NHL teams boycotting Olympics?

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Phanuthier*

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psycho_dad said:
I would understand that they cant play.
And these guys are injured.

And since when was participation in these events manditory? It's almost like we're talking about conscription here. :help:
 

Phanuthier*

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Padawan said:
I blame the teams for not letting them heal while the NHL is in progress and making them miss the national games.
Right :shakehead

Tell me one business model by which an employer will give an employee time off, costing their business severly, just so they can pursue their own personal interests?

You'd be fired if you did.
 

helicecopter

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Phanuthier said:
Just wondering, when Malakov hurt his knee with the Canadians, but went skiing anyways, was that fully within his right?
First, playing ice hockey in the Olympics is a potential part of a hockey player career, skiing is not.

Second, i think professional athletes' contracts has caveats that rule this issue..if a player gets injured while skiing he si probably going to miss some of his salary, according to his contract. If the contract says nothing about that, or if a player want to take the risk, he can ski within his right i guess.

Bottom line. If Malakov is injured and can't play for the Canadiens, he won't be able to go to ski either. If Malakov is fit enough to play for the Canadians, he is fit enough to play for his country at the Olympics.
 

Sampe

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Phanuthier said:
Right :shakehead

Tell me one business model by which an employer will give an employee time off, costing their business severly, just so they can pursue their own personal interests?

You'd be fired if you did.

Well, here's one:

A business model where the employer's union has signed an official contract to allow it. You know, like the NHL did.
 

SwisshockeyAcademy

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Sampe said:
Well, here's one:

A business model where the employer's union has signed an official contract to allow it. You know, like the NHL did.
That seems to escape Phanuthier. I am 100 % against owner pressure but I have not seen any proof of it. It is also not possible to force people to play who have no interest in being there. I love the NHL but I am not so shortsighted as to believe that the Stanley Cup is the sports pinnacle. It is an international game that is moved forward by NHL participation in the Olympics and the NHL Owners and players union realizing it is for the greater good to put on a good show here. Most owners view players as pieces of meat anyway so I do not give a damn if a player gets hurt playing in the Olympics and it causes them trouble. If a player wants to play he should feel good about his participation and not worry about pressure from his club team. If Bettman finds out that the Owners are putting undue pressure on than they should be hit heavily in their wallets. I still do not believe that Kipper is ready to go through a wall to play for Finland much to the shagrin of some posters. If he wanted to be there he would. If Lehtonen really wanted to be there he would. They could not be stopped and are far too good to relent to pressure. They will still get big contracts from somebody somewhere. Its not like these are borderline goalies worrying about job security.
 

Murky

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The fans of Team Finland probably brought the hostility upon themselves by whining about Kiprusoff being told not to play. (And yeah, everyone without blinders on can see what is going on no matter what some kids post on the internet.)

NHL has signed a contract to allow the players to play. Anything involving "but they pay" has zero validity as an argument. The contract is every bit as binding as the contract of employment that the players have signed.

Should key elements of team Canada be forced out - and just don't count the players on your favourite teams - the tone would be quite different. The value of Kiprusoff alone to a thin roster like the Finns would be able to send to the tournament under optimal conditions is huge. I don't know what would be comparable for our American friends. Maybe have some European sponsor force half their basketball team to not participate in the Summer O's. I bet that would piss them off even if they still would be guaranteed winners.

I am not at all surprised to find the Finns appalled by some GM's as well as the management of their own National team. I don't think the players can be blamed as much. I know I don't place much blame on them. What can they do, really? Become the most well known trouble makers since Brett Hull with a single statement? Laying it all in the open by saying that contrary to the signed contract by the NHL their team told them to decline and blame it on injuries? I think not.

But it's only Finland, who cares right? And if the Finns do - so f***ing what? Finland is the other country in the World besides Canada that actually has hockey as a religion but screw them.

It's great to see the hockey fans pull together. Selfish ignorant pricks that we are. Go Flames and go Thrashers and especially Go the handful of Flames fans. You make us proud.
 

SwisshockeyAcademy

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Murky said:
The fans of Team Finland probably brought the hostility upon themselves by whining about Kiprusoff being told not to play. (And yeah, everyone without blinders on can see what is going on no matter what some kids post on the internet.)

