Player Discussion: Nikolaj Ehlers Part III

Status
Not open for further replies.

Adam da bomb

Registered User
May 1, 2016
12,611
9,479
If Connor could work with Hendricks and Armia then everyone would be thrilled with Perrault on the top line. Granted they should move Perrault to the pp1 and Connor to pp2 to get Perrault's numbers up.
 

kelsier

Registered User
Aug 17, 2013
4,280
1,741
Why don't you provide the TOI data to backup your point, kelsier ? I'll take a look at it later when I can dig up the data, but to this point of the year, Ehlers (the topic of this thread) has put in just under a minute per game less TOI 5v5 on average than Connor, which equals a shift or two per game.

And of course I'm fine with debating the point. I'm even fine with conceding the point, if you provide the data. I don't mind being educated by those that are willing or have the interest in doing some work - many very good posters here have contributed to my personal knowledge of NHL hockey, and I appreciate that.

Edit: I'm compiling TOI for them now - Ehlers TOI has been lower than his normal for the last 3 games, to speak to your point. I must say: I hate all that all my favorite stat sites have gone down over the last 2-3 years - this info is hard to compile now. Have to finish my own site at some point.

I went to sleep and stayed as far away from the Jets boards as I possibly could until now, since it took up until this minute to finish up watching the game. I record the games over night, go to work and avoid social media & the Jets boards until I get back home and roll the tape.

Anyway, looks like you got your data without having to go dig it up. The last games apart from the Sens and now the Wings the icing has been rather visibly in the favour of the CSW line, even if one didn't actually follow it up by statistics. You just have to compare Laine and Connor basically to calculate the EV difference between 1st and the 2nd - easy math.
 

Babooch

Registered User
Jan 7, 2014
1,551
1,449
Ehlers next progression is to gain awareness on the ice and move the puck better. He is already very good but he won't be great if he just plays the game like a roadrunner.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ippenator

QuietContrarian

Registered User
May 28, 2008
8,260
3,083
Okay checking hockeyreference.com for individual game by game toi.

Over the whole season it's

24gp Connor: 17:56 - Higher than career avg.

30gp Ehlers: 15:48 - Lower than career avg.

Which imo is still big, considering Ehlers has 6 more games and played around 10 games on the 1st line avg. around 17-18mins. and considering the oZs% which is further down this post.

So im checking since the game against the Kings, as thats were I first complained over Ehlers usage.
I will add the game against NSH for Connor so they have 11 each.

Ehlers:


212017-11-222121-281WPG@LAKW01100000001030.01813:570000
222017-11-242221-283WPG@ANAW213101101010366.72114:250000
232017-11-252321-284WPG@SJSL00000000000020.02018:221100
242017-11-272421-286WPGMINW01102000010030.02015:151000
252017-11-292521-288WPG@COLL-OT01100000010020.02016:102000
262017-12-012621-290WPGVEGW112101001010425.01811:160000
272017-12-032721-292WPGOTTW00002000000030.02013:470000
282017-12-052821-294WPG@DETL000-10000000010.01712:480100
292017-12-072921-296WPG@FLAL101201000000425.02313:033000
302017-12-093021-298WPG@TBLL-OT101-241000000333.32215:201000
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Plus last night against the Canucks : 14:06

Avg. Toi: 14.24


Connor:

52017-11-201520-346WPG@NSHL011-10000010030.02317:331000
162017-11-221620-348WPG@LAKW00000000000030.02318:330000
172017-11-241720-350WPG@ANAW101101000000425.02318:441000
182017-11-251820-351WPG@SJSL000-20000000020.02016:460000
192017-11-271920-353WPGMINW123000100110333.32318:330000
202017-11-292020-355WPG@COLL-OT00002000000020.02217:04000
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
212017-12-012120-357WPGVEGW202001100000540.02117:570100
222017-12-052220-361WPG@DETL000-10000000030.02318:4201010.0
232017-12-072320-363WPG@FLAL000-20000000040.02119:011000
242017-12-092421-000WPG@TBLL-OT1011010000001100.02317:501000
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Plus last night against the Canucks : 18:15

Avg. Toi: 18:27

Couple that with oZs%:

Ehlers: 49%

Connor: 55.8%

Do with it what you want, but that imo is a HUGE difference in toi. 4 mins to be exact.
Plus many more Ozone starts.
 
