lockout started, (that the NHL would fold 6,8 or even 10 franchises to help the game), the way the players have had their proverbial asses handed to them in these so called negotiations, looks like the NHL may have a lot fewer teams in the not to distant future.

Click to read more...

 

[Guy Flaming]

I was under the impression that hockey was doing great in Columbus. Their attendance figures sure don't suggest a problem of any sort.

 

[Masao]

Is there really any team in the NHL that has no fan base? IMO even if a team can attract as little as 10 000 people per game with the price they're asking for tickets now, then I'd say they've got a decent fanbase.

 

[Tyler]

I love the fact that pro hockey players need to "supplement" their incomes. Poor guys.

 

[sunb]

What are you talking about?

A "fanbase" isn't a scientific constant. It has the ability to grow just as it has the ability to shrink. A team's fanbase ebbs and flows. And it is most certainly not static.

Southern California didn't have much of a fanbase a couple of years ago and now San Jose, Los Angeles and Anaheim are three established franchises.

At the same time, your definition of a fanbase may not be consistent with that of others. Some people believe Carolina doesn't have much of a fanbase but watching the 2001 finals, people saw the tremondous fanbase, albeit small, that showed up to support their team every game.

 

[rwilson99]

I was under the impression that hockey was doing great in Columbus. Their attendance figures sure don't suggest a problem of any sort.

Also, the midwest is a great spot for marketing opportunities for what is considered Middle America. Brett Farve, Ken Griffey, Lebron James, Pete Rose (pre-gambling) etc all did (or are doing) very well with endorsements while playing in that part of the country.

 

[Ogopogo*]

Although this new CBA deal, whenever it truly becomes public information, will address the needs of many small market clubs, and put them on somewhat of an equal footing with the big spenders, it is merely a band-aid solution as far as keeping their stars go.

Case in point, Columbus with Nash. Under this new agreement, Nash will be capped at some point with how much the Blue Jackets can pay him. Therefore Nash will have to look at how much he can make in endorsement deals to supplement his income. The truth is Columbus is now and always will be a lesser light in the world of hockey, no disrespect intended, and therefore Nash will undoubtedly look at true hockey markets to showcase his talent. This will hit many franchises write between the eyes.

Florida, Anaheim, Tampa Bay, Nashville, Atlanta, Washington, etc... The long term success looks grim for these and even others in the NHL. Once the fans see that, their beloved team is nothing more than a feeder system, to the more popular teams in hockey markets, they will stop supporting them. So, as many people were hoping when this whole lockout started, (that the NHL would fold 6,8 or even 10 franchises to help the game), the way the players have had their proverbial asses handed to them in these so called negotiations, looks like the NHL may have a lot fewer teams in the not to distant future.

All of those teams that you have mentioned sell a lot of tickets to their home games. In fact, Nashville and Carolina are the only sunbelt teams to average less than 15,000 per game last regular season. Columbus has marvellous attendance numbers.

There is a much bigger fan base than you give credit for. You should check the official NHL attendance numbers. It will surprise you.

The new CBA will fix the "feeder system" that Edmonton, Buffalo, Pittsburgh and many others have become.

 

[Puckhead]

I was under the impression that hockey was doing great in Columbus. Their attendance figures sure don't suggest a problem of any sort.

I am not implying that the problem is with the fan base, much as with the area and how hockey is viewed there. If you are a major sponsor and you are looking to have a top flight athelete as your spokesperson, you would be very naive to think that the area where that athelete plays does not play a significant part in the amount of sponsorship dollars. Sidney Crosby has signed with Reebok and Gatorade in the past 6 months, and now we are hearing rumours that he may end up playing in Europe for more money. Well, I am 100% certain that Gatorade and Reebok don't want that to happen, because of that fact that their exposure and best return on their investment is for him to play in the best league in the world and right here in North America.

 

[Puckhead]

Okay, what I meant to say is weaker markets, not lousy fan base. I realize that these teams can and do sell a lot of tickets. My point is that when these specific super star atheletes look at their situation and say "I am making 4 Million playing with Columbus, I could make that playing in Philly, and add loads more through endorsement deals that are not available to me in Columbus". I am not saying he can't or won't get endorsement opportunities, but they most certainly be less, when hockey is so far down the totem poll in popularity.

 

[Puckhead]

Also, the midwest is a great spot for marketing opportunities for what is considered Middle America. Brett Farve, Ken Griffey, Lebron James, Pete Rose (pre-gambling) etc all did (or are doing) very well with endorsements while playing in that part of the country.

Am I correct in saying that hockey, even before this disastrous lockout, could not even be mentioned in the same breath with those other sports to which the respective atheletes you have mentioned, managed to make very good deals thru endorsements? How can you compare Rick Nash, to Ken Griffey, Brett Favre, and LeBron James in popularity, as hockey is behind lawn bowling to the general public. Lets not forget it is that general public who these huge corporations are trying to attract with their advertising dollars.

 

[Boltsfan2029]

Okay, what I meant to say is weaker markets, not lousy fan base. I realize that these teams can and do sell a lot of tickets. My point is that when these specific super star atheletes look at their situation and say "I am making 4 Million playing with Columbus, I could make that playing in Philly, and add loads more through endorsement deals that are not available to me in Columbus".

And Philadelphia, et al., will have cap space to acquire all these other teams' players?

