NHL still isn't must-see tv for Americans

Zelepukin Lives

Registered User
Jul 27, 2006
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Oregon
Hey budy I am 100% sure that if we took our the CFL champ and your NFL champ and play a two game series one in Canada with CFL rules and field and the other in the us with NFL rules and field the CFL would kick your ***. But the NFL would never have the balls to do something like that because they are affraid of loosing tho the lowly CFL. Why is it that the MLB champion are the "world champion" the same with basketball and football always the world champion" ;)

The CFL champ would have a tough time beating Ohio State, let alone the worst NFL team in the league.
 

SPARTAKUS*

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The CFL champ would have a tough time beating Ohio State, let alone the worst NFL team in the league.

Man if you really believe that you got to give your head a shake. Of course the CFL is not "american" so it's no good right??? How many CFL games have watched this season????
 

Sturminator

Love is a duel
Feb 27, 2002
9,894
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West Egg, New York
Heh. My Canadian date last weekend and I got into it over this same stupid topic. I guess I can't say with a whole lot of authority since I don't watch the CFL, but I'm pretty certain that market forces (paychecks) propel the best CFL players southward. I find it very hard to believe that the Grey Cup champion (or an all-star team, for that matter) would stand much of a chance against the Superbowl champion under any set of rules.
 

Sotnos

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Jul 8, 2002
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I DONT want to see every single freakin aspect of the game sponsered:

Here is the penalty kill brought to you by Terminix.

This face off sponsored by the Ft. Lauderdale center for plastic surgery. :banghead:
I could hear that on tv the other night. "This icing brought to you by..." I can sort of understand a PP "sponsored" by the electric company, but it sounds like everything is sponsored in Sunrise. Bizarre.

I DESPISE the noise meter and music played during stoppages. ORGAN MUSIC ONLY.
I'm with you on that. I don't even mind most of the music they play, but whyyyyy is it necessary?! I wouldn't mind being able to talk to the person next to me during stoppages. I won't even bring my dad to a game because the noise would make him nuts. Tampa has a live organist that plays a lot during games, but they could ditch the noise altogether and give him the whole night.

As for spartakus, the guy pimping the CFL here: How about you address some of the points people are bringing up to you about instead of posting this stuff?
 

Brad*

Guest
Hey budy I am 100% sure that if we took our the CFL champ and your NFL champ and play a two game series one in Canada with CFL rules and field and the other in the us with NFL rules and field the CFL would kick your ***. But the NFL would never have the balls to do something like that because they are affraid of loosing tho the lowly CFL. Why is it that the MLB champion are the "world champion" the same with basketball and football always the world champion" ;)

And I'm 100% sure that you don't have a clue. The fact that you'd rate the CFL on the same planet as the NFL shows me that you're completely out of touch.
 

Transported Upstater

Guest
Yeah, philly is good hockey city, heck I'll go one step further and say they are a better hockey city than Toronto. Why you ask? Well the AHL phantoms do really well, while the marlies draw flies. Not to mention that the flyers do really well too and everyone knows Philly is a eagles town first.



That's the problem, will it be able to sustain these hardcore fans forever? I mean I don't think it will be a problem in this decade, but even these hardcore fans can only take so much you know?

Not to hijack or anything, but as a whole, Toronto is a Leafs market more than a hockey market. Which you already know, I'm assuming.
 

Transported Upstater

Guest
Hey budy I am 100% sure that if we took our the CFL champ and your NFL champ and play a two game series one in Canada with CFL rules and field and the other in the us with NFL rules and field the CFL would kick your ***. But the NFL would never have the balls to do something like that because they are affraid of loosing tho the lowly CFL. Why is it that the MLB champion are the "world champion" the same with basketball and football always the world champion" ;)

:biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh:
 

Zelepukin Lives

Registered User
Jul 27, 2006
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Oregon
Man if you really believe that you got to give your head a shake. Of course the CFL is not "american" so it's no good right??? How many CFL games have watched this season????