Last edited:

YWGinYYZ

Registered User
Jul 3, 2011
28,480
7,117
Toronto
@ImGoingNucks - you don't state whether that's 5v5 TOI, or with with specialty team time included?

I don't think anyone was arguing that Connor wasn't getting some sheltered time, both in terms of QoT, and zone deployment.
 

QuietContrarian

Registered User
May 28, 2008
8,260
3,083
@ImGoingNucks - you don't state whether that's 5v5 TOI, or with with specialty team time included?

I don't think anyone was arguing that Connor wasn't getting some sheltered time, both in terms of QoT, and zone deployment.

I dunno, I think most people said the difference wasnt big, which imo it is.

Ive said several times earlier its all TOI.

As I mentioned I dont agree with always running the hot hand (pp1)
We talked about that earlier aswell.

Doesnt matter anyway, my point is, as ive also mentioned several times, the 1st line and pp1 gets used too much imo.
And the difference in KC and Ehlers TOI is very high the last 10-15 games.

I have several issues with the 1st/2nd line debate - But for now its just Ehlers Toi vs. KC toi. To keep it simple.
 

YWGinYYZ

Registered User
Jul 3, 2011
28,480
7,117
Toronto
And as I've said: PP1 has been so successful that PP2 doesn't get much ice time. I'm not about to complain about this. TOI is heavily specialty teams dependent: spend time in the box, and Ehlers isn't on the ice as he doesn't PK. Spend time on the PP, and Ehlers will get some time, but only if PP1 doesn't score. The 5v5 TOI difference is not "very high" the last 10-15 games.

I think his 5v5 TOI is fine - the rest is specialty teams gravy. Whose minutes should be reduced to up Ehlers TOI? Connor?
 
  • Like
Reactions: libertarian

QuietContrarian

Registered User
May 28, 2008
8,260
3,083
And as I've said: PP1 has been so successful that PP2 doesn't get much ice time. I'm not about to complain about this. TOI is heavily specialty teams dependent: spend time in the box, and Ehlers isn't on the ice as he doesn't PK. Spend time on the PP, and Ehlers will get some time, but only if PP1 doesn't score. The 5v5 TOI difference is not "very high" the last 10-15 games.

I think his 5v5 TOI is fine - the rest is specialty teams gravy. Whose minutes should be reduced to up Ehlers TOI? Connor?


I feel like you are talking around the subject a little.
This all started with me complaining about Ehlers toi, you then for some reason objected, and said toi difference wasnt to bad.
I now show it is. There was a time when the icetime was a little more even, like the start of the season without KC. even on special teams.
And now its because of special teams. - I never said 5v5. toi wasnt somewhat even, so I dont know why you keep mentioning it to me?

That said, and now that you keep mentioning it I dont think 5v5 is that even - Last night Ehlers had more PP than KC, and yet KC had 4 more minutes overall.

Ive said all along I even think pp1 is getting played way way to much.

The last few games pp1 hasnt been that gravy, we still see a huge difference in toi.

And even so, I am of the opinion that, if you are up a couple goals in a game, and there is not long left, or you have already bagged the game with some time left, and at the same time the pp1 has had a good few pts, you should let the pp2 run a bit. To give the confidence and time to gel.

I dont care what you think tbh. this will bite us in the ass later on. the 1st line who are also our 1st pp, will at some time get gassed. and then we rely on the 2nd line, which has no confidence or chemistry because they havent had the time to get it.

And yes, I think KC has been given the easiest time of any rookie in Jets 2.0. Straight onto the 1st line without getting moved once, straight onto pp1. No shuffling, even after bad games. Good zone starts and matchups.
Never subject to linechanges, even after his line or himself has a bad game, massive amounts of toi.

Laine, Ehlers, Chef, and the likes never got this treatment.

So yes, to keep a guy like Ehlers, who imo deserved to be on that pp1 and 1st line, should get some pp1 love. Take Wheelers spot and move Wheeler to KC's spot.