NHL has signed a contract to allow the players to play. Anything involving "but they pay" has zero validity as an argument. The contract is every bit as binding as the contract of employment that the players have signed.

Should key elements of team Canada be forced out - and just don't count the players on your favourite teams - the tone would be quite different. The value of Kiprusoff alone to a thin roster like the Finns would be able to send to the tournament under optimal conditions is huge. I don't know what would be comparable for our American friends. Maybe have some European sponsor force half their basketball team to not participate in the Summer O's. I bet that would piss them off even if they still would be guaranteed winners.

I am not at all surprised to find the Finns appalled by some GM's as well as the management of their own National team. I don't think the players can be blamed as much. I know I don't place much blame on them. What can they do, really? Become the most well known trouble makers since Brett Hull with a single statement? Laying it all in the open by saying that contrary to the signed contract by the NHL their team told them to decline and blame it on injuries? I think not.

But it's only Finland, who cares right? And if the Finns do - so f***ing what? Finland is the other country in the World besides Canada that actually has hockey as a religion but screw them.

It's great to see the hockey fans pull together. Selfish ignorant pricks that we are. Go Flames and go Thrashers and especially Go the handful of Flames fans. You make us proud.
So are you saying Lehtonen and Kipper have no injury issues? Lehtonen of the twice pulled groin and poor conditioning. Kipper of the poor hip that he is taking who knows what to keep the inflamation down. i fully agree about the poor attitudes of some NHL fans , it pisses me off that they can be so shortsighted. Tell me this though. Are Atlanta standing in Kovalchuk's way? Havelid? Hossa? Bondra?( even with his injury issues.) What about Calgary? Are they holding Leopold back? I will not mention the Canadians Calgary have because this is a thread about screwing Finns and only Finns after all.
 

SwisshockeyAcademy

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helicecopter said:
BTW, you can add Kapanen to your Finnish conspiracy theory i guess..
May as well. Never mind he has spent as much time injured as he has playing so perhaps he may not be 100%. So Phili will say no to Kapanen and yes to Forsberg, Handzus and Knuble, Esche and Nittymaki. Again Bobby Clarke just wants to screw some Finns - not all because Nittymaki can play but certainly lets screw Kapanen.
 

Sammy*

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SwisshockeyAcademy said:
So are you saying Lehtonen and Kipper have no injury issues? Lehtonen of the twice pulled groin and poor conditioning. Kipper of the poor hip that he is taking who knows what to keep the inflamation down. i fully agree about the poor attitudes of some NHL fans , it pisses me off that they can be so shortsighted. Tell me this though. Are Atlanta standing in Kovalchuk's way? Havelid? Hossa? Bondra?( even with his injury issues.) What about Calgary? Are they holding Leopold back? I will not mention the Canadians Calgary have because this is a thread about screwing Finns and only Finns after all.
Yeah, Kippers injury is so profound that he's played more games than any goalie in the NHL.
Kipper/Sutter/Flames = no class
Niedermeyer/Burke/Ducks = class
 

SwisshockeyAcademy

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Sammy said:
Yeah, Kippers injury is so profound that he's played more games than any goalie in the NHL.
Kipper/Sutter/Flames = no class
Niedermeyer/Burke/Ducks = class
I am missing the Ducks point you are making. If Kipper wanted to/was able to play in the Olympics he could. He has declined to play for the National team before so it does not exactly mean everything to him.
 

Sammy*

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SwisshockeyAcademy said:
I am missing the Ducks point you are making. If Kipper wanted to/was able to play in the Olympics he could. He has declined to play for the National team before so it does not exactly mean everything to him.
Niedermeyer is hurt & needs athoscopic surgery. However , he really doesnt want to right now because he really wants to play in the Olys. Burke is supportive of whatever Niedermeyer ultimately decides.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=152562&hubname=nhl
 

psycho_dad*

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Murky said:
The fans of Team Finland probably brought the hostility upon themselves by whining about Kiprusoff being told not to play. (And yeah, everyone without blinders on can see what is going on no matter what some kids post on the internet.)

NHL has signed a contract to allow the players to play. Anything involving "but they pay" has zero validity as an argument. The contract is every bit as binding as the contract of employment that the players have signed.