The so-called "stars" of the CFL are merely a bunch of stiffs that couldn't hack it in the NFL. I'm talking about guys like Milt Stegall, Ricky Ray, Robert Edwards, Joffrey Reynolds, Jason Tucker and the list goes on.

If you're not good enough for the NFL or if you have serious drug problems (Ricky Williams) you simply head up north where the talent is much inferior.
 

espo*

Guest
CFL teams would get get beaten badly by NFL teams even playing the CFL game .They may get fortunate the first few games as the nfl team was adjusting to the different rules but once they had it all squared away they'd mow down the CFL teams.

I do however believe CFL teams could compete with teams like Ohio State,there are good players in the CFL.

NFL teams would destroy them.
 

OG6ix

Registered User
Apr 11, 2006
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You canucklehead CFL fans crack me up. One thing I always hear from CFL fans (or defenders of the league) is that the NFL is too watered down in terms of talent. Well, what does that make the CFL? The players who play in the CFL can't even get on any of the 32 teams in the "watered down league." Also the Arena Football League (as stupid as it is) has more growth oppertunities than the CFL.
 

87Penguin

Registered User
Aug 1, 2006
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Denver, CO
The NHL is a niche sport. Who cares about low TV ratings ? Here in Florida , I am more concerned about the atmosphere at games.

I DONT want to see every single freakin aspect of the game sponsered:

Here is the penalty kill brought to you by Terminix.

This face off sponsored by the Ft. Lauderdale center for plastic surgery. :banghead:

I DONT want to pay 7 dollars for a beer. Beer should be 3 dollars, thus doubling the amount of beer I can purchase.


I DESPISE the noise meter and music played during stoppages. ORGAN MUSIC ONLY.


I WANT to see fighting in a game. Its entertaining and sets hockey apart from other sports. Bettman shouldnt be trying to sanitize the game for America.

I WANT to see a rowdy, passionate crowd. Yell at the refs, jeer the goalie, bang on the glass. LETS GET CRAZY!

I NEVER want to hear somone say: "Can you sit down ?"

NO, I'M CHEERING FOR MY TEAM. I'M INTO IT. GET OUT OF YOUR SEAT AND START CHEERING.:yo:


End Rant.


Thoughts ?

Amen
 

Oilers Chick

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Jun 7, 2002
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So, let's take a look at some of the reasons.

First, ask any American sports fan who is not a hockey fan why they don't follow hockey and these are some of the answers you'll get:

1) The sport is too violent (this seems to be a very popular answer)

2) It is hard to see the puck on TV

3) There is no team remotely close to where I live

4) Never seen the game before

5) Tickets are too expensive

Second, look at how the game is marketed here in the US. You now have:

1) Many players who are not accessible to the fans, even the season ticket holders and even at the various team fan fests.

2) Lack of a national US TV contract where there are nationally televised games shown regularly on the prime night of the hockey week - Saturday.

3) The NHL's marketing of itself is more "gimmick" oriented than rather than promoting the sport itself. The NHL isn't educating people new to hockey or trying to draw further in those who are tuning in to the very first hockey game about how to follow the game and the basics of the sport.

4) Sports personalities and networks like ESPN would rather focus on reporting "sensationalism" and/or "controversial" news items (i.e. the Bertuzzi incident) rather than things such as the Crosby/Ovechkin calder race. Which sadly isn't just relegated to hockey, but to all sports.

5) The NHL is no longer just about "for the love of the game", but rather it's become a business and it's about "show me the money" or "I'm going where I can get a better deal". Players such as Steve Yzerman, who stick with one team their entire careers has already become a dying breed. With players changing teams as often as they do and as many of them that are doing it, many fans need a program just to keep with what player from last year's team has moved on and signed elsewhere.

While the hockey purists, specifically those of us who are Americans (yours truly included) will watch the sport no matter what and have no trouble following the game, etc. We aren't the ones that the NHL needs to try and reel in because we're already there. The fact is, other sports such as the NFL HAVE accessibility as well as some of the other things that I've already mentioned that the NHL (and hockey) does not.