Move KC down a spot.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Ippenator

libertarian

Registered User
Jul 27, 2017
3,389
3,891
Middle Earth
I feel like you are talking around the subject a little.
This all started with me complaining about Ehlers toi, you then for some reason objected, and said toi difference wasnt to bad.
I now show it is. There was a time when the icetime was a little more even, like the start of the season without KC. even on special teams.
And now its because of special teams. - I never said 5v5. toi wasnt somewhat even, so I dont know why you keep mentioning it to me?

That said, and now that you keep mentioning it I dont think 5v5 is that even - Last night Ehlers had more PP than KC, and yet KC had 4 more minutes overall.

Ive said all along I even think pp1 is getting played way way to much.

The last few games pp1 hasnt been that gravy, we still see a huge difference in toi.

And even so, I am of the opinion that, if you are up a couple goals in a game, and there is not long left, or you have already bagged the game with some time left, and at the same time the pp1 has had a good few pts, you should let the pp2 run a bit. To give the confidence and time to gel.

I dont care what you think tbh. this will bite us in the ass later on. the 1st line who are also our 1st pp, will at some time get gassed. and then we rely on the 2nd line, which has no confidence or chemistry because they havent had the time to get it.

And yes, I think KC has been given the easiest time of any rookie in Jets 2.0. Straight onto the 1st line without getting moved once, straight onto pp1. No shuffling, even after bad games. Good zone starts and matchups.
Never subject to linechanges, even after his line or himself has a bad game, massive amounts of toi.

Laine, Ehlers, Chef, and the likes never got this treatment.

So yes, to keep a guy like Ehlers, who imo deserved to be on that pp1 and 1st line, should get some pp1 love. Take Wheelers spot and move Wheeler to KC's spot.

Move KC down a spot.

While I agree that Ehlers deserves more TOI why would you change both PP units when they have both been successful?
 

YWGinYYZ

Registered User
Jul 3, 2011
28,480
7,117
Toronto
This all started with me complaining about Ehlers toi, you then for some reason objected, and said toi difference wasnt to bad.

I said 5v5 TOI isn't that different.

I don't disagree that Connor has been sheltered - I've said that a number of times. He's paired with Scheif and Wheeler - that's a QoT sheltering. garret has discussed the benefits of this a few times - it can be better for a young player than trying to shelter him on a 3rd or 4th line.

While PP1 is working, I just don't see Ehlers getting much PP time.

Feel free to disagree, but personally I don't see much reason for concern on the TOI side of things. And I don't care that you don't care what I think. :P This is a discussion board, after all - we don't have to agree on everything.
 

QuietContrarian

Registered User
May 28, 2008
8,260
3,083
While I agree that Ehlers deserves more TOI why would you change both PP units when they have both been successful?

Id prefer they just run pp2 more than change anything ;)

But pp1 hasnt looked good for a few games now.

I said 5v5 TOI isn't that different.

I don't disagree that Connor has been sheltered - I've said that a number of times. He's paired with Scheif and Wheeler - that's a QoT sheltering. garret has discussed the benefits of this a few times - it can be better for a young player than trying to shelter him on a 3rd or 4th line.

While PP1 is working, I just don't see Ehlers getting much PP time.

Feel free to disagree, but personally I don't see much reason for concern on the TOI side of things. And I don't care that you don't care what I think. :P This is a discussion board, after all - we don't have to agree on everything.

Fair enough, I do think 5v5 is different, like yesterday :)

Didnt mean to sound harsh, ofc, we can disagree, and there is not much to be unsettled about as we are doing great in the standings.

I just think KC has been treated alot better than other rookies, and at the expense of other good young players at that.
And I think Ehlers does deserve more toi, but alas its not going to happen.

I just posted what I did, as someone asked for the difference in toi over the last 10-15 games.
If I had the time, id do it without special teams aswell.
 

surixon

Registered User
Jul 12, 2003
48,709
69,032
Winnipeg
Id prefer they just run pp2 more than change anything ;)

But pp1 hasnt looked good for a few games now.



