Nick Jensen

[Redder Winger]

I definitely dont think he outplayed ouellet to the point that Jensen basically never came out of the line up. That was always odd to me from Blashill. Ouellet was slower sure, but he had a better head for the game

7 letters for you.
NCAA
USA

 

[Hatter of the Beach]

Well... he’s better and a lot cheaper than Brendan Smith.

Would be an ok 6th D on a stacked team.

 

[newfy]

Well... he’s better and a lot cheaper than Brendan Smith.

Would be an ok 6th D on a stacked team.

Hes definitely not better than Smith. Cheaper yes, but actual on ice play hes not

 

[Henkka]

Hes definitely not better than Smith. Cheaper yes, but actual on ice play hes not

Currently, Jensen is an NHL player and Smith was waived to AHL.

Smith played 11 games for Hartford Wolf Pack at this season. That's his latest "merit".


I wonder... what kind of critics Ken Holland would got, if he traded 2nd+3rd for a defenceman, then re-signs him for 4.35M for 4 years, and waives the guy on his 2nd season after ~60 games from the trade.

These are moves from a Hockey Horror Movie.

My god, how does Rangers GM still have a job ?

 

[newfy]

Currently, Jensen is an NHL player and Smith was waived to AHL.

Smith played 11 games for Hartford Wolf Pack at this season. That's his latest "merit".


I wonder... what kind of critics Ken Holland would got, if he traded 2nd+3rd for a defenceman, then re-signs him for 4.35M for 4 years, and waives the guy on his 2nd season after ~60 games from the trade.

These are moves from a Hockey Horror Movie.

My god, how does Rangers GM still have a job ?

Hes waived because the rangers went into a full rebuild and he makes a lot of money. If Smith made 600 grand teams would line up for him on the bottom pairing before jensen

 

[Hen Kolland]

7 letters for you.
NCAA
USA

I don't see the bias. He was given a roster by the front office, they deployed players based on what they know about them and what they thought world bring back wins. There's a reason Blashill is behind the bench of a NHL hockey team and we are sitting behind keyboards. There's a reason he gets asked to coach the national team and we are left to second guess his every move. You don't have to like him, but at least respect that he knows more about coaching a team that any of us and there's a method to his madness.

 

[dragonballgtz]

Amazing skater, not a very good player of hockey.

Luckily he can bail himself out sometimes.

And all the more reason why it's funny as hell/disappointing/amazing that he gets knocked on his arse multiple times in a game.

 

[Redder Winger]

I don't see the bias. He was given a roster by the front office, they deployed players based on what they know about them and what they thought world bring back wins. There's a reason Blashill is behind the bench of a NHL hockey team and we are sitting behind keyboards. There's a reason he gets asked to coach the national team and we are left to second guess his every move. You don't have to like him, but at least respect that he knows more about coaching a team that any of us and there's a method to his madness.

Yeah.
No thanks.

Is this what you said about Matt Millen and Marty Morninwheg?

 

[Hen Kolland]

Yeah.
No thanks.

Is this what you said about Matt Millen and Marty Morninwheg?

Who's to say that Millen wasn't the cause of Morninwheg's failure? Everyone knows the Lions couldn't put together a good roster, and at the end of the day, that's on the GM...not the coach. That would equate to wanting Holland fired, and if Blashill goes down with him, so be it. And if that's your only rebuttal, you're missing the point. Blashill was given control of a sinking ship and it has continued to sink, but the young players that figure into the long term plans have shown signs of growth. Prior to taking over, Blashill was sought after by other teams, hence the effort to pay him and keep him around, and continues to be held in high enough regard that he hasn't been outright fired for shit team performance (because management knows he has nothing to work with) and on top of that USA Men's Hockey still wants him around as the head coach. Obviously he is doing something to make people that actually matter believe that he is a good coach; whether or not he is would be a different story. I DON'T SEE A BIAS. Address that statement and defend your original point that somehow former-NCAA, USA-born hockey players are getting preferential treatment.