 

[gretzky1545]

Okay, what I meant to say is weaker markets, not lousy fan base. I realize that these teams can and do sell a lot of tickets. My point is that when these specific super star atheletes look at their situation and say "I am making 4 Million playing with Columbus, I could make that playing in Philly, and add loads more through endorsement deals that are not available to me in Columbus". I am not saying he can't or won't get endorsement opportunities, but they most certainly be less, when hockey is so far down the totem poll in popularity.

i'll agree with the fact that the endorsements will be less, but i'll disagree with the impact that will have on player movement. Each of these big market teams can't have 4 superstars and pay them all 7.4 mil or whatever the max is on contracts. I think it will have basically the same affect it has now, with few players taking sponsorship opportunities as a major decision in where to play. I don't know all the numbers of what major market teams could offer, and what level superstars you are talking about and what theyd likely make, but hopefully someone who does know the relevant numbers gets what i'm trying to say and can argue it a bit better than i have.

 

[Hasbro]

Considering endorsement money is negliable in hockey when compared to the other sports, I don't see how it will be that huge an advantage. The endorsments pretty much are confined to the local car lot so there probably won't be a huge difference by location anyway.

 

[salty justice]

Your argument is better suited for the old CBA

 

[Mat]

Florida, Anaheim, Tampa Bay, Nashville, Atlanta, Washington, etc...

Washington has been around for a long time, I don't see them just collapsing as a franchise just because they are re-building

Florida I have hope for....but Tampa seems to have some longevity to them thanks to the Cup, but I don't see them perminentaly there either

NSH, ATL, CAR will all re-locate

 

[ArtG]

You also have to look at the fact that the cap isn't constant. If the league revenues go up, so do player salaries. Besides, I'm sure poor Rick Nash will find a way to put food on the table with the salary he'll be getting as well.

 

[Hasbro]

You also have to look at the fact that the cap isn't constant. If the league revenues go up, so do player salaries. Besides, I'm sure poor Rick Nash will find a way to put food on the table with the salary he'll be getting as well.

He just can't get a dog.

 

[Puckhead]

And Philadelphia, et al., will have cap space to acquire all these other teams' players?

Good point, but these teams like Philly, Detroit, Toronto, will be able to take their pick of these elite level players, coupled with the fact that some top level talent will want to play with other great players, and could potentially take less if it means winning, not to mention, the better endorsement opportunities that would make taking less on a contract seem a lot easier to swallow.

 

[Mat]

You also have to look at the fact that the cap isn't constant. If the league revenues go up, so do player salaries. Besides, I'm sure poor Rick Nash will find a way to put food on the table with the salary he'll be getting as well.

You go where the best offer is, not by how much food you can buy with your current contract....unless he's being paid in meal tickets, which means the players really got screwed in this lockout!

 

[Mat]

Good point, but these teams like Philly, Detroit, Toronto, will be able to take their pick of these elite level players, coupled with the fact that some top level talent will want to play with other great players, and could potentially take less if it means winning, not to mention, the better endorsement opportunities that would make taking less on a contract seem a lot easier to swallow.

There is this stigma that the big-market teams like the ones you mentioned will not be able to sign players and will be maxed out on aging high-priced veterans forever. People fail to realize that these teams have prospects and farm teams too, and also draft. With buyouts and retirements, and other signings for less, I have no doubts in my mind that a team like Detroit will have enough cap space in a few years to sign a guy like Luongo (or offer him more than FLA will want to)

 

[ArtG]

You go where the best offer is, not by how much food you can buy with your current contract....unless he's being paid in meal tickets, which means the players really got screwed in this lockout!

Well with the new individual salary limit, I'm sure he will be getting the same amount from several teams -- including (probably) his own.

 

[Puckhead]

You also have to look at the fact that the cap isn't constant. If the league revenues go up, so do player salaries. Besides, I'm sure poor Rick Nash will find a way to put food on the table with the salary he'll be getting as well.

Yes, and with the cap not being constant, how do you go about giving long term deals to your elite level players? What if this year Calgary wants to sign Iginla to a 5 year deal at the max, which is 20% of total team cap space. That means they pay him $7.4 Million a year. Well how does that work when next year league wide revenues go down and due to the link to between salaries and revenues with the hard cap, they can now not afford to keep his contract? Can you only sign players to 1 year deals? I know none of us know the answers to these questions yet but it all seems very confusing.

 

[ArtG]

I wouldn't bet on league revenues dropping but if they did I'm sure the player would be paid whatever his contract originally was signed for. The only issue would be that the team might have to cut someone to fit that player under the cap.

 

[freakazoid]

Yes, and with the cap not being constant, how do you go about giving long term deals to your elite level players? What if this year Calgary wants to sign Iginla to a 5 year deal at the max, which is 20% of total team cap space. That means they pay him $7.4 Million a year. Well how does that work when next year league wide revenues go down and due to the link to between salaries and revenues with the hard cap, they can now not afford to keep his contract? Can you only sign players to 1 year deals? I know none of us know the answers to these questions yet but it all seems very confusing.

The cap in the NBA is changing from year to year, but contracts remain, so if Iggy is signed for the 20%, whatever figure he signed for he will get, no matter the cap number.

 

[rwilson99]

There is this stigma that the big-market teams like the ones you mentioned will not be able to sign players and will be maxed out on aging high-priced veterans forever. People fail to realize that these teams have prospects and farm teams too, and also draft. With buyouts and retirements, and other signings for less, I have no doubts in my mind that a team like Detroit will have enough cap space in a few years to sign a guy like Luongo (or offer him more than FLA will want to)

The only problem with Detroit is that people continue to move away from the city. Housing prices are stagnant in the area due to a lack of demand. This will limit the new marketing dollars that could go toward the pocket of an emerging superstar.

Detroit is a loser under the marketing dollars in big markets scenario.