Player Discussion: Nikolaj Ehlers Part III

[JetsFan815]

I dont care what line Ehls is on, I care about icetime. And im just not as impressed woth KC as others are...

Ehlers Toi: 14:40
pp: 1:05

least of the 2nd line.

KC Toi: 20:20

Pp: 4:08.

Hey Ehls, thanks for signing that longterm team friendly deal.

No he didnt play well last night, but imo his confidence is taking a hit, also didnt smile alot, and he is mr. smiles.

I like the team is winning, but too much toi is given to the 1st line and pp1. It will wear them out eventully.

I dont remember Ehls or Laine getting this sheltered.

I also believe a talent like Ehls who is still developing needs just a bit sheltering still to optimize his potential.

Mark my words, it wouldnt suprise me to see his game and numbers take a huge hit this season - Hurt his confidence and KC surpassing him permanently.

His icetime was down this game because Maurice was (probably rightfully) chasing matching up the Seguin line against the Scheifele line all night. Since the Stars were chasing the game the Seguin line was out a lot. In games where the other team has a big dominant topline and the Jets are protecting a lead the 1st line will get more minutes. In games where the other team doesn't have a big elite top line or the Jets are not defending the lead, you will see more even distribution of icetime between the wingers on the top 2 lines. For example the wingers on the top 2 lines got similar icetime in the 2nd Penguins game and the Habs game. I would expect the icetime to be more evenly distributed in the Vegas game and as most likely in the Coyotes game as well unless the coyotes are coming on strong and the Jets are defending a lead.

 

[QuietContrarian]

His icetime was down this game because Maurice was (probably rightfully) chasing matching up the Seguin line against the Scheifele line all night. Since the Stars were chasing the game the Seguin line was out a lot. In games where the other team has a big dominant topline and the Jets are protecting a lead the 1st line will get more minutes. In games where the other team doesn't have a big elite top line or the Jets are not defending the lead, you will see more even distribution of icetime between the wingers on the top 2 lines. For example the wingers on the top 2 lines got similar icetime in the 2nd Penguins game and the Habs game. I would expect the icetime to be more evenly distributed in the Vegas game and as most likely in the Coyotes game as well unless the coyotes are coming on strong and the Jets are defending a lead.

Probably, but then I just think Laine or Nik should be on that top line

Its no beef, we are winning, but this will hurt, especilly Ehlers, longterm.

If Ehlers continues to get 15mins or below, might aswell try him on the 3rd line with other linemates - They almost get the same amount of ice anyway.

More icetime to the 1st line is ok, but yesterday was extreme.

And I know people dont believe it, but im almost certain Ehlers confidence is taking a huge hit with this which is also effecing his play as of late - And that 2nd line is just not working in any way, shape or form - It hurts my eyes watching them play, no coherent zone entries, no chemistry, no pts together.

Oh well, enough with the hiccups, we are winning and that at least feels awesome

 

[KingBogo]

I dont care what line Ehls is on, I care about icetime. And im just not as impressed woth KC as others are...

Ehlers Toi: 14:40
pp: 1:05

least of the 2nd line.

KC Toi: 20:20

Pp: 4:08.

Hey Ehls, thanks for signing that longterm team friendly deal.

No he didnt play well last night, but imo his confidence is taking a hit, also didnt smile alot, and he is mr. smiles.

I like the team is winning, but too much toi is given to the 1st line and pp1. It will wear them out eventully.

I dont remember Ehls or Laine getting this sheltered.

I also believe a talent like Ehls who is still developing needs just a bit sheltering still to optimize his potential.

Mark my words, it wouldnt suprise me to see his game and numbers take a huge hit this season - Hurt his confidence and KC surpassing him permanently.

I think you are reading way too much into game by game variation. Ehlers is averaging a shade under 17 mins TOI per game. Right now Sheifele and Wheeler are white hot and Connor is playing a complimentary fast on the puck game. So far we have a spread out schedule and it isn't like Scheifele and Wheeler have been ground down with long playoff runs. As the season goes on you will likely see gradually more balance.