Dylan Larkin - best player on the team this year, you could argue Zetterberg but I would respectfully disagree
Justin Abdelkader - saw his deployment drop to being a 3rd line player used in shutdown roles, when previously was a top 6 skater relied on for offense
Luke Glendening - continued playing his role of 4th line center and PKer, part of the best PK forward unit on the team
Jimmy Howard - best goalie on the team all year, unfortunately
Danny Dekeyser - played top 4 minutes on a team, again, unfortunately, he was one of the best 4 defensemen we had to offer
Luke Witkowski - played in 31 games averaging under 7 minutes
David Booth - played in 28 games averaging under 7 minutes

Finally, the cause of all this debate, Nick Jensen. Not a good NHL defenseman. Neither is Ouellet. It comes down to a matter of personal preference. You like Ouellet for your reasons, Blashill likes Jensen for his. Does it even matter? You're talking about likely the last person to earn a starting spot any given day, with the other one being whoever manned the 12th forward spot on the 4th line.

You can argue that some people are too old, or that some might be overpaid, or that someone didn't get enough of a chance, but for f***'s sake, this team is horrible no matter what. Are there some oversights? Absolutely, but we aren't talking about a crime worthy of firing someone, he just likes a different fringe NHL defenseman than you.

 

[Winger98]

On our team it's the entire back end and a third of the forwards.

Jensen averaged a hair over 16 minutes a night. How few is he supposed to play before he's not over his head?

I definitely dont think he outplayed ouellet to the point that Jensen basically never came out of the line up. That was always odd to me from Blashill. Ouellet was slower sure, but he had a better head for the game

I never understood it, either. His play fits with what the league values right now, though. Holland should be seeing if he can find a sucker who'll give up a third or such for Jensen.

 

[CaptainCrosscheck]

7 letters for you.
NCAA
USA

BS post no proof

 

[SoupNazi]

He's great for sitting in the press box. Other than that I don't see a reason to keep him around, honestly.

 

[Redder Winger]

BS post no proof

These things can't be proved.
But here's what we know.

Nick Jensen was behind Alexei Marchenko and Xavier Ouellet and even Ryan Sproul.
Suddenly, last year, he surpassed them all.
Despite the fact that Marchenko and Ouellet actually know how to play defense (Marchenko's GA/60 was best on the Red Wings when he was waived - yet another stupid Holland decision).
Marchenko gave up 1.59 goals/60.
XO gave up 2.11 goals/60
Jensen gave up 2.98 goals/60
This - even though XO and Marchenko played more defensive zone faceoffs.
This, even though XO and Marchenko were younger than Jensen.

The only thing that Jensen can do is skate nice. Other than that, he's AHL caliber in every way.
Yet somehow, he surpassed 3 better defenseman and became an EVERYDAY player on this team.
Why do you think that is?

We could have traded Luke Glendening instead of Sheahan, right?
We chose to keep the American NCAA guy and trade the Canadian NCAA guy.

Athanasiou. Mantha.
Canadian kids criticized in the paper, left right and center.
Will be interesting to see if Bertuzzi and Rasmussen get as much negative attention from the coach.

Why is Luke Witkowski even on this team? Because he's an American NCAA kid who played for Blash at Western.

Howard over Mrazek - every f***ing game in November and December when Blashill and Howard drove the team over the cliff.

Going to be interesting to see how this plays out in coming years, because there aren't many USA-born NCAAers coming up the system.

Patrick Holway - American born NCAAer
David Pope -- NCAA but Canadian.
Chase Pearson - NCAA but Canadian
Jack Adams- American born NCAAer
Keith Petruzelli - American born NCAAere

 

[kliq]

These things can't be proved.
But here's what we know.

Nick Jensen was behind Alexei Marchenko and Xavier Ouellet and even Ryan Sproul.
Suddenly, last year, he surpassed them all.
Despite the fact that Marchenko and Ouellet actually know how to play defense (Marchenko's GA/60 was best on the Red Wings when he was waived - yet another stupid Holland decision).
Marchenko gave up 1.59 goals/60.
XO gave up 2.11 goals/60
Jensen gave up 2.98 goals/60
This - even though XO and Marchenko played more defensive zone faceoffs.
This, even though XO and Marchenko were younger than Jensen.