As KJ eluded to earlier, the fact that 24 of the 30 NHL teams are based here in the US is the sole reason why the NHL and hockey has to be aggressively marketed in the US. This is where the NHL is going to make most of its money. Like or not it, that is the reality of the NHL.
 

espo*

Guest
[QUOTE the fact that 24 of the 30 NHL teams are based here in the US is the sole reason why the NHL and hockey has to be aggressively marketed in the US. This is where the NHL is going to make most of its money. Like or not it, that is the reality of the NHL.[/QUOTE]

But what to do about it? Just how do you go about educating non-fans about the sport if they can't even see a game on t.v but even if they could would not think of watching it anyway.

the nhl does'nt seem to be able to figure it out. I don't see any positive ideas from them and i'm not sure i've heard any good ideas from fans either.

Marketed yes,but in what way? how do you break into the American sports fans psyche to where hockey becomes a must see sport?


Huge challenge to say the least.
 

VOB

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Feb 27, 2002
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Man if you really believe that you got to give your head a shake. Of course the CFL is not "american" so it's no good right??? How many CFL games have watched this season????

As an avid football fan (college, CFL, NFL and heck I even watch CIS games when I can), I'm telling you that Ohio State would have no problem being a .500 team in the CFL......easily!

The NFL is simply worlds ahead of the CFL. Now I'm not saying that the CFL is not exciting to watch (heck I kind of enjoy it even more than the NFL) but the talent is simply not there to even remotely think about a CFL all star team competing against the Detroit Lions!


Now as for hockey's appeal in the U.S., well it started off as a small niche sport, developed into a fairly large niche sport and appears to be reverting back to a mid size niche sport.

Expecting anything more would only disappoint you.
 

grego

Registered User
Jan 12, 2005
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Saskatchewan
You can't easily compare CFL or NFL players because the differences in the game allow different kinds of players to succeed. also subtle things like only 3 downs means you run your offense very different. In the NFL you may be happy if you avg 4 yards a carry. In the CFL you need about 6
Also .any NFL players would need to lose weight to get speed. any linebacker that will cover receivers
 

Nols

Registered User
Sep 14, 2005
1,355
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Edmonton
So, let's take a look at some of the reasons.

First, ask any American sports fan who is not a hockey fan why they don't follow hockey and these are some of the answers you'll get:

1) The sport is too violent (this seems to be a very popular answer)

2) It is hard to see the puck on TV

3) There is no team remotely close to where I live

4) Never seen the game before

5) Tickets are too expensive

Second, look at how the game is marketed here in the US. You now have:

1) Many players who are not accessible to the fans, even the season ticket holders and even at the various team fan fests.

2) Lack of a national US TV contract where there are nationally televised games shown regularly on the prime night of the hockey week - Saturday.

3) The NHL's marketing of itself is more "gimmick" oriented than rather than promoting the sport itself. The NHL isn't educating people new to hockey or trying to draw further in those who are tuning in to the very first hockey game about how to follow the game and the basics of the sport.

4) Sports personalities and networks like ESPN would rather focus on reporting "sensationalism" and/or "controversial" news items (i.e. the Bertuzzi incident) rather than things such as the Crosby/Ovechkin calder race. Which sadly isn't just relegated to hockey, but to all sports.

5) The NHL is no longer just about "for the love of the game", but rather it's become a business and it's about "show me the money" or "I'm going where I can get a better deal". Players such as Steve Yzerman, who stick with one team their entire careers has already become a dying breed. With players changing teams as often as they do and as many of them that are doing it, many fans need a program just to keep with what player from last year's team has moved on and signed elsewhere.

While the hockey purists, specifically those of us who are Americans (yours truly included) will watch the sport no matter what and have no trouble following the game, etc. We aren't the ones that the NHL needs to try and reel in because we're already there. The fact is, other sports such as the NFL HAVE accessibility as well as some of the other things that I've already mentioned that the NHL (and hockey) does not.