Should key elements of team Canada be forced out - and just don't count the players on your favourite teams - the tone would be quite different. The value of Kiprusoff alone to a thin roster like the Finns would be able to send to the tournament under optimal conditions is huge. I don't know what would be comparable for our American friends. Maybe have some European sponsor force half their basketball team to not participate in the Summer O's. I bet that would piss them off even if they still would be guaranteed winners.

I am not at all surprised to find the Finns appalled by some GM's as well as the management of their own National team. I don't think the players can be blamed as much. I know I don't place much blame on them. What can they do, really? Become the most well known trouble makers since Brett Hull with a single statement? Laying it all in the open by saying that contrary to the signed contract by the NHL their team told them to decline and blame it on injuries? I think not.

But it's only Finland, who cares right? And if the Finns do - so f***ing what? Finland is the other country in the World besides Canada that actually has hockey as a religion but screw them.

It's great to see the hockey fans pull together. Selfish ignorant pricks that we are. Go Flames and go Thrashers and especially Go the handful of Flames fans. You make us proud.


:clap:

I agree with every word.
 

SwisshockeyAcademy

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Sammy said:
Niedermeyer is hurt & needs athoscopic surgery. However , he really doesnt want to right now because he really wants to play in the Olys. Burke is supportive of whatever Niedermeyer ultimately decides.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=152562&hubname=nhl
Ok. Good of the Ducks and good for Niedermayer. The flames situation seems to have some blame for all. A conspiracy to kill Finland's chances just does not fly with me.
 

helicecopter

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SwisshockeyAcademy said:
Ok. Good of the Ducks and good for Niedermayer. The flames situation seems to have some blame for all. A conspiracy to kill Finland's chances just does not fly with me.
And who is saying it's a conspiracy to kill Finland's chances? It's just about the eventuality of NHL teams discouraging some suffering players from joining their national team; not to kill Finland's chances, but for the NHL team's interests.. (the fact then the deprived national teams is Finalnd and not Canada or USA maybe doesn't hurt though?)
 

Murky

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SwisshockeyAcademy said:
So are you saying Lehtonen and Kipper have no injury issues? Lehtonen of the twice pulled groin and poor conditioning. Kipper of the poor hip that he is taking who knows what to keep the inflamation down. i fully agree about the poor attitudes of some NHL fans , it pisses me off that they can be so shortsighted. Tell me this though. Are Atlanta standing in Kovalchuk's way? Havelid? Hossa? Bondra?( even with his injury issues.) What about Calgary? Are they holding Leopold back? I will not mention the Canadians Calgary have because this is a thread about screwing Finns and only Finns after all.
No, I think they do have injuries. Are you in turn telling me that all players in the Olys will be 100% healthy? Turn on the TV and see that Kiprusoff is quite able to play. For further proof see the number of his starts this season so far and how many of those have been since he was declared "injured" and how many more are there to come before and after Olys. It's just a blatant excuse and such a clear case. He is playing more than any other goalie in the league for crying out loud. So sure I do think he has injury and yeah - I don't believe for one second that he wouldn't play in the O's if the Flames had not told him not to play.

Kipper is the Flames most important player as far as the standings go. I think Iggy is likely more important in the big picture including marketing etc - but strictly on the standings I believe Kiprusoff may be the MVP in the whole of the NHL in my opinion.

And no I don't think it is a conspiracy either. I don't think the Flames or Thrashers management really give a damn about Finland and neither am I expecting them to. What I think is going on is more of a situation where they have thought that telling the players to skip Team Finland has no real downsides apart from probably pissing the players off a bit.

Because it is Team Finland. Finland is on the other side of the Globe and the few thousands of Finnish fans that actually contribute to the bottomline of NHL franchises by buying fan gear and subscribing to the ppv etc are insignificant. Instead of conspiracy I just think that a couple of GM's figured "it's only Team Finland". What they forgot is it's also a sport. Finland was pretty great in the World Cup and I think this all has been a damn shame.