The only thing that Jensen can do is skate nice. Other than that, he's AHL caliber in every way.
Yet somehow, he surpassed 3 better defenseman and became an EVERYDAY player on this team.
Why do you think that is?

We could have traded Luke Glendening instead of Sheahan, right?
We chose to keep the American NCAA guy and trade the Canadian NCAA guy.

Athanasiou. Mantha.
Canadian kids criticized in the paper, left right and center.
Will be interesting to see if Bertuzzi and Rasmussen get as much negative attention from the coach.

Why is Luke Witkowski even on this team? Because he's an American NCAA kid who played for Blash at Western.

Howard over Mrazek - every ****ing game in November and December when Blashill and Howard drove the team over the cliff.

Going to be interesting to see how this plays out in coming years, because there aren't many USA-born NCAAers coming up the system.

Patrick Holway - American born NCAAer
David Pope -- NCAA but Canadian.
Chase Pearson - NCAA but Canadian
Jack Adams- American born NCAAer
Keith Petruzelli - American born NCAAere

Marchenko was waived, went to Toronto, where he was also waived/cleared (ie. all other NHL teams passed on him).
His agent even went on record to say Marchenko wants to play in the NHL again.

https://www.tsn.ca/leafs-d-marchenko-heading-to-russia-1.830660

It seems that anytime the Wings part with a player 26 years old or younger it makes you angry regardless of who the player is.

 

[Redder Winger]

Marchenko was waived, went to Toronto, where he was also waived/cleared (ie. all other NHL teams passed on him).
His agent even went on record to say Marchenko wants to play in the NHL again.

https://www.tsn.ca/leafs-d-marchenko-heading-to-russia-1.830660

It seems that anytime the Wings part with a player 26 years old or younger it makes you angry regardless of who the player is.

Must every retort have personal criticism?

Marchenko wanted to go to Russia. That was well known. He also hopes to return one day.

And yeah.
Every time we give up on a young guy with promise while shitsticks like Ericsson take a regular shift for a losing team that desperately needs to throw in the cards and start all over, I'm gonna beef.

 

[TCNorthstars]

Must every retort have personal criticism?

Marchenko wanted to go to Russia. That was well known. He also hopes to return one day.

And yeah.
Every time we give up on a young guy with promise while ****sticks like Ericsson take a regular shift for a losing team that desperately needs to throw in the cards and start all over, I'm gonna beef.

A ****stick is a ****stick. Who the heck cares how old they are? Marchenko wanted to go to Russia because nobody in the NHL wanted him!

 

[Redder Winger]

A ****stick is a ****stick. Who the heck cares how old they are? Marchenko wanted to go to Russia because nobody in the NHL wanted him!

Well, I'll take a 24-year-old dirt cheap shitstick who can get better over a 33-year-old overpaid, declining shitstick any day of the week.

 

[kliq]

Must every retort have personal criticism?

Marchenko wanted to go to Russia. That was well known. He also hopes to return one day.

And yeah.
Every time we give up on a young guy with promise while ****sticks like Ericsson take a regular shift for a losing team that desperately needs to throw in the cards and start all over, I'm gonna beef.

I never said anything personal. I said:

"It seems that anytime the Wings part with a player 26 years old or younger it makes you angry regardless of who the player is."

This is a message board and your posting history is going to come up, just as mine will, just as others will. You bring up age all the time in away that makes it appear that age is the be all end all to you, don't get mad at me because I am acknowledging that in my post.

I dont think anybody is saying that we want E here right now, if he had any value or could be moved asap, I'm pretty sure 99.9% of fans would do it. But with your logic, since we are stuck with E's contract, then we shouldn't move anybody else.

You're upset because we moved Alexei Marchenko, a 26 year old D-man who has 7th man upside. I dont see why this even matters. Did Toronto make a mistake as well then? Or what about the other 29 teams that did not put a claim in after TO waived him.

I'm sorry, but this appears to be displaced anger. You're upset about other moves, so you are projecting that anger onto a move that is meaningless. You want to argue that E should be moved, I agree. You want to argue that Helm should be moved, I agree. You want to argue that we should have held on to Marchenko? Sorry man, but no.

 

[kliq]

Well, I'll take a 24-year-old dirt cheap ****stick who can get better over a 33-year-old overpaid, declining ****stick any day of the week.

