NHL should come back with a 45 million salary cap offer

[alecfromtherock]

While 45 million might be much higher then the NHL’s salary cap proposal, it covers the majority of teams(based on 2003-2004 team salaries )

45 million is the mean average(rounded up) for 2003-2004

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18 out of 30 NHL teams (60%) were under the 45 million mark last season. None of the players on the teams under the salary cap would need a rollback in their pay.

The players on the 18 teams could actually see a pay increase because there is some manoeuvring room with those teams.

The Vancouver Canucks(13th in salary) had a salary of $42,074,500, under a 45 million cap they could spend an additional $2,925,500 on their players to reach the maximum.

Boston is just barely over the cap at $46,569,000 and would have to cut $1,369,000 of salary to make the cap.

The teams that were 1-7 in highest salaries would need some major renovations in order to achieve the 45 million cap. Detroit, being the highest salary at $77,856,100 would have to cut $32,856,100 to reach the cap.

Another way of looking at it is the $32 million salary cut is more money then the bottom 6 teams salaries are.

Here is a question: How can the teams far over the cap cut that much pay without voiding all of there existing contracts? The players were willing to take 24% rollback in their offer, the high teams would have to cut up-to 42% of their current salaries. Does anyone have ideas on how the top salary teams would make any cap?

45 million might still be too steep for teams such as Nashville (30th, last in salary) $21,932,500, to fairly compete for players from the higher salary teams.

Not all of the top paid players will have their pay garnished under a 45 million cap.

Take for instance Alexie Yashin of the Islanders and Jarome Iginla of the Flames.

The top 25 players can not expect to keep their current salaries under a cap of 45 million, the average salary will eventually drop over time.

Teams slightly over the 45 million cap from the Los Angeles Kings to the Boston Bruins(5) will have an easier time reaching the 45 million cap. That makes 23/30(76%) teams that can accept a salary cap with little concessions.

If the top teams can’t or aren’t able to live under a cap, then a 23 team NHL league will have to do until the contracts run out for the other 7 teams.

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[Lanny MacDonald*]

So the players deserve 67% of revenues? Keep dreaming.

 

[nyr7andcounting]

Some valid points, but as you said the average salary for a team this year was around $45 million, which was too high. Creating a salary cap there would only force some teams to cut a bunch of players, but as you said teams under that cap would have the money to sign those guys that got cut. Obviously the overall level of salaries would lower somewhat, but not enough.

 

[Blind Gardien]

One thing the players had better be aware of is that the best ceiling for a cap they will ever get is right now. We won't see a hard figure like "45 million" or "40 million" slapped down on the table, because it has to be tied to the overall revenue of the league. But if 56% of league revenues works out to $38M cap per team right now, this is the time to accept it, if they ever could. With a wrecked league after next year, 56% of league revenues will work out to a cap value much much lower than $38M, and it will take a long time for it to recover, if it ever does.

 

[Bring Back Bucky]

What about the teams well under that cap who can't make money??

 

[Brent Burns Beard]

What about the teams well under that cap who can't make money??

if the owners in PHI, TOR, DAL, VAN and elsewhere cared about EDM, CRL and NSH, they could have solved that issue months ago without a lockout.

the owners dont care about Karmanos, why should we ?

dr

 

[Bring Back Bucky]

if the owners in PHI, TOR, DAL, VAN and elsewhere cared about EDM, CRL and NSH, they could have solved that issue months ago without a lockout.

the owners dont care about Karmanos, why should we ?

dr

I don't care about Karamnos, but I care about myself and other fans of teams that don't get their problems solved by a 45million dollar cap.

 

[mooseOAK*]

What about the teams well under that cap who can't make money??

The difference between making or not making money to a lot of teams is whether they make the playoffs or not. Even with the new CBA there will be teams in the red.

Again the issue is cost control, not guaranteeing evry team a profit.

 

[nyr7andcounting]

What about the teams well under that cap who can't make money??