What really pisses me off about this too are some of the fans that turn a blind eye to this and woohoo about Kiprusoff being so injured that he has played more than any goaltender in the league and continues to do so. Canada is the home and birthplace of the sport, but Finland is the only - and let me repeat this for the effect - the only other country on this planet that has the passion about hockey comparable to Canada. Everywhere else hockey is second tier sport usually to soccer. They had a great run at the World Cup and played some great hockey there. And these are the guys getting screwed over and not only that some Flames fans are cheering for them getting screwed over.

That is not ******* on. That is the bottomline that I am saying. As fans of the sport we should be backing the Finns up instead of this blatant making of excuses. Sure, I can see where the Flames fans are coming. They do have a chance to go for the Cup later on. But really I think everyone should take a step back and think about what is hockey? It's a minor sport and we the fans of hockey are a pretty rare breed. This haa haa haa from other fans is not on. Any player could be injured in the tournament or in the next scheduled game in the NHL. Such things happen. From the seven nations with a more or less realistic chance of winning the Olympics Kiprusoff is the single player with the most effect on the chances of his team to be able to compete. Finns seem to have great heart and really come out hard and overachieve in these tournaments time after time but really - they have about one line of forwards, some great grinders, decent defensive unit and a great goalkeeper. Uups. Scratch that.
 
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SwisshockeyAcademy

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Murky said:
No, I think they do have injuries. Are you in turn telling me that all players in the Olys will be 100% healthy? Turn on the TV and see that Kiprusoff is quite able to play. For further proof see the number of his starts this season so far and how many of those have been since he was declared "injured" and how many more are there to come before and after Olys. It's just a blatant excuse and such a clear case. He is playing more than any other goalie in the league for crying out loud. So sure I do think he has injury and yeah - I don't believe for one second that he wouldn't play in the O's if the Flames had not told him not to play.

Kipper is the Flames most important player as far as the standings go. I think Iggy is likely more important in the big picture including marketing etc - but strictly on the standings I believe Kiprusoff may be the MVP in the whole of the NHL in my opinion.

And no I don't think it is a conspiracy either. I don't think the Flames or Thrashers management really give a damn about Finland and neither am I expecting them to. What I think is going on is more of a situation where they have thought that telling the players to skip Team Finland has no real downsides apart from probably pissing the players off a bit.

Because it is Team Finland. Finland is on the other side of the Globe and the few thousands of Finnish fans that actually contribute to the bottomline of NHL franchises by buying fan gear and subscribing to the ppv etc are insignificant. Instead of conspiracy I just think that a couple of GM's figured "it's only Team Finland". What they forgot is it's also a sport. Finland was pretty great in the World Cup and I think this all has been a damn shame.

What really pisses me off about this too are some of the fans that turn a blind eye to this and woohoo about Kiprusoff being so injured that he has played more than any goaltender in the league and continues to do so. Canada is the home and birthplace of the sport, but Finland is the only - and let me repeat this for the effect - the only other country on this planet that has the passion about hockey comparable to Canada. Everywhere else hockey is second tier sport usually to soccer. They had a great run at the World Cup and played some great hockey there. And these are the guys getting screwed over and not only that some Flames fans are cheering for them getting screwed over.

That is not ******* on. That is the bottomline that I am saying. As fans of the sport we should be backing the Finns up instead of this blatant making of excuses. Sure, I can see where the Flames fans are coming. They do have a chance to go for the Cup later on. But really I think everyone should take a step back and think about what is hockey? It's a minor sport and we the fans of hockey are a pretty rare breed. This haa haa haa from other fans is not on. Any player could be injured in the tournament or in the next scheduled game in the NHL. Such things happen. From the seven nations with a more or less realistic chance of winning the Olympics Kiprusoff is the single player with the most effect on the chances of his team to be able to compete. Finns seem to have great heart and really come out hard and overachieve in these tournaments time after time but really - they have about one line of forwards, some great grinders, decent defensive unit and a great goalkeeper. Uups. Scratch that.
I can see you are pained and I perhaps even feel for you some. I will not however waiver from the fact that if Kipper wanted to play he could. There is nobody on earth that can keep him from playing. As you say he may be the NHL MVP so pissing him off seems somewhat shortsighted by the Flames don't you think? They can suggest, cajole, even threaten to break his kneecaps but Kipper is free to play for his country, finish the season, finish his contract and then head elsewhere for big money. The Flames management do not have as much influence as you seem to believe.
 
