NHLPA responds to NHL claims of massive losses

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ArtG

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Feb 9, 2004
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John Flyers Fan said:
Yes look what happens when you have smart management, a team like Vancouver can make huge profits each year, and that with winning just one playoff series over the last 3 seasons.

Smart managements can make this system work.
It's not all about smart management. It's the fact that our team is on the upswing. What happens in a few years when we have to rebuild? we'll be losing money again.. just like before..
 

Bruwinz37

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Feb 27, 2002
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This league profiting nearly 100 million a year?

HA! What knucklehead would believe this to be possible?

Is this contingent on the TV deal fairy coming and dropping a plush tv contract under Bettman's pillow?
 

Lanny MacDonald*

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scaredsensfan said:
I still dont understand why people support the owners, they are doing this to get ROI's of a good 20% or more a year... and they say its a bad investment. :banghead: :mad:

Here's a suggestion for you. Take your $250 million that you have sitting around the house, by a team and build an arena. When you do that, then you can spout off about the owners demanding a return on their investment (and I have never seen a team expect a 20% ROI). Until then, sit back and thank your god every day that some sucker (Melnyk) came in and saved the Senators from going under and hockey disappearing from Ottawa for a second time in the city's history.

BTW... what do the players have invested in the game? Why should the players make the return on their investment like they do? Players come and go, the game remains. Get that through your head. When Chris Pronger retires the St. Louis Blues will go on, just like the Colorado Avalanche did when Patrick Roy retired or when the premiere self-absorbed SOB in the league decided to stay home in Sweden and nurse his boo-boos. No player is bigger than the game itself, contrary to what 700 some primadonnas are trying to make you believe.
 

mackdogs*

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The Iconoclast said:
BTW... what do the players have invested in the game? Why should the players make the return on their investment like they do? Players come and go, the game remains. Get that through your head. When Chris Pronger retires the St. Louis Blues will go on, just like the Colorado Avalanche did when Patrick Roy retired or when the premiere self-absorbed SOB in the league decided to stay home in Sweden and nurse his boo-boos. No player is bigger than the game itself, contrary to what 700 some primadonnas are trying to make you believe.
I've never been able to understand this one either, Iconoclast. Why either:
a) players should continue to rake in obscene amounts of money, many making more in 1 year than an average person makes in their lifetime or
b) why someone who spent millions of dollars on an investment shouldn't want or demand return on it. Would you buy a stock you knew was going to lose value? Didn't think so. So why would anyone in their right mind continue owning a team on the brink (Ott, Edm, Pit, etc). or why would anyone want to buy these franchises or start a new one.

Both sides are greedy, but the owners have every right to be when the average salary is over $1 million!
 

MarkZackKarl

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Jun 29, 2002
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BTW... what do the players have invested in the game? Why should the players make the return on their investment like they do? Players come and go, the game remains. Get that through your head. When Chris Pronger retires the St. Louis Blues will go on, just like the Colorado Avalanche did when Patrick Roy retired or when the premiere self-absorbed SOB in the league decided to stay home in Sweden and nurse his boo-boos. No player is bigger than the game itself, contrary to what 700 some primadonnas are trying to make you believe.

The players are the product. The NHL is nothing without the players. They generate 95% or more of the revenue . Everything thel eague does is a spin off of their players. The product.

They are very important. They should be able to get what the market is willign to bear, just like the owners should be able to price their tickets at the market will bear as well.

Basically, there are 2 ways to structure a sports league

1. Have lower UFA ages and an artificial barrier on payrolls.
2. Have a restrictive system with no real barriers on payrolls.

I prefer number 2 because it focuses on the player development and drafting abilities of teams and organizations. Number 2 is suited for baseball and Hockey. Number 1 is suited for Basketball and Football. Why? The investment in hockey and baseball is far greater than the NBA and NFL. Also, those sports are more team oriented, in a way.

This is good for fans. Continuity of rosters and the ability to win a championship and dominate is what has led me to follow the NHL so closely. Its interesting that way. Far better than the detrimental strategy that Gary has planned.

In the end they'll meet somewhere in the middle, but I still can't fathom why any fans want an NFL type system.

The two sports arent even comparable. Unfortunately, weasel Gary seems to think they are. Shame.
 

Tawnos

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Sep 10, 2004
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Thunderstruck said:
Hey Bobby boy, do you think the 2% salary inflation last year had something to do with smart organizations getting ready for the cap?

That's moronic... try comparing the 2% inflation to an average of 12% over the last ten years. Why? Because owners were restraining themselves. The last CBA had a couple of automatic salary inflators, such as player-only arbitration and 100+% qualifying offers. Change those and combine it with a salary drag and you have a similar inflation per year and you do the leagues projected revenue growth.

Anyone who thinks that the furthest the NHLPA was willing to go was the last offer is blind. You never come in with everything you're willing to give. I guarantee that the PA is willing to go for team-induced arbitration and less than 100% qualifying offers. They're probably willing to go for a much stiffer tax too.