They are a mistake Bettman made that can't be fixed. They can fold or they can continue to lose money, their choice.

 

[Brent Burns Beard]

I don't care about Karamnos, but I care about myself and other fans of teams that don't get their problems solved by a 45million dollar cap.

what do you think your problems are ? do you think there is a way for the owners to solve that problem that doesnt involve cancelling a season ?

if there is even 1 way to solve your problems without cancelling a season, shouldnt you expect the owners to go with that first ?

or maybe what you see as a problem isnt what the owners are trying to solve/acheive with this lockout.

dr

 

[Bring Back Bucky]

They are a mistake Bettman made that can't be fixed. They can fold or they can continue to lose money, their choice.

Great idea, when 250 jobs are eliminated we'll see how fast players are willing to sign contracts at a fraction of their current numbers.

 

[CarlRacki]

Great idea, when 250 jobs are eliminated we'll see how fast players are willing to sign contracts at a fraction of their current numbers.

Yep. This is the ultimate contradiction of the PA. They're fighting for a system that will likely cause some teams to fold and therefore cost its members jobs (and its union dues and power). Heck, some (i.e. Chelios) are even advocating contraction.
I've never been one to say the PA only cares about its star players, but this provides those who do with plenty of ammo.

 

[Bring Back Bucky]

what do you think your problems are ? do you think there is a way for the owners to solve that problem that doesnt involve cancelling a season ?

if there is even 1 way to solve your problems without cancelling a season, shouldnt you expect the owners to go with that first ?

or maybe what you see as a problem isnt what the owners are trying to solve/acheive with this lockout.

dr

You see, I don't think I have a problem at all. As an Edmonton Oilers fan, I don't really give a rat's behind about the NHL, just the Oilers. The Oilers haven't been able to compete for things like ufa's on an even playing field under the last cba, and I'd like to see that changed. I'm not interested in 500 posts about the Oilers being limited by bad drafting, trading , whatever, because we've been through that before. It just gets frustrating every year knowing that the Oilers won't be signing the Kovalevs or Amontes or even Hulls in the summer. I also firmtly believe the owners put themselves in the current position with their foolish spending. However, from my selfish point of view, I couldn't care less what it takes, I would like to see a cba that is more favorable to the team I CARE ABOUT. I know that may offend some hockey purists who feel it's all about the GAME, but for me if it's just about the GAME, I will go to Q-League games for 20 bucks and have a great time. For me, NHL equals Oilers. No Oilers, no NHL. So please, let me clarify, I'm not trying to give an economics lesson or a pro-owner rant. I responded to a question about why we should care about EDM when the owners don't. I do because I have for 25 years, the Oilers were a big part of the magic of my childhood. There's no facts to argue back and forth, and I couldn't care less who does or does not agree with me, they are my feelings only, and as such belong only to me. To me, it's okay if some of you don't care if the Oilers, Kings, Panthers or any other team are gone. If you have no emotional vesting in a team in jeopardy, that's fine and I can understand it. They could shut down the NFL and NBA tommorrow forever and I wouldn't even know it had happened. But I bet lots of people would be pretty damned upset. You could lose your job tommorrow, your wife could leave you, or the doctor could call and ask you to come in about the blood tests you had last week asap. None of those events would cause a disturbance in my sleep or appetite, but I bet you'd be pretty emotionally involved in any of them... As such, please let us care. And please, no analysis of personnel moves by the Oilers, I'm not claiming they would have won 8 cups if things had been different in the cba, just suggesting that some cost certainty below a number like 45 million is needed to let them use the same tools as are available to some other clubs. My rant and opinions only.

 

[Brent Burns Beard]

... It just gets frustrating every year knowing that the Oilers won't be signing the Kovalevs or Amontes or even Hulls in the summer.

1) what makes you think those guys would choose EDM with everything else being equal ?

2) what makes you think they will help your team ? Other than Hull, those other two have done nothing to justify there salary, even if EDM signed them for half what they actually did get.