 

[QuietContrarian]

I think you are reading way too much into game by game variation. Ehlers is averaging a shade under 17 mins TOI per game. Right now Sheifele and Wheeler are white hot and Connor is playing a complimentary fast on the puck game. So far we have a spread out schedule and it isn't like Scheifele and Wheeler have been ground down with long playoff runs. As the season goes on you will likely see gradually more balance.

Probably, I just think Ehlers looked fine when he was with Chef and Cap and also played fast on the puck, so I probably just dont see the reason to move him - And I am concerned this will stagnate him and hurt his confidence - It just annoyes me personally that KC is on that line over Laine or Ehlers.

But, like I said my hiccups are over, we are winning, so ill let it slip

Lets just hope the 2nd line clicks at some point, because so far they look lost together, and that is hurting all 3 imo.

 

[YWGinYYZ]

@ImGoingNucks - they're sheltering KC, IMO. I know it sounds counter-intuitive, but some studies have shown that QoT is more important than QoC.

The 2nd line has shown signs of waking up over the last 5 games. I'm willing to give the experiment some more time.

 

[QuietContrarian]

@ImGoingNucks - they're sheltering KC, IMO. I know it sounds counter-intuitive, but some studies have shown that QoT is more important than QoC.

The 2nd line has shown signs of waking up over the last 5 games. I'm willing to give the experiment some more time.

For sure - I also believe QoT is more important than QoC, I just vented a little bit - And not understanding why KC is getting so much shelter compared to what Ehlers and Laine did as rookies.

Ill be patient, which is alot easier when winning, and that we are - But if that 2nd line doesnt wake up (yesterday was a bad game for them imo) Id try to at least shuffle the bottom 9 if PoMo wants to keep the 1st line.

 

[sipowicz]

@ImGoingNucks - they're sheltering KC, IMO. I know it sounds counter-intuitive, but some studies have shown that QoT is more important than QoC.

The 2nd line has shown signs of waking up over the last 5 games. I'm willing to give the experiment some more time.

Kyle Connor has 5 assists in 9 games, Laine and Ehlers have 5 assists in a combined 28 games this season. I think Connor is on the correct line. Both Laine and Ehlers are kind of selfish players which sometimes is a good thing, they don’t exactly gel together.

 

[QuietContrarian]

Kyle Connor has 5 assists in 9 games, Laine and Ehlers have 5 assists in a combined 28 games this season. I think Connor is on the correct line. Both Laine and Ehlers are kind of selfish players which sometimes is a good thing, they don’t exactly gel together.

Ehlers had 39 assists last season, so I dont think that is quite fair.

Not Ehlers nor Laine got any chance to really develop chemistry with the 1st line this season.

Laine is not selfish, he just knows he has a spectacular shot, and thus uses it, btw he has been rather unselfish this season.

IMO Chef and Cap being red hot has more to do with him having crazy 4 assists btw (2 of which are secondary) not 5 in 9 games, than him deserving being on that line more than Laine or Ehlers.

This is exactly the underrating im talking about - Imo Connor has benefitted greatly from being on that line. Ehlers and Laine need to be selfish on that 2nd line or else they wouldnt get any points - Line is not gelling at all.

 

[TS Quint]

Probably, I just think Ehlers looked fine when he was with Chef and Cap and also played fast on the puck, so I probably just dont see the reason to move him - And I am concerned this will stagnate him and hurt his confidence - It just annoyes me personally that KC is on that line over Laine or Ehlers.

But, like I said my hiccups are over, we are winning, so ill let it slip

Lets just hope the 2nd line clicks at some point, because so far they look lost together, and that is hurting all 3 imo.

It's funny how people talk about their favorite players. If their favorite is not performing it's time to get the blender out who cares if the WSC line is unstoppable, we need to get Ehlers going! If Ehlers was doing well and the coach changed the lines it's time to get the pitch forks!

I love that WSC line. WS have great chemistry then you add in Connor to compliment them. Not sure how to run that through the rest of the line up in a similar way to spread the offense ver the top 3 lines.

Traditionally you pair a winger with a centre but I'm curious about moving Lowry to the 2nd ( waiting for the flames on this suggestion) with Ehlers and Laine. Lowry would play a defensive/net front roll and let Laine and Ehlers fly. Then Perrault comes back to play with Little and Armia (I've liked him in front of the net on the PP).