As KJ eluded to earlier, the fact that 24 of the 30 NHL teams are based here in the US is the sole reason why the NHL and hockey has to be aggressively marketed in the US. This is where the NHL is going to make most of its money. Like or not it, that is the reality of the NHL.


Great post.

The unfortunate thing is that it is all about money. Nobody cares about the game anymore. That goes for any game: Football, hockey basketball... Expanding and growing the game is all that matters in our money driven society. So rather than having hockey fans enjoy hockey in markets in Cananda and the northern USA where hockey matters we are ever seeing prices go up, lockouts occur, and teams moving. It's unfortunate but it's reality.

Question: What is the problem if hockey isin't a big sport in the states?
Answer: Money. Speakes volumes of how much the game itself actually matters. I honestly don't care if nobody else outside of Cananda and northern USA wants to watch it. But unfortunately theres a buck to be made somewhere...and because of it we as hockey fans will pay.


Now this will never happen, but if the NHL really wanted to grow they would make the athletes more accessible and make games more accessible just as you said. If it was super affordable to take your family to a hockey game I'm sure more families would go and kids would then grow up watching it rather than other sports. But because of the situation that the NHL now finds itself in, it is almost impossible to drasticaly lower ticket prices and make it more accesible to more people. Now given that and TV coverage of the NHL in the States, who would be crazy enough to pay that much for a game that they don't even understand or have rarely seen.

I dunno if this is going anywhere:help:
 

arrbez

bad chi
Jun 2, 2004
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Toronto
The CFL champ would have a tough time beating Ohio State, let alone the worst NFL team in the league.

Yeah, forget about the fact that the majority of CFL starters were college standouts in the states, and the majority of players on any given college team will probably never make pro in any league. Not to mention the fact that they're grown men who play the sport for a living.

A CFL team would slaughter a college team.
 
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Jazz

Registered User
.....

5) The NHL is no longer just about "for the love of the game", but rather it's become a business and it's about "show me the money" or "I'm going where I can get a better deal". Players such as Steve Yzerman, who stick with one team their entire careers has already become a dying breed. With players changing teams as often as they do and as many of them that are doing it, many fans need a program just to keep with what player from last year's team has moved on and signed elsewhere....
Isn't this the same situation in the salary cap NFL as well?
 

Jazz

Registered User
......Question: What is the problem if hockey isin't a big sport in the states?
Answer: Money. Speakes volumes of how much the game itself actually matters. I honestly don't care if nobody else outside of Cananda and northern USA wants to watch it. But unfortunately theres a buck to be made somewhere...and because of it we as hockey fans will pay.
Also, if the NHL wants to continue to be the best hockey league in the world, they need more revenue coming in. Gate revenue is nearly maxed, so one of few remaining ways to tap more money is increased TV revenue. That is not going to come from Canada, but it will from the US.

......Now this will never happen, but if the NHL really wanted to grow they would make the athletes more accessible and make games more accessible just as you said. If it was super affordable to take your family to a hockey game I'm sure more families would go and kids would then grow up watching it rather than other sports. But because of the situation that the NHL now finds itself in, it is almost impossible to drasticaly lower ticket prices and make it more accesible to more people. Now given that and TV coverage of the NHL in the States, who would be crazy enough to pay that much for a game that they don't even understand or have rarely seen.

I dunno if this is going anywhere:help:
Also, the NHLPA members have to understand that the more they personally make themselve more accessable and market the sport, the more money comes into the NHL, and hence, that 54% the PA gets will be a higher value.
 

Ogopogo*

Guest
The CFL champ would have a tough time beating Ohio State, let alone the worst NFL team in the league.

Hmmmm.

Ricky Williams has played 10 games in the CFL and has 431 rushing yards and 2 TDs. I don't think the CFL is peewee football like you insinuate.

Do you know how many Heisman trophy winners are out of football because they couldn't make CFL teams?
 

Larionov Fan

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Dec 30, 2002
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As an avid football fan (college, CFL, NFL and heck I even watch CIS games when I can), I'm telling you that Ohio State would have no problem being a .500 team in the CFL......easily!