...
My rant and opinions only.

thanks for the effort.

dr

 

[Bring Back Bucky]

1) what makes you think those guys would choose EDM with everything else being equal ?

2) what makes you think they will help your team ? Other than Hull, those other two have done nothing to justify there salary, even if EDM signed them for half what they actually did get.



thanks for the effort.

dr

'
1) Didn't say they would.

2) Didn't say they would.

Thanks for your kindness, your appreciation of my effort means an awful lot to me. Maybe someday I can be as witty as you.

 

[Brent Burns Beard]

'
1) Didn't say they would.

2) Didn't say they would.

Thanks for your kindness, your appreciation of my effort means an awful lot to me. Maybe someday I can be as witty as you.

why the sarcasm ?

anyhow, if you want a system that allows you to sign the Kovalev's, but dont know if they would actualyl sign with you nor if they would do any good. what are you missing by not getting that system ?

Sather said if he just had money, he could have built a winner in EDM. Maybe the problems of EDM arent money related ?

dr

 

[Bring Back Bucky]

why the sarcasm ?

anyhow, if you want a system that allows you to sign the Kovalev's, but dont know if they would actualyl sign with you nor if they would do any good. what are you missing by not getting that system ?

Sather said if he just had money, he could have built a winner in EDM. Maybe the problems of EDM arent money related ?

dr

No sarcasm intended, just sharing the love.

I want a system that enables all teams a fair shot at ufa's. They will go different places for different reasons, but I'd like to at least be able to speculate and hope during the summer months. I think largely signings in the last cba were heavily influenced by money, not by the number of Denny's locations in a city. A new economic system with salary restraints likely wouldn't see ludicrous offers like 9 million for Bobby Holik. At 3 million he might have been a good fit in Edmonton.

Again, as I indicated, past threads here will show plenty of evaluation of the trading and drafting of the Oilers. Speculating how they would have done, as I have stated, is a fool's errand, and I concede a free agent signing wouldn't have seen them lift any cups either. I also don't feel inclined to argue about the merits of Glen Sather, he's gone and out of mind. What I am saying is I'd like the Oilers be able to participate. Whether they choose to do so, and whether they do so poorly or well is moot for now. I just want it to be a viable source of players for all clubs.

 

[arnie]

Yep. This is the ultimate contradiction of the PA. They're fighting for a system that will likely cause some teams to fold and therefore cost its members jobs (and its union dues and power). Heck, some (i.e. Chelios) are even advocating contraction.
I've never been one to say the PA only cares about its star players, but this provides those who do with plenty of ammo.

Some one reported that Goodenow has already said in private that he doesn't believe than any teams will fold, regardless of the CBA. Goodenow said that there has always been some sucker to come along and to buy teams in trouble and there always will. That's why he is willing to play chicken with potential job loss for the NHLPA.

 

[nyr7andcounting]

Great idea, when 250 jobs are eliminated we'll see how fast players are willing to sign contracts at a fraction of their current numbers.

250? You think they would contract 10 teams? Are you crazy?

If 4 teams left the league it would be a good thing. There is no reason for 10, but 4 would be fine. It would help on the ice, but even more off of it.

 

[hockeytown9321]

So the players deserve 67% of revenues? Keep dreaming.

Th all powerful and great NFL cap gives football players 65%.

 

[SENSible1*]

Th all powerful and great NFL cap gives football players 65%.

Which just happens to be covered by the TV contract. When the NHL has a similar TV contract, players can make a similar %.

 

[Bring Back Bucky]

250? You think they would contract 10 teams? Are you crazy?

If 4 teams left the league it would be a good thing. There is no reason for 10, but 4 would be fine. It would help on the ice, but even more off of it.

Where does your magic number of 4 come from??? And by the way, you don't need to contract anywhere near 10 teams to eliminate 250 player contracts.

Please don't ask if I'm crazy, firstly, it's none of your business. Secondly, it reflects very poor manners.