You roll that top 3. I think at different times each can get hot and earn more time. Little and Perrault would get some TOI bump from special teams so our top players will still get roughly the same TOI.

Just an idea.

 

[QuietContrarian]

It's funny how people talk about their favorite players. If their favorite is not performing it's time to get the blender out who cares if the WSC line is unstoppable, we need to get Ehlers going! If Ehlers was doing well and the coach changed the lines it's time to get the pitch forks!

I love that WSC line. WS have great chemistry then you add in Connor to compliment them. Not sure how to run that through the rest of the line up in a similar way to spread the offense ver the top 3 lines.

Traditionally you pair a winger with a centre but I'm curious about moving Lowry to the 2nd ( waiting for the flames on this suggestion) with Ehlers and Laine. Lowry would play a defensive/net front roll and let Laine and Ehlers fly. Then Perrault comes back to play with Little and Armia (I've liked him in front of the net on the PP).

You roll that top 3. I think at different times each can get hot and earn more time. Little and Perrault would get some TOI bump from special teams so our top players will still get roughly the same TOI.

Just an idea.

I think you are not reading what im writing!

You cant really say Ehlers nor Laine arent performing - They are getting goals are they not? Mostly becuase they both have great shots.

I dont care Ehlers or Laine are not on the 1st line, I care they are not getting enough toi (especially Ehlers) And I care that KC is getting sheltered more than Laine or Ehlers seemed to get. Like I have written several times, we are winning so im good.

I absolutely believe a guy like Ehlers belongs on the 1st pp not even a doubt if you ask me.

Btw I agree Chef and Cap need to stay together, but id like to see Laine, Connor and Ehls getting rotated every now and again.
Or at least shuffle the bottom 9. As mentioned many times, rolling the 1st line like this is not sustainable, and imo we risk loosing a player like Ehlers to bad confidence.

This is a forum, is it not, posters are allowed to voice concerns, annoyances et. al. are they not?

Dont be mad, im not, im enjoying the wins - I just want to see 2 potential superstars suceed for the better of the team. And that 2nd line is just not working, not putting then in a situation to succeed. No, im not the biggest KC fan, and I think its a little unfair he went straight from a call up to the 1st line and 1st pp, when Ehlers was producing - Im allowed to think that no? I annoyed Laine didnt get to go there before Connor did, because I think that would make the 1st line even more lethal and because I think KC and Ehlers with Little would look great. Am I not allowed to think that?

Chef is my fav. Jet btw

I just have very high hopes for Both Laine and Ehlers, I voiced that Laine needs more Toi in the Laine thread aswell.

 

[TS Quint]

I think you are not reading what im writing!

You cant really say Ehlers nor Laine arent performing - They are getting goals are they not? Mostly becuase they both have great shots.

I dont care Ehlers or Laine are not on the 1st line, I care they are not getting enough toi (especially Ehlers) And I care that KC is getting a sheltered more than Laine or Ehlers seemed to get. Like I have written several times, we are winnign som im good.

Btw I agree Chef and Cap need to stay together, but id like to see Laine, Connor and Ehls getting rotated every now and again.
Or at least shuffle the bottom 9. As mentioned many times, rolling the 1st line like this is not sustainable, and imo we risk loosing a player like Ehlers to bad confidence.

Bolded is pretty funny. You don't care if they play on the first line but you want them to play on the 1st line.

So you complain about Connors use. I spoke directly to you complaint. You tell me I didn't read it, then repeat messing with the first line that is playing well when I said my opinion is you don't mess with it and I suggested an alternative. And geee who did you suggest moving into connors spot AGAIN? Ehlers and Laine.

Jesus.

 

[QuietContrarian]

Bolded is pretty funny. You don't care if they play on the first line but you want them to play on the 1st line.

So you complain about Connors use. I spoke directly to you complaint. You tell me I didn't read it, then repeat messing with the first line that is playing well when I said my opinion is you don't mess with it and I suggested an alternative. And geee who did you suggest moving into connors spot AGAIN? Ehlers and Laine.

Jesus.

Lol, no need to condescend buddy

Taking things a little out of context are we?

Just because id like to see the 3 shuffled, doesnt mean I have a problem with neither being on the 1st line. Thats because id like to see the two others have a chance at more toi which only the 1st line seems to get atm. We are rolling with a top 3 and a bottom 9 it seems.

