NHL's Motive

Discussion in 'The Business of Hockey' started by pei fan, Jun 9, 2005.

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  1. pei fan

    pei fan Registered User

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    Just prior to cancelling the season the NHL took a huge advantage in negotiations
    with the NHLPA dropping their resistance to a salary cap,thus their "matter of
    principle" and "philosophical differences".Everyone expected NHL to play hardball
    but actually they seem to have become more accomadating and imo a major
    breakthrough came when Bettman came out with a statement that they
    wouldn't be looking at replacement players and wanted to negotiate with the
    NHLPA.Now it looks like they might be the ones giving the most ground to the
    NHLPA.

    My question is did the NHL not really want to get a deal done for a shortened season and actually preferred to lose a whole season as opposed to play
    a 25-30 game season.Does the timing of when the salaries come in factor into
    it?(meaning although it would be a shortened season it would still start the
    inflation process by one year). What about the Crosby factor? Shortly after
    Bettman started talking softer he floated the idea of every team getting
    a shot at Crosby.(something he couldn't have done if there was a shortened
    season).I never really believed the "Crosby to New York" conspiracy
    theory but I'm starting to wonder. Also the Memorial Cup saw more NHL
    brass then ever including Bettman at a Rimouski game and soon after that
    the NHL is doing some serious testing about rule changes to open up the
    game more to show off the more skilled players.Anyway it looks like the NHL
    is serious about wanting to play hockey this year and last year it looked like
    they weren't in a rush. Are there any other reasons in this sudden shift in
    posture?
     
  2. BobMckenzie

    BobMckenzie Registered User

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    Until the deal is done and on the table for everyone to see, hard to make firm evaluations, but on your point that the NHL is giving in to the NHLPA, I couldn't see it any differently.

    The NHLPA said no cap. There's going to be a cap.
    The NHLPA said no linkage. There's going to be linkage.
    On top of the cap and linkage, there's going to be a payroll tax.
    History will be the true judge of who wins and loses, but at face value...cap, linkage and tax=game, set and match, IMO.
     
  3. DaveBrown21

    DaveBrown21 Registered User

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    Bob-

    Do the reported cap numbers reflect a 24% rollback of player salaries?
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2005
  4. ryz

    ryz Registered User

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    As expected, Bob is bang on. The NHL may throw the PA a bone or two in concerns to free agency and qualifying offers and all but in terms of the real meat of the CBA the NHL is gonna beat the NHLPA down 7 ways to Sunday.
     
  5. sveiglar

    sveiglar Registered User

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    Agreed. Both the NHL and NHLPA walked into this fight. When the PA agreed to the cap, they were on the mat with the NHL's foot across their throat. Just because the NHL isn't stepping down and is letting them get a breath doesn't change the fact that they are on the mat looking up.
     
  6. pei fan

    pei fan Registered User

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    I should have qualified that statement and I made it based on the globe article
    but I've since read some of your comments and so maybe not as many
    concessions to NHLPA.But as far as cap and linkage goes I'm going on the
    presumption that those were forgone conclusions once the NHLPA caved in on principle(at least the cap) and that the NHL is conceding on some of the smaller issues.

    At least do you not think that there is a change in the NHL's tone and towards
    more urgency or do you think it's just a matter that the NHLPA is finally willing
    to talk?
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2005
  7. BobMckenzie

    BobMckenzie Registered User

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    Yes. 24 per cent rollback is part of the package.
     
  8. Ludwig Fell Down

    Ludwig Fell Down Registered User

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    I maintained that the league did not want to get a deal done in February, as most teams would have lost money. Teams would have been scrambling to assemble rosters and hire employees for marketing, ticket sales, consessions, etc. I'm not sure how great attendance would be, and with 13-15 home dates, I suspect teams would lose money unless they went far in the playoffs. At that point, I think the players had a much greater incentive than the owners.

    Of course, this view doesn't consider the long term and how much damage has been done to the game in terms of fan interest, tv revenue, etc.
     
  9. RangerBoy

    RangerBoy TRUST THE PROCESS

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    NHL sides close in on deal

    Negotiators for the NHL and the NHL Players' Association have made so much progress on defining revenues and salary-cap issues that they've moved on to other important aspects of the bargaining agreement.

    Sources also contend that the deal is actually being written and lawyered as the process goes on, so that when the two sides eventually do come to an agreement — likely this month — they will be able to bring the completed document to their constituents for ratification votes as soon as possible.


    http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Co...64&t=TS_Home&DPL=IvsNDS/7ChAX&tacodalogin=yes
     
  10. WC Handy*

    WC Handy* Guest

    Thanks for the link RangerBoy... nice to see a Toronto writer who actually realizes the Leafs are in a world of hurt when the game returns.

    On a side note... that article mentions that they're discussion Olympic participation in the meetings. I'm glad that' something that they're discussing because they need to make up their damn minds on that subject.
     
  11. pei fan

    pei fan Registered User

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    Well I think both sides have finally seen the incentive to negotiate rather
    than continue their posturing.One of the things that made me positive about these latest talks when they began a number of weeks ago is that they were low
    key and weren't followed by a press conference every single day as was the
    case before.All this doesn't mean a deal is done yet but it sure as heck looks
    like things are moving in the right direction.
     