I'd prefer to move both.

 

[newfy]

These things can't be proved.
But here's what we know.

Nick Jensen was behind Alexei Marchenko and Xavier Ouellet and even Ryan Sproul.
Suddenly, last year, he surpassed them all.
Despite the fact that Marchenko and Ouellet actually know how to play defense (Marchenko's GA/60 was best on the Red Wings when he was waived - yet another stupid Holland decision).
Marchenko gave up 1.59 goals/60.
XO gave up 2.11 goals/60
Jensen gave up 2.98 goals/60
This - even though XO and Marchenko played more defensive zone faceoffs.
This, even though XO and Marchenko were younger than Jensen.

The only thing that Jensen can do is skate nice. Other than that, he's AHL caliber in every way.
Yet somehow, he surpassed 3 better defenseman and became an EVERYDAY player on this team.
Why do you think that is?

We could have traded Luke Glendening instead of Sheahan, right?
We chose to keep the American NCAA guy and trade the Canadian NCAA guy.

Athanasiou. Mantha.
Canadian kids criticized in the paper, left right and center.
Will be interesting to see if Bertuzzi and Rasmussen get as much negative attention from the coach.

Why is Luke Witkowski even on this team? Because he's an American NCAA kid who played for Blash at Western.

Howard over Mrazek - every ****ing game in November and December when Blashill and Howard drove the team over the cliff.

Going to be interesting to see how this plays out in coming years, because there aren't many USA-born NCAAers coming up the system.

Patrick Holway - American born NCAAer
David Pope -- NCAA but Canadian.
Chase Pearson - NCAA but Canadian
Jack Adams- American born NCAAer
Keith Petruzelli - American born NCAAere

I definitely think youre a little more extreme on this view point than I am, but I have always kinda wondered why the wings have so many NCAA kids. And not only that, but ones that played/were born in Michigan. Teams like Toronto have way more local players to have on their team and I would expect the wings proportion of Michigan players is much higher.

I really think Jensen is here for his skating, not the NCAA thing but it still seems odd that he just locked into his spot depsite mediocre play without Ouellet getting a chance. Even Glendening over Sheahan, Sheahan was bad here and I dont think its the Glendening played at Michigan thing that made them keep him, if he was Canadian I still think they trade the way they did. But at the end of the day that proportion of local NCAA players is really high for some reason. Could be preference of those guysor could just be completely random how it happened but it seems odd to me

 

[Redder Winger]

I definitely think youre a little more extreme on this view point than I am, but I have always kinda wondered why the wings have so many NCAA kids. And not only that, but ones that played/were born in Michigan. Teams like Toronto have way more local players to have on their team and I would expect the wings proportion of Michigan players is much higher.

I really think Jensen is here for his skating, not the NCAA thing but it still seems odd that he just locked into his spot depsite mediocre play without Ouellet getting a chance. Even Glendening over Sheahan, Sheahan was bad here and I dont think its the Glendening played at Michigan thing that made them keep him, if he was Canadian I still think they trade the way they did. But at the end of the day that proportion of local NCAA players is really high for some reason. Could be preference of those guysor could just be completely random how it happened but it seems odd to me

Coaches are like anyone else.
They have their favorites.
A lot of times it has to do with shared experience.
Babcock loves college guys too. He played college hockey - even if it was in Canada. He coached college hockey there too.

Blashill is US born. He's Michigan born. He went the NCAA route. He's been coaching the NCAA route.
He has shared experience with American born NCAA kids.

That's one thing I loved about Bowman. You coudn't figure that guy out in a zillion years.
With Blashill, his bias is pretty easy to spot.
When he started coaching the American team at the worlds... and then spent months calling Howard an "elite NHL goalie"...that confirmed my perspective about as well as anything could, short of him coming out and saying "I like American, college-developed players and I'll give them more rope than I would any other player."

 

[Frk It]

Every time we give up on a young guy with promise while ****sticks like Ericsson take a regular shift for a losing team that desperately needs to throw in the cards and start all over, I'm gonna beef.