Im sure both Ehlers and Laine wouldn't mess with a red hot 1st line, quite the opposite imo.
Im not convinced KC is an important component of that lines success, imo removing him would not hurt it.

Again, read what i write - I wrote that I dont like KC just strolled right into the 1st line and 1st pp when Ehls was performing fine there on pure principle, and Ehlers at least belongs on the 1st pp.

I then wrote if PoMo doesnt want to mess with the 1st line, id like to see him shuffle the top 9.
I honestly dont care if they are not on the 1st line, I care more that Connor didnt really earn that spot nor the pp1, and I care that Ehls and Laine arent getting enough toi, and that the 2nd line is not working at all.

Shuffle the bottom 9 and even out toi for all I care.

 

[TS Quint]

Lol, no need to condescend buddy

Taking things a little out of context are we?

Just because id like to see the 3 shuffled, doesnt mean I have a problem with neither being on the 1st line. Thats because id like to see the two others have a chance at more toi which only the 1st line seems to get atm. We are rolling with a top 3 and a bottom 9 it seems.

Im sure both Ehlers and Laine wouldn't mess with a red hot 1st line, quite the opposite imo.
Im not convinced KC is an important component of that lines success, imo removing him would not hurt it.

Again, read what i write - I wrote that I dont like KC just strolled right into the 1st line and 1st pp when Ehls was performing fine there on pure principle, and Ehlers at least belongs on the 1st pp.

I then wrote if PoMo doesnt want to mess with the 1st line, whose Corsi against events are not good btw, id like to see him shuffle the 1top 9.
I honestly dont care if they are not on the 1st line, I care more that Connor didnt really earn that spot nor the pp1, and I care that Ehls and Laine arent getting enough toi, and that the 2nd line is not working at all.

Shuffle the bottom 9 and even out toi for all I care.

Again, I read what you wrote (you're calling me condescending?) and I spoke directly to it. I'm with you on shuffling the bottom 9 and think you are wrong with moving Connor. I don't know why this has to be so hard for you.

I see having Connor with our 2 strongest players as a welcome change in what PoMo has done in the past which is loading the top two lines which you seem to like. I then suggested taking that idea further with my line up suggestion. Ehlers and Laine need to be their own drivers, they can't wait around for Scheifele Wheeler or Little to do it for them if this team is going to be successful. There's only one puck and having Ehlers or Laine be the third wheel on the line is a waste when they aren't going to upgrade the line over Connor much if at all.

If the 2nd line or a reschuffled line up plays better the TOI will be further spread out.

 

[Sperss1997]

I am a huge Ehlers fan, and I am annoyed as hell that ELL dont gel. I think PoMo should split them up now Lowry is back. Imho the choice PoMo made when he put KC on the first line with chef and Cap, was a nobrainer and still is. He will be sheltered defensively and get room to blossom offensively. Place a talented youngster who had obvious problems with finding his feet on various 2nd or 3rd line combos, on the first line with top blueliners, was the best possible way to shelter him and give him confidence.
When Perrault is back I expect him to keep that first line going. This is a good opportunity for PoMo to get three scoring lines.

ELL doesnt work at all, that is a problem PoMo need to solve. He has to split that line up and try whatever makes a little sense. Even demoting Little to the third line C should be on his mind. Mix things up but dont split that first line up. If Maurice chose to put the first line in the mix then I would play Kc Little Wheeler as a second line and ESL.

No matter what - you cant have three super skilled players on a line who doesnt produce for this long without doing something

 

[Evil Little]

He still needs more icetime.

I still think its a little unfair that KC not only took his spot on the 1st line but also on the 1st pp.

Not alot of toi so far in tonights game.

So far its impressive he has kept his pts up, but I suspect he will hit slumps with limited toi and sometimes very little pp, since pp1 usually eats most of the pp.

Ehlers and Conner don't play the same role on the PP.

Conner is basically doing what Lowry was doing before, albeit in a faster, less physical way.