12.1% is what the inflation was per year over the last 10 years. The tax alone would create drag on that... and you'd have less already. The NHL is going on numbers as if the PA didn't change a damn thing.
 

copperandblue

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scaredsensfan said:
The players are the product. The NHL is nothing without the players. They generate 95% or more of the revenue . Everything thel eague does is a spin off of their players. The product.

No...

The GAME is the product, the players are simply the mode they use to deliver it.

Sort of like million dollar pizza delivery drivers......
 

gerbilanium

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Oct 17, 2003
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Even if someone does accept the league makes $100 million per year figure. Divide that by 30 teams and that's 3 million per year. Woo hoooo what a great business. Teams make a similar profit to Greg devries.
 

MarkZackKarl

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Yes. The players are the product. The players playing hockey are the product. If the players didnt matter, than the league could ice any player they wanted and brand it as NHL hockey.

The players that 'produce' the game, they matter. People go to see the games because of the players playing, at least most of the time. They dont go just cause its hockey. They go because the BEST PLAYERS in the WORLD are there.

Thats the point.
 

copperandblue

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scaredsensfan said:
Yes. The players are the product. The players playing hockey are the product. If the players didnt matter, than the league could ice any player they wanted and brand it as NHL hockey.

The players that 'produce' the game, they matter. People go to see the games because of the players playing, at least most of the time. They dont go just cause its hockey. They go because the BEST PLAYERS in the WORLD are there.

Thats the point.

So by that reasoning, why don't you limit it even further and say the top 10 players are the product?

The top 1 player?

Fact is players come and go and the one constant is the game....the product....that is produced by the team .... and delivered by the players.....
 

waffledave

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Aug 22, 2004
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Egil said:
4 - Automatic CBA exit clause/ player salary rollback

Either the CBA can be cancelled by the owners or a salary rollback to 56% of revenue if player salaries exceed 65% of revenue at any time during this CBA

Now, until the players make a serious offer based on not having guaranteed linkage (and I understand why they are hesitant for true linkage), we ain't going nowhere. And so far, the PA has had good ideas in its proposals, but nothing that is going to entice the owners to negotiate off of the linkage hill. Something along the lines above may get the owners off that hill and negotiating, but not the minor change offer the PA presented last week.

I love this idea. If the players are so confident that the league will be making money, let them put their money where their mouth is.
 

SENSible1*

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Tawnos said:
That's moronic... try comparing the 2% inflation to an average of 12% over the last ten years. Why? Because owners were restraining themselves.
Why were the owners restraining themsleves?

Do you think it might have had something to do with the coming lockout and cap?

The last CBA had a couple of automatic salary inflators, such as player-only arbitration and 100+% qualifying offers. Change those and combine it with a salary drag and you have a similar inflation per year and you do the leagues projected revenue growth.

Sorry to point out the obvious, but if the PA's true intention was to set the % of revenue at the rollback level and set up a system where salaries and revenue would rise equally, then they should just accept a link between both at that level.

You do know what they call a link between salaries and revenue, right?

It's that little thingy Mr. Bettman keeps talking about called cost certainty.

The PA's intention was obvious to anyone with half a brain.

Anyone who thinks that the furthest the NHLPA was willing to go was the last offer is blind.

Agreed, they'll end up going much further than that, just not willingly.
 

Tawnos

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Thunderstruck said:
Why were the owners restraining themsleves?

Do you think it might have had something to do with the coming lockout and cap?

Absolutely, but my point was that it's perfectly possible for them to restrain themselves... whether there's a coming lockout or not. That's where Goodenow stands on that and I agree with him.


Sorry to point out the obvious, but if the PA's true intention was to set the % of revenue at the rollback level and set up a system where salaries and revenue would rise equally, then they should just accept a link between both at that level.

You do know what they call a link between salaries and revenue, right?

It's that little thingy Mr. Bettman keeps talking about called cost certainty.

The PA's intention was obvious to anyone with half a brain.

Yeah... too bad it's becoming a semantics issue. The players place is that that their portion of the pie in a linked system looks smaller and smaller as revenues go higher and higher. It's the whole mental block of "2/3 seems much more than 66%" deal.

The players should say "look... we'll rollback to 53% or whatever of revenue right now... implement a strict tax and then say if salaries ever escalate to <insert negotiated percentage here> then we will roll back to 53% again and renegotiate the CBA accordingly."

Agreed, they'll end up going much further than that, just not willingly.

Very little is what you'd ever call "willing" in a CBA negotiation unless one side outright wins.
 

John Flyers Fan

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copperandblue said:
No...

The GAME is the product, the players are simply the mode they use to deliver it.

Sort of like million dollar pizza delivery drivers......

Hmmmm then was are NHL tickets a helluva lot more expensive than tickets to see the AHL, CHL, college hockey, hish school hockey etc. etc. etc.
 
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