  12. arnie

    arnie Registered User

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    The answer is absolutely, positively no. The NHL breaks even on the season and makes its money on the playoffs. A shortened season, with means little salary layout, followed by a playoff, wher players don't get paid, is the ideal situation for the NHL. That's why they were willing to go as high as $42 million for a cap then, when they won't go near that high now.
     
  13. Mess

    Mess Global Moderator

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    Interesting

    1) Until the deal is done and on the table for everyone to see, hard to make firm evaluations

    2) There's going to be a cap, There's going to be linkage, There's going to be a payroll tax.


    :dunno: :D
     
  14. Montrealer

    Montrealer What, me worry?

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    He said at face value.
     
  15. Ludwig Fell Down

    Ludwig Fell Down Registered User

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    I agree that's the case in general, but would question whether they would have broken even last year in the regular season, with the limited number of home dates and (likely) poor attendance in a number of cities. The salary layout is obviously less because of the short season, but the percentage of revenues would have been even poorer, IMO.

    Out of 30 teams, 14 would have missed the playoffs, and another 8 eliminated after 1 round, with 2-3 extra home dates. The rest would have clearly profited, but I suspect that a majority would not.
     
  16. BobMckenzie

    BobMckenzie Registered User

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    Oh, I get it...you're making a funny. :biglaugh:

    At the risk of overstating the obvious, my point was we have to be careful about not evaluating too many of the details because we don't know the details, but if you're suggesting I've contradicted that by saying there is going to be a cap, there is going to be linkage and there is going to be a tax...well, that's a risk I'm prepared to take. You may have missed the distinction between "evaluating" the deal and talking about the broad concepts that we know to be a part of it. Big difference, IMO, perhaps you missed it.

    :D
     
  17. WC Handy*

    WC Handy* Guest

    Oh snap!
     
  18. sveiglar

    sveiglar Registered User

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    TM got pwned.
     
  19. Mess

    Mess Global Moderator

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    "my point was we have to be careful about not evaluating too many of the details because we don't know the details"

    Exactly why I posted that original post because when I read " There's going to be" it sounded like you're no longer fairly certain but rather completely convinced..

    Perhaps "I believe there's going to be" or "Odds are that we will have " may have been a safer position .. not that I am saying based on the reports you're necessarily wrong as to the outcome ..

    Remember yesterdays report also was very confusing in the fact that it reapeatedly said Team by team revenues and not league Revenues and even your name sake commented on the same thing ..

    McKenzie: Latest cap story is confusing : http://www.tsn.ca/columnists/bob_mckenzie.asp

    Balancing out reports released from a member of the Negotiating team on the NHLPA side on USA today yesterday said ;

    So we are all walking on egg shells was just of my post and I wouldn't be certain of anything yet .. I have seen many Union negotiations get close and then completely blow up ..
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2005
  20. BobMckenzie

    BobMckenzie Registered User

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  21. King_Brown

    King_Brown Guest

    Can you please explain to me what was meant by the April 4th NHLPA linkage and the NHL's linkage? It been confusing reading about it, because the media is making the NHLPA linkage to be different then the NHL's linkage. Is linkage not linkage? And did the NHL not offer a floating cap also with linkage?

    Thanks
     
  22. Egil

    Egil Registered User

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    I suspect the NHLPA linkage was simply linking the cap figures to revenue, but having no guarantee that player costs would be 54% (or whatever). So say you agree that the top cap should be 64% of player costs, and the floor 44%. But if everyone spends 64%, the PA's linkage would do nothing to prevent that, whereas the NHL linkage probably will ensure that situation wont occur.
     
  23. blitzkriegs

    blitzkriegs Registered User

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    If your gonna nit-pick people to death over how one presents the info, then maybe you might want to defer on the side of caution of a well respected journalist rather than a run-of-the mill poster arounf here. Is Bob immune from criticism? No. But mindless nit-picking may DISUADE him from offering his insight around here. For that, please have the undo respect of the HF community to give a little extra thought when nit-picking certain people. It's called respect and he deserves it. Remember, Bob DOES NOT have to be here, rather he CHOOSES to be here VOLUNTARILY.

    Further, he provided 3 main topics of what the new CBA will entail, but also said that they will part of the new CBA., which is never final until done. I think there is enough info around the press (contradictory or not) that those 3 elements are part of the new CBA. What lies beneath them (the sub issues) may alter the weight and veracity of each element - something he DID not comment on b/c no one seems to know it yet.

    Unfortunately, as Bob pointed out, when the PA took certain stances against certain things and eventually caved into them that's what is going on right now. Just b/c the PA has now accepted a cap. linkage, tax (all in general) does not mean that they are working the sub elements of each to the best of their ability. It's just that those are THE main topics to be. If BG had a Plan B besides nothing, then maybe we would know what is going on under those main topics. But since he never did, well then apparently his Plan B has turned into the owners Plan A just with the PA trying to claw away underneath it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2005
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