Ehlers is doing on PP2 what Perreault was doing and Wheeler is doing on PP1. Wheeler has been having success lately, by the way: his 11.19 is 4th in PP P/60 for those with >20:00 TOI behind Sergachev (11.76 PP P/60), Stamkos (11.54 PP P/60), and Klingberg (11.21 PP P/60).

 

[QuietContrarian]

Again, I read what you wrote (you're calling me condescending?) and I spoke directly to it. I'm with you on shuffling the bottom 9 and think you are wrong with moving Connor. I don't know why this has to be so hard for you.

I see having Connor with our 2 strongest players as a welcome change in what PoMo has done in the past which is loading the top two lines which you seem to like. I then suggested taking that idea further with my line up suggestion. Ehlers and Laine need to be their own drivers, they can't wait around for Scheifele Wheeler or Little to do it for them if this team is going to be successful. There's only one puck and having Ehlers or Laine be the third wheel on the line is a waste when they aren't going to upgrade the line over Connor much if at all.

If the 2nd line or a reschuffled line up plays better the TOI will be further spread out.

Yes I called you condescending, as writing I dont think you read what I wrote is not condescending, mearly saying that your reply seems off with what I wrote - At least I meant no harm, but your second post seemed a little harsh to me (Since I did write I was OK with a shuffled top 9) Apoligize if no bad intentions were had.

You dont think the 2 top lines are loaded now? Just in a wrong way? I definitely think Ehlers or Laine would make the 1st line produce more spread, than just Chef and Cap with most of the pts.

All I am getting out of this is that we are probably more on the same page than both of us think - All I think differently is that KC should never have been put on that 1st line and 1st pp to begin with. based on principle and on what it could send of messages to other young players.

I still think putting Laine on the 1st line and KC with Little and Ehlers, could make Little and Ehlers line work.

But yes I am all for shuffling the bottom 9, and getting them some more ice. I still think Wheels should take KC's spot on the 1st pp, and Ehlers then replaces Wheels - Then KC can go on the 2nd pp.

I am a huge Ehlers fan, and I am annoyed as hell that ELL dont gel. I think PoMo should split them up now Lowry is back. Imho the choice PoMo made when he put KC on the first line with chef and Cap, was a nobrainer and still is. He will be sheltered defensively and get room to blossom offensively. Place a talented youngster who had obvious problems with finding his feet on various 2nd or 3rd line combos, on the first line with top blueliners, was the best possible way to shelter him and give him confidence.
When Perrault is back I expect him to keep that first line going. This is a good opportunity for PoMo to get three scoring lines.

ELL doesnt work at all, that is a problem PoMo need to solve. He has to split that line up and try whatever makes a little sense. Even demoting Little to the third line C should be on his mind. Mix things up but dont split that first line up. If Maurice chose to put the first line in the mix then I would play Kc Little Wheeler as a second line and ESL.

No matter what - you cant have three super skilled players on a line who doesnt produce for this long without doing something

I dont think he should have been put there in the 1st place, but thats just me.

I think that now that he is there tho, its ok, but they need to spread the icetime more, and I still think Ehlers should be on the 1st pp. And then put Wheels to KC's spot - And then demote KC to the 2nd pp.

Imo it's just not fair to a player who did well and who had super sophmore season for a rookie to come in and have waay more toi - I think it sends a wrong message to Ehlers, and it might just be me, but I think it shows, looks demoralized.

The ELL line is my biggest concern tho, its clearly broken, and has no chemistry at all, blame is on no single player like some want to make it out to be - They clearly just dotnt think the game at the same pace or tactics.

 

[QuietContrarian]

Ehlers and Conner don't play the same role on the PP.

Conner is basically doing what Lowry was doing before, albeit in a faster, less physical way.

Ehlers is doing on PP2 what Perreault was doing and Wheeler is doing on PP1. Wheeler has been having success lately, by the way: his 11.19 is 4th in PP P/60 for those with >20:00 TOI behind Sergachev (11.76 PP P/60), Stamkos (11.54 PP P/60), and Klingberg (11.21 PP P/60).

See above

BTW guys who disagree with me - I dont want to turn this into another Laine thread, and I dont think Ehlers place on this team is more important than winning - Just to clear that up.

Other than that, it should be pretty clear what my problem with KC on the 1st line is, and what my problem with ELL is.