The NFL is simply worlds ahead of the CFL. Now I'm not saying that the CFL is not exciting to watch (heck I kind of enjoy it even more than the NFL) but the talent is simply not there to even remotely think about a CFL all star team competing against the Detroit Lions!


Now as for hockey's appeal in the U.S., well it started off as a small niche sport, developed into a fairly large niche sport and appears to be reverting back to a mid size niche sport.

Expecting anything more would only disappoint you.

This shouldn't be as big a debate as it is. It's obvious that the superior talent goes down south to the NFL, and as much as i like the CFL (i'd take any CFL game over any NFL game excluding playoffs), the talent is too much to overcome, no matter which rules you use or how big the field is.

But to say that Ohio State could beat a CFL team is ridiculous. Many of the players in the CFL hold collegiate records at their former schools. I think a team like the BC Lions would absolutely wipe the floor with any college team in the US. They are more mature, smarter, and most importantly, more talented. The college team might have a player or two who is primed for stardom in the NFL, but he is not ready to dominate yet.

So let's recap. Oakland Raiders would dominate any CFL team on most days (a CFL team has a slight shot at an upset once in a while). BC Lions would dominate any college team (a college team has no shot at an upset). It's pretty cut and dry.

That doesn't mean that any NFL player has a spot reserved in the CFL. Many of them are not cut out to play our game, where speed and mobility are key attributes.

Go Lions
 

Trottier

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Feb 27, 2002
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"Transcending personalities"? And then he mentions T.O., is that some kind of sick joke? T.O. isn't some guy who is an awesome person and makes every little boy want to be him like Jordan or somebody. The guy is a whiny punk who is a disgrace to organized sports. Sure he brings the sport attention, but for all the wrong reasons.

Good stuff. :clap:

When it comes to NHL hockey, Americans often accuse Canadians of being provincial, and on rare occasions, it is merited. However, it is Americans - US media specifcially - who are terribly provincial when it come the the NHL. A naive, perjorative (not to mention terribly outdated) stereotype exists when it comes to the topic of NHL hockey among mass media in the States. I've seen it evolve through the decades from the "they are all a bunch of lughead goons" to today's condescending mindset of "We don't talk hockey on this sports show/station."

For that and other reasons, I personally do not think that the NHL will ever be "popular" in the U.S. and I gave up worrying about it long ago. I wish it was, but not at the price of selling the sport out. That is, no lacross-size nets, no tricycles on ice and no pining for more "dynamic" personalities, thank you.

The latter is my biggest annoyance - because you hear/read such superficial observations from time to time from so called "fans" of this sport, those who should know better, but instead mimic what pop culture (ESPN) instructs them is "cool". Specifically, per your observation above, the insufferable and misguided wish for modest, well spoken and respectful NHLers to morph into egotistical reprobates....in order to better "sell the sport to casual fan". As if. :shakehead

Just me, but I prefer an athlete who can look the interviewer in the eye and articulate a sincere (if not tabloid) response. It may not be "ghetto" or "controversial" enough for some lilly white suburban 13 y/os. :sarcasm:

But it's real and works for me. :)

This is a beautiful sport with devoted and appreciative athletes. (The sterotyping of NHLers with select athletes of other sports who give off the air of entitlement is way off base, IMO.)

Much of the US does not appreciate that fact, nor ever will.

As such, waiting for good US TV ratings for the NHL is a fan's equivalent of Waiting for Godot.
 
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OG6ix

Registered User
Apr 11, 2006
4,453
1,350
Toronto
Please stop the CFL vs NFL debate, it really is laughable. Before the NFL got a tv contract a debate could have been warranted, but not anymore. I know if the NFL wanted to expand into Canada you football fans would be ecstatic (see Toronto for instance). A part of me believes that a lot of Canadians want to believe that the CFL is comparable to the NFL because they know they aren't going to get anything better.
 

espo*

Guest
Who cares anyway?.Hockey if 5 times better then NFL or CFL football.
 

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