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MXD

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capn89 said:
I'll tell you, if Forsberg decides to play in the olympics as injury prone as he's been, I'll never respect the guy again. He's being paid by an organization to play and give his team everything he's got, not to prance around at the olympics (probably not get a medal... bronze at best) and possibly get injured and hurt his team.

So, only NHL'ers from Canada, Russia and Czech Republic should go to the Olympics?
 

MXD

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The only teams that should discourages some of his canadians players to go are the Leafs for McCabe, better for the interests of the both the team and the national team, as a canadian squad is obviously better with about 10 other D-Mens than McCabe.

Plus, the Leafs being a canadian team, it gives 2 reasons to cheer to their fans!
 

Phanuthier*

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helicecopter said:
First, playing ice hockey in the Olympics is a potential part of a hockey player career, skiing is not.
But if you are still following personal interests that can harm your hockey career, should you follow it?

helicecopter said:
Second, i think professional athletes' contracts has caveats that rule this issue..
Huh? This was not an annoucement from the Calgary Flames or Atlanta Thrashers. This was an annoucement from Mikka Kiprusoff and Kari Lehtonen, who were making decisions based upon their careers and career objectives. They are paid by their employee's to do a task, and have a head on their shoulders to know they must perform to the best of their abilities for the job they are paid to do.
 

Phanuthier*

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Sampe said:
Well, here's one:

A business model where the employer's union has signed an official contract to allow it. You know, like the NHL did.
The NHL signed an agreement saying that they should put Olympic interests above their own?
 

Phanuthier*

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SwisshockeyAcademy said:
I love the NHL but I am not so shortsighted as to believe that the Stanley Cup is the sports pinnacle. It is an international game that is moved forward by NHL participation in the Olympics and the NHL Owners and players union realizing it is for the greater good to put on a good show here.
Right. The NHL had no intentions of trying to market their league at all. They were trying to do it for the greater good. :propeller

SwisshockeyAcademy said:
If a player wants to play he should feel good about his participation and not worry about pressure from his club team.
An employeer has an interest in their how their business is run, and the security of their prime assets?

Get out, really?

SwisshockeyAcademy said:
If Bettman finds out that the Owners are putting undue pressure on than they should be hit heavily in their wallets.
Stupidest thing I have ever read.

Bettman is paid by the owners, and the decision to go to the Olympics was, by large, a decision made by the owners. This was a decision to market the league, a decision made by the league and its shareholders in NHL franchineses. Now Bettman should fine the people writing his cheques and making the decisions?

Rediculous

SwisshockeyAcademy said:
They will still get big contracts from somebody somewhere. Its not like these are borderline goalies worrying about job security.
Right. Tell that to the hundreads of No 1 goalies who can lose their job with just the slightest slip. It's a competitive market in the NHL, and there is no such thing as job security.
 

Phanuthier*

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Murky said:
No, I think they do have injuries. Are you in turn telling me that all players in the Olys will be 100% healthy? Turn on the TV and see that Kiprusoff is quite able to play. For further proof see the number of his starts this season so far and how many of those have been since he was declared "injured" and how many more are there to come before and after Olys. It's just a blatant excuse and such a clear case. He is playing more than any other goalie in the league for crying out loud. So sure I do think he has injury and yeah - I don't believe for one second that he wouldn't play in the O's if the Flames had not told him not to play.
Did you not read the annoucement?

Kiprusoff's hip injury is one of which you can play through, but will not heal unless you rest it. And the Flames can't afford to sit Kiprusoff for 4 weeks and miss the playoffs. They told Kiprusoff that, and that he wouldn't have time to rest, so Kiprusoff decided to skip the Olympics and use that time to rest.
 

helicecopter

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Phanuthier said:
Huh? This was not an annoucement from the Calgary Flames or Atlanta Thrashers. This was an annoucement from Mikka Kiprusoff and Kari Lehtonen, who were making decisions based upon their careers and career objectives.
:lol: :biglaugh:

btw, in case you didn't understand, the issue i was talking about was the eventuality (you brought up) of a player going out skiing while/getting injured. Don't know how your reply is related..
 
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