 

[DashingDane]

See above

BTW guys who disagree with me - I dont want to turn this into another Laine thread, and I dont think Ehlers place on this team is more important than winning - Just to clear that up.

Other than that, it should be pretty clear what my problem with KC on the 1st line is, and what my problem with ELL is.

Well I whole heartedly agree about the TOI. I'm loving the results thus far but I don't think running Chef and Wheels into the ground helps us long term. I don't know what the historical average is but I seems like over 3 min more a game is too much. I definitely think Wheels and Chef for that matter are bad a keeping their shifts short. I'm guessing if they just get that under control the TOI's would seem more reasonable.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Well I whole heartedly agree about the TOI. I'm loving the results thus far but I don't think running Chef and Wheels into the ground helps us long term. I don't know what the historical average is but I seems like over 3 min more a game is too much. I definitely think Wheels and Chef for that matter are bad a keeping their shifts short. I'm guessing if they just get that under control the TOI's would seem more reasonable.

You make it seem like the toi is by design. When the first line cools down the other lines will get more time. You play the hot hand. This is probably not going to be the case for all 82 games. If so, I am fine with winning and don't care who gets ice time. If there are hurt feelings but the team is winning, well that's why they are getting paid millions of dollars so that they massage their own egos.

 

[Ducky10]

Ehlers is trying to take too many shortcuts lately, his speed is absolutely electric and game breaking but he's been trying to put the cart ahead of the horse a few too many times. Laine by contrast has been working from down low way more and has looked much better for it. He's also playing his angles on the forecheck way better, Ehlers is still hoping things come to him, as opposed to making things happen by going to the play. Connor has been doing this better than Ehlers as well imo.

Ehlers looks like he's playing out there by himself sometimes.

 

[QuietContrarian]

Ehlers is trying to take too many shortcuts lately, his speed is absolutely electric and game breaking but he's been trying to put the cart ahead of the horse a few too many times. Laine by contrast has been working from down low way more and has looked much better for it. He's also playing his angles on the forecheck way better, Ehlers is still hoping things come to him, as opposed to making things happen by going to the play. Connor has been doing this better than Ehlers as well imo.

Ehlers looks like he's playing out there by himself sometimes.

not sure how to reply to this, since I dont really agree.. I actually Think Ehlers was better than Laine untill very recently.

BUT, I do agree that the last 2-3 games Ehlers needs to step up, he looks sluggish.

Edit: Nvm, missed the recently part

 

[Ducky10]

not sure how to reply to this, since I dont really agree.. I actually Think Ehlers was better than Laine untill very recently.

BUT, I do agree that the last 2-3 games Ehlers needs to step up, he looks sluggish.

Thus the word "lately".

I don't think Ehlers has been sluggish, he's just not playing particularly smart at the moment.

 

[QuietContrarian]

Thus the word "lately".

I don't think Ehlers has been sluggish, he's just not playing particularly smart at the moment.

Lol I missed that part, I corrected myself just as u answered.

No you are correct, he is not Playing very smart. Sluggish was a bad choice of Words.

 

[Halberdier]

Ehlers should be switched with Kyle Connor. That would make both 1st and especially the 2nd line much better. Things started clicking with Connor and Laine right from the puck drop. Immediate chemistry. Only on that game Ehlers and Wheeler sucked hard, and because the 1st line was bad for two first periods, PoMo demoted Ehlers to the 2nd line. And as expected, ELL is not working.

 

[DashingDane]

You make it seem like the toi is by design. When the first line cools down the other lines will get more time. You play the hot hand. This is probably not going to be the case for all 82 games. If so, I am fine with winning and don't care who gets ice time. If there are hurt feelings but the team is winning, well that's why they are getting paid millions of dollars so that they massage their own egos.

I agree to some extent. I think you are right that the hot hands should play more which is why I wouldn't expect/want any lineup changes. Imo lowering their toi is more a case of taking some of that pressure off the top guys while they still have energy. And i'm not sure if the toi is by design or not. Only PMo would know. I do know that while CSW has been insanely productive recently I have also noticed them getting hemmed in their own end for sustained time at least a couple of times a game. I think the reason that happens is because they get gassed. I don't think this matters much this early in the season but could see it becoming a problem come playoffs time.