Fair enough, I do think 5v5 is different, like yesterday :)

Didnt mean to sound harsh, ofc, we can disagree, and there is not much to be unsettled about as we are doing great in the standings.

I just think KC has been treated alot better than other rookies, and at the expense of other good young players at that.
And I think Ehlers does deserve more toi, but alas its not going to happen.

I just posted what I did, as someone asked for the difference in toi over the last 10-15 games.
If I had the time, id do it without special teams aswell.

Well both Laine and Ehlers got heay doses of ice time with Scheifele their rookie seasons son I don't see any favoritism. If anything I think the couch is trusting each of them to be able to drive their own line this season. It will be better for each of them in the long run to be the key cogs at both ends. As they improve both ways their icetime will improve imo.
 

QuietContrarian

Registered User
May 28, 2008
8,260
3,083
Well both Laine and Ehlers got heay doses of ice time with Scheifele their rookie seasons son I don't see any favoritism. If anything I think the couch is trusting each of them to be able to drive their own line this season. It will be better for each of them in the long run to be the key cogs at both ends. As they improve both ways their icetime will improve imo.

Ehlers had long stints with Thorbs back in his rookies season, and was shuffled alot.
Laine never got a steady go at the top line without lineshuffles and the likes.

IMO, KC is getting a very easy time compared to those two.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ippenator

surixon

Registered User
Jul 12, 2003
48,709
69,032
Winnipeg
Ehlers had long stints with Thorbs back in his rookies season, and was shuffled alot.
Laine never got a steady go at the top line without lineshuffles and the likes.

IMO, KC is getting a very easy time compared to those two.

He is also imo not as skilled or dynamic as those two either so I think that is why they are trusted to carry other players more. Sure Ehlers saw a lot of Thor (I didn't agree with it) but so did Connor last season. Lets not forget he spent 20ish games last season in the bottom 6. He hasn't just been spoon fed gravy minutes as an NHL player.
 

QuietContrarian

Registered User
May 28, 2008
8,260
3,083
He is also imo not as skilled or dynamic as those two either so I think that is why they are trusted to carry other players more. Sure Ehlers saw a lot of Thor (I didn't agree with it) but so did Connor last season. Lets not forget he spent 20ish games last season in the bottom 6. He hasn't just been spoon fed gravy minutes as an NHL player.

Fair enough.

Yeah he was given 20ish games in the bottom six. But not enough to call it a season - I think this season, he is definitely being spoon fed.

But doesnt matter, it wont change, and we as a team are fine.

Biggest problem for me, is the time the 1st line plays, will tire them out at some point.
 

surixon

Registered User
Jul 12, 2003
48,709
69,032
Winnipeg
Fair enough.

Yeah he was given 20ish games in the bottom six. But not enough to call it a season - I think this season, he is definitely being spoon fed.

But doesnt matter, it wont change, and we as a team are fine.

Biggest problem for me, is the time the 1st line plays, will tire them out at some point.

No disagreement on that. Scheifele and Wheeler should have a minute and a half shaved off their total ice time.
 

Trilliann

Tier 2 fan
May 12, 2016
1,561
987
Below Replacement Level
Fair enough.

Yeah he was given 20ish games in the bottom six. But not enough to call it a season - I think this season, he is definitely being spoon fed.

But doesnt matter, it wont change, and we as a team are fine.

Biggest problem for me, is the time the 1st line plays, will tire them out at some point.
yea last season Connor & Laine started on the 3rd line with Perreault, but then Little went down right away and the line shuffling started.
If ony Perreault could still play C, it would make everyone's life a lot easier :whine:
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ippenator

GNP

Here Comes the Jets -look out hockey world !!!
Oct 11, 2016
9,140
12,766
Winnipeg
I see Ehlers as being the "key" to the Jet's success. To a certain degree he can carry this team and make things happen-- on the offensive side of the ice. He may not be the Jet's most "effective" offensive guy--I think you'd have to go with Schiefle. Nik isn't the greatest in the defensive zone, but as long as he's decent there, his tremendous offensive skills far outweigh his lack of defense.

When the Jet's are slumping, Nik will lead a rush all by himself, carry the puck in the offensive zone and make a play. This lifts the whole team, and excites the fans. He's an incredible talent and you can see his confidence growing every game.