How much promise is the point of contention here. Most of the guys we have given up on, I think was at a time where giving up seemed reasonable. I liked a lot of these kids coming up, but after awhile if they don't improve enough you just cut bait.

Sproul didn't improve his defense enough. XO hasn't improved his skating enough. Marchenko was just OK.

I think we usually give up on guys when it is pretty clear what they are in most cases.

 

[Pavels Dog]

I'm over everyone on our current D. Doubt more than 1 or 2 of these guys are still here 3 years from now. Maybe Dekeyser and Jensen are kept around as the "veterans" after Kronner/E/Daley/Green are gone. Jensen can be a cheap #6-7. Skating is really all you need to be decent in that role.

 

[ShelbyZ]

Marchenko was waived, went to Toronto, where he was also waived/cleared (ie. all other NHL teams passed on him).
His agent even went on record to say Marchenko wants to play in the NHL again.

You're upset because we moved Alexei Marchenko, a 26 year old D-man who has 7th man upside. I dont see why this even matters. Did Toronto make a mistake as well then? Or what about the other 29 teams that did not put a claim in after TO waived him.

Unlike guys like Pulkkinen, Jurco, Sproul, Mursak Jensen at one point, etc. etc., what happened on waivers isn't really a helpful indicator of what Marchenko's NHL value is/was.

From a technical standpoint, Marchenko never actually cleared standard waivers. He cleared "Unconditional" waivers, which in his case was the team basically saying, "Hey, this guy has agreed to walk away from his guaranteed NHL salary due to him on his current contract for whatever reason. Anybody willing to take on the rest of the contract he himself has willingly agreed to terminate?". Unless I'm missing something, I can't think of one instance where a player was ever claimed off of "unconditional" waivers. But I think that has more to do with circumstances other than "nobody wants this guy for free".

IIRC, at the time Marchenko was waived by the Red Wings, Toronto was sitting somewhere around mid pack in waiver claim order. So while we know that teams lower in the order passed on claiming him, (although we'll never really know) it's entirely possible a team higher than the Leafs in that order put in a claim as well.

That said, it's also entirely possible the Red Wings tried to trade him before waiving him and found no takers. However, it's also possible that him having a $1.45M AAV cap hit for an additional year, his (whether warranted or not) losing a regular spot on a Red Wings team known for having crap D, and the team being forced to potentially waive a Dman with Smith coming off IR, Sproul (whether warranted or not) sitting in the press box and Jensen (whether warranted or not) stealing a regular spot and requiring waivers to go back down all drove his value in a trade down. I'm still speculating here, but it's also possible that the Red Wings DIDN'T try to trade him, figured Sproul/Ouellet/Jensen might get claimed and gambled on Marchenko's not 100% bury-able cap hit keeping him from getting claimed so they could stow him in GR until they had room.

This is again speculation, but I think Marchenko's not being in the NHL has more to do with his paychecks than his play on the ice. It was reported at the time of his contract termination that the only KHL team he had played for, CSKA (supposedly the richest team in the league), was actively trying to lure back former players. I would imagine the 3 year deal he was presented by CSKA, which are reportedly free from taxes/Escrow/etc., is financially more fruitful than the $1.6M he was due on the NHL contract he walked away from. Especially when you consider taxes/Escrow/etc. On top of that who knows what the offers might have looked like if he hit the free agent market after potentially spending another year barely dressing for the Leafs, getting tossed around on waivers or even going to the AHL.

I think a couple better indicators of where Marchenko's NHL value sat are:

A. Marchenko went to a better, yet still somewhat "defensively challenged" Leafs team. A team coached by a former Red Wings coach that sang Marchenkos praises and gave him a regular spot over some more established dmen during his time in Detroit, even in the playoffs. Despite this, Marchenko dressed for 11 of a possible 32 regular season games, and 0 of a possible 6 in the playoffs for the Leafs. He never even held a regular spot. He sat as a healthy scratch for 9 straight games after being claimed. Then when Carrick went down for 11 games, Marchenko dressed for 7 straight (with his minutes decreasing toward the end) before they scratched him in favor of dressing Martin Marincin for two. They went back to Marchenko for the last two games Carrick missed, where he averaged 11 minutes. Other than two additional 11 minute games to fill in during a 2 game suspension to Roman Polak, Marchenko sat the rest of the regular season in the press box. In the playoffs, when Zaitsev missed games 1 and 2, and Polak missed 3, 4, 5 and 6, Babcock dressed Marincin for all 6.
B. Martin Marincin, the guy that played over Marchenko in the playoffs passed through waivers at the beginning of the current season, and outside of two weeks where he only dressed for 2 NHL games, he's been in the AHL the whole year.