 

[nyr7andcounting]

Where does your magic number of 4 come from??? And by the way, you don't need to contract anywhere near 10 teams to eliminate 250 player contracts.

Please don't ask if I'm crazy, firstly, it's none of your business. Secondly, it reflects very poor manners.

I get 4 from the 4 teams that have been added the last 2 expansion "rounds". 26 is a good number for the NHL, I believe there are about 4 too many teams in markets that they don't need to be.

Secondly, can you please explain to me how you eliminate 250 player contracts than? And don't tell me that contracting 8 teams would also contract about 100 AHL jobs, because they aren't contracting 8 teams either. So please, gimme your math here cause it just doesn't make sense.

 

[A Good Flying Bird*]

You see, I don't think I have a problem at all. As an Edmonton Oilers fan, I don't really give a rat's behind about the NHL, just the Oilers. The Oilers haven't been able to compete for things like ufa's on an even playing field under the last cba, and I'd like to see that changed. I'm not interested in 500 posts about the Oilers being limited by bad drafting, trading , whatever, because we've been through that before. It just gets frustrating every year knowing that the Oilers won't be signing the Kovalevs or Amontes or even Hulls in the summer. I also firmtly believe the owners put themselves in the current position with their foolish spending. However, from my selfish point of view, I couldn't care less what it takes, I would like to see a cba that is more favorable to the team I CARE ABOUT. I know that may offend some hockey purists who feel it's all about the GAME, but for me if it's just about the GAME, I will go to Q-League games for 20 bucks and have a great time. For me, NHL equals Oilers. No Oilers, no NHL. So please, let me clarify, I'm not trying to give an economics lesson or a pro-owner rant. I responded to a question about why we should care about EDM when the owners don't. I do because I have for 25 years, the Oilers were a big part of the magic of my childhood. There's no facts to argue back and forth, and I couldn't care less who does or does not agree with me, they are my feelings only, and as such belong only to me. To me, it's okay if some of you don't care if the Oilers, Kings, Panthers or any other team are gone. If you have no emotional vesting in a team in jeopardy, that's fine and I can understand it. They could shut down the NFL and NBA tommorrow forever and I wouldn't even know it had happened. But I bet lots of people would be pretty damned upset. You could lose your job tommorrow, your wife could leave you, or the doctor could call and ask you to come in about the blood tests you had last week asap. None of those events would cause a disturbance in my sleep or appetite, but I bet you'd be pretty emotionally involved in any of them... As such, please let us care. And please, no analysis of personnel moves by the Oilers, I'm not claiming they would have won 8 cups if things had been different in the cba, just suggesting that some cost certainty below a number like 45 million is needed to let them use the same tools as are available to some other clubs. My rant and opinions only.

And this is where a luxury tax woul help.
It wouldn't completely limit a player's ability or a team's ability to go out and spend over a certain limit.
But teams that did so would pay dearly to do so, and smaller teams would reap the benefits.

 

[Bring Back Bucky]

I get 4 from the 4 teams that have been added the last 2 expansion "rounds". 26 is a good number for the NHL, I believe there are about 4 too many teams in markets that they don't need to be.

Secondly, can you please explain to me how you eliminate 250 player contracts than? And don't tell me that contracting 8 teams would also contract about 100 AHL jobs, because they aren't contracting 8 teams either. So please, gimme your math here cause it just doesn't make sense.

Let's start with the basics;

24 man roster (no idea if this is correct
5 men on injured reserve
15 in the AHL paid by NHL affiliate
8 signed juniors returned to their clubs

That's 52 per team. Yes, I am probably off by a few here and there. However, the point is contraction costs jobs.

Thanks for clarifying where you got the figure of 4 teams since that was the last round of expansion. Why not contract all 9 franchises that have been awarded from the nineties on. You feel entitled to ask me to "gimme" my math, so please, explain why you "feel" that 26 is such a magic numjber. What are the four markets, and why? Their fanbases would undoubtedly love to know where you're coming from.