I don't think at this point that Laine is even close to Ehlers in terms of ability.

Speed kills-- Nik has it !!! along with a great accurate shot.
 

Couchcaptain

Registered User
Nov 11, 2016
383
126
Lost in the wilderness
I see Ehlers as being the "key" to the Jet's success. To a certain degree he can carry this team and make things happen-- on the offensive side of the ice. He may not be the Jet's most "effective" offensive guy--I think you'd have to go with Schiefle. Nik isn't the greatest in the defensive zone, but as long as he's decent there, his tremendous offensive skills far outweigh his lack of defense.

When the Jet's are slumping, Nik will lead a rush all by himself, carry the puck in the offensive zone and make a play. This lifts the whole team, and excites the fans. He's an incredible talent and you can see his confidence growing every game.

I don't think at this point that Laine is even close to Ehlers in terms of ability.

Speed kills-- Nik has it !!! along with a great accurate shot.

You just described one of the biggest flaws in his game. He tries to do too much himself, too often.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ippenator

DashingDane

Paul Maurice <3
Dec 16, 2014
3,359
5,102
Los Angeles
Beautiful steal that he had last night and almost capitalized on. Those are the kind of plays that makes it even more frustrating to be a fan of him. You know he has the speed and hands to be a solid defensive player but he doesn't utilize it enough. I thought he turned a corner after the first 10 games but reverted back to half assing it after being moved down. Hopefully yesterday reminds him how he needs to play and we see the more of the "complete" #Ehlite going forward.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Evil Little and GNP

DashingDane

Paul Maurice <3
Dec 16, 2014
3,359
5,102
Los Angeles
You just described one of the biggest flaws in his game. He tries to do too much himself, too often.

That's also what got him to the big league in the first place. It would be like asking Laine to stop shooting.

I don't think it's a flaw at all but he needs to make better decisions on those rushes when passing the puck. You don't have the only player on the team that consistently can enter the Ozone stop carrying the puck.
 

Ducky10

Searching for Mark Scheifele
Nov 14, 2014
19,809
31,386
Fair enough.

Yeah he was given 20ish games in the bottom six. But not enough to call it a season - I think this season, he is definitely being spoon fed.

But the point is he needs to be more than the others. If you don't, it exposes him and the team in other areas.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ImGoingNucks

GNP

Here Comes the Jets -look out hockey world !!!
Oct 11, 2016
9,140
12,766
Winnipeg
You just described one of the biggest flaws in his game. He tries to do to much himself, too often.

I'd only "partially" agree with this- but he's changing. When he skates the puck in and tries to "split" the defense, this is where I'd agree-- usually loses possession.

What he's starting to do now-- is when he skates into the offensive zone--he's starting to go "wide"--sideways and skating a big circle around the defenseman, and in behind the net, which creates a lot of time for guys to get into scoring position, and allows Ehler's some think time, as to how he wants to set up the play.

This is the way I think Ehler's should use his speed--we need him to do this !!! --it's very effective, and hard to defend. ( don't like to see him trying to split the defense)
 

Jets 31

This Dude loves the Jets and GIF's
Sponsor
Mar 3, 2015
21,860
61,304
Winnipeg
I love what Ehlers brings for the Jets , he is Tanev but he can score . :laugh: As the saying goes SPEED KILLS .
 

Robinson2187

Registered Schmoozer
Nov 22, 2015
2,574
2,143
Comox BC
I'd only "partially" agree with this- but he's changing. When he skates the puck in and tries to "split" the defense, this is where I'd agree-- usually loses possession.

What he's starting to do now-- is when he skates into the offensive zone--he's starting to go "wide"--sideways and skating a big circle around the defenseman, and in behind the net, which creates a lot of time for guys to get into scoring position, and allows Ehler's some think time, as to how he wants to set up the play.

This is the way I think Ehler's should use his speed--we need him to do this !!! --it's very effective, and hard to defend. ( don't like to see him trying to split the defense)

Agreed. He's getting to be very good at that behind the net curl play. It must drive defenders nuts trying to cover that due to his speed and passing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: GNP
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->