 

[kliq]

Unlike guys like Pulkkinen, Jurco, Sproul, Mursak Jensen at one point, etc. etc., what happened on waivers isn't really a helpful indicator of what Marchenko's NHL value is/was.

From a technical standpoint, Marchenko never actually cleared standard waivers. He cleared "Unconditional" waivers, which in his case was the team basically saying, "Hey, this guy has agreed to walk away from his guaranteed NHL salary due to him on his current contract for whatever reason. Anybody willing to take on the rest of the contract he himself has willingly agreed to terminate?". Unless I'm missing something, I can't think of one instance where a player was ever claimed off of "unconditional" waivers. But I think that has more to do with circumstances other than "nobody wants this guy for free".

IIRC, at the time Marchenko was waived by the Red Wings, Toronto was sitting somewhere around mid pack in waiver claim order. So while we know that teams lower in the order passed on claiming him, (although we'll never really know) it's entirely possible a team higher than the Leafs in that order put in a claim as well.

That said, it's also entirely possible the Red Wings tried to trade him before waiving him and found no takers. However, it's also possible that him having a $1.45M AAV cap hit for an additional year, his (whether warranted or not) losing a regular spot on a Red Wings team known for having crap D, and the team being forced to potentially waive a Dman with Smith coming off IR, Sproul (whether warranted or not) sitting in the press box and Jensen (whether warranted or not) stealing a regular spot and requiring waivers to go back down all drove his value in a trade down. I'm still speculating here, but it's also possible that the Red Wings DIDN'T try to trade him, figured Sproul/Ouellet/Jensen might get claimed and gambled on Marchenko's not 100% bury-able cap hit keeping him from getting claimed so they could stow him in GR until they had room.

This is again speculation, but I think Marchenko's not being in the NHL has more to do with his paychecks than his play on the ice. It was reported at the time of his contract termination that the only KHL team he had played for, CSKA (supposedly the richest team in the league), was actively trying to lure back former players. I would imagine the 3 year deal he was presented by CSKA, which are reportedly free from taxes/Escrow/etc., is financially more fruitful than the $1.6M he was due on the NHL contract he walked away from. Especially when you consider taxes/Escrow/etc. On top of that who knows what the offers might have looked like if he hit the free agent market after potentially spending another year barely dressing for the Leafs, getting tossed around on waivers or even going to the AHL.

I think a couple better indicators of where Marchenko's NHL value sat are:

A. Marchenko went to a better, yet still somewhat "defensively challenged" Leafs team. A team coached by a former Red Wings coach that sang Marchenkos praises and gave him a regular spot over some more established dmen during his time in Detroit, even in the playoffs. Despite this, Marchenko dressed for 11 of a possible 32 regular season games, and 0 of a possible 6 in the playoffs for the Leafs. He never even held a regular spot. He sat as a healthy scratch for 9 straight games after being claimed. Then when Carrick went down for 11 games, Marchenko dressed for 7 straight (with his minutes decreasing toward the end) before they scratched him in favor of dressing Martin Marincin for two. They went back to Marchenko for the last two games Carrick missed, where he averaged 11 minutes. Other than two additional 11 minute games to fill in during a 2 game suspension to Roman Polak, Marchenko sat the rest of the regular season in the press box. In the playoffs, when Zaitsev missed games 1 and 2, and Polak missed 3, 4, 5 and 6, Babcock dressed Marincin for all 6.
B. Martin Marincin, the guy that played over Marchenko in the playoffs passed through waivers at the beginning of the current season, and outside of two weeks where he only dressed for 2 NHL games, he's been in the AHL the whole year.

I didn’t realize that (ie. the waivers), thanks for clarifying. I think overall you hit